Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
I inherited lousy tenants in a property (year lease) who are threatening to sue me for a slip down the stairs. She didn't seem injured but yadayada had to go to the doctors and did xrays yadayada. Now they're saying subtly (but really not so subtly) that if I can do "something" for them they won't have to press charges, otherwise, they will. In other words they want free pay day.
I have insurance but don't want to deal with the trouble and any rate change it may cause. Should I offer them cash to be quiet? Free rent for 2 months? Nice improvements to the unit?
OR ... Should I threaten back very subtly that I can make things "less enjoyable" for them (and any ideas on that? Noise complaint warnings? No mercy with rent collection? Parking rules change?)?
Real Estate Investor · Grand Junction, IA · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 51 votes
12y
I wouldn't pay anything. You attempting to be a good person or provide a nice gesture may be seen in court as an admittance of guilt. As in why would you pay anything if it wasn't your fault. ? If your state has an easy way to search court records I would see id they have a history of frivolous court filings. Have your attorney handle any issue that arises legally.
Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2010 · 72 posts · 21 votes
12y
@Matt Liu I would report this to my insurance carrier immediately. The most benign appearing situation can quickly escalate out of control. Trying to save premium dollars on the front end can cost you everything you own and more if it blows up. Not reporting the claim and attempting to negotiate a settlement on your own can also jeopardize the insurance coverage you have. I handled insurance claims for a number of years. Let the professionals deal with this. There are too many unknowns and trick bags to fall into.
Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
12y
Thanks everyone!! As far as ways to push her out, can I post a warning letter for violating the lease? Can I add to the house rules anything reasonable that does not involved new charges or anything unreasonable?
Thanks everyone!! As far as ways to push her out, can I post a warning letter for violating the lease? Can I add to the house rules anything reasonable that does not involved new charges or anything unreasonable?
I notice your BP profile is not complete. How long have you been a landlord and how many holdings do you have? Many people took the time to answer your question and gave you some sound advice. It seems you are set on going your own direction regardless. If you haven't studied the landlord-tenant laws for your jurisdiction, you had better do so. You'll find the answer to your latest question there. Some tenancies can be saved and others can not be. I wish you and your tenant well. Hopefully you can resolve your differences amicably. As I read your posts on the matter, your intent seems questionable and your approach is disturbing. Be careful.
Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
12y
Marcia, thank you for your email. I am just seeing if there are ways I can end the lease seeing as they are being litigious and using threats. I don't really want to a tenant like that especially living in my own house.
Marcia, thank you for your email. I am just seeing if there are ways I can end the lease seeing as they are being litigious and using threats. I don't really want to a tenant like that especially living in my own house.
You need to take things a little less personal. This is a business. They are being litigious and using threats, yes you should keep a closer eye on what they are doing, but they are still paying you to live there. And yes, you should notify your insurance company. You should have immediately and let them handle it. This puts distance between you and the problem. Makes it less personal and more business.
Rental Property Investor · Safford, AZ · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 19 votes
12y
I would suggest contacting your insurance company, NOW. They have an interest in this as it could escalate to them if you are sued. If you look at the policy contract there are duties you have as an insured. One is to notify the company as soon as is practical, usually they are asking for notification that there could be something, then clearly they want notification of summons. Muddling around trying to avoid a premium increase could get you deeper in to trouble, or open a door for a company to deny the claim (e.g. You didn't notify us, and therefore we couldn't take the proper steps).
Also there is coverage for Medical payments which in most states is a no-fault coverage. Meaning no admission of guilt, but let us take care of you, so you don't sue us. The insurance company will have a process to protect them and you. In your policy there will probably be a section under the liability conditions that states, "Duties of an Injured Person." They would have to provide proof of claim under oath, provide copies of Medical reports, etc. etc.
Insurance companies are experts, let them be the experts. Knowing that they are not dealing with you, but rather a team from a large insurance company may changes the tune.
Finally, a lot of policies will say something like this (from the same conditions area): "An insured will not, except at the insured's down cost, voluntarily make payment, assume obligation or incur expense other than for first aid to others at the time of the bodily injury."
In the most conservative stance you could read this as, go in it alone, you are on you own later, get us involved and you have our backing. Some may argue this, but if you start making concessions without the company you are opening a door.
In the end your premiums won't go up if they don't pay out, and if they do pay out, they were probably going to have to anyway and your premiums were going up anyway (meaning that suit was going to happen anyway). It may be once the carrier is notified that they will say sit on it until you actually get sued, but at least then you have done what you need to do.
Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
12y
Thank you everybody so much. This really helps me. I really learned a lot.
I did read my policy and it says somewhat vaguely that I must notify them if there "could be a claim". Now my tenant never wrote me an actual letter or showed any documentation. They just verbally threatened to sue. Should I still tell insurance?
Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2011 · 252 posts · 56 votes
12y
You said there was a legal railing. How did she fall and do you think you are at fault? I'm realizing as I'm writing this that you probably shouldn't even answer that question. Talk to your lawyer...he she will advise you.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
Has she been continuing to threaten you since you first posted this? If you haven't heard anything from her again, this is probably a non-issue.
Please take Troy's advice and not take this personally.
As for ending the lease, unless the lease has already ended and is now month-to-month, you can't just willy-nilly end the lease. There has to be non-payment of rent or some other violation--and good luck proving other violations in court.
Stop wasting your energy on this. Just quietly collect your rent and a month before the lease is up, KINDLY let her know that it will not be renewed.
Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
12y
Well I've been polite this whole time. She hasn't mentioned it. I've done my best to be a good landlord all around - fixing things and doing several need updates to their unit and the house. I assumed she dropped it.
Then the other day she said she did actually go through with the suit and the "lawyer came and took pictures". Again she offered for me to "split the bill of $2,000" which she couldn't show me at the time.
Immediately after that - her telling me that she did actually file suit - I notified my insurance company and they said the adjuster will be getting back to me soon.
They said I will want to collect info from her about her attorney, the exact date of incident, and copies of medical records/bills. I'm waiting to hear from adjuster to find out exactly what I need to collect from her.
I'm also still sensing she may be bluffing but it's very hard to tell. So I'm going to continue not taking it personally, being a good landlord, and considering it a real matter that now is an official insurance claim.
Any other suggestions. Timely check-in post Troy, as this matter just got inflated.
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
I bet she is still bluffing. I doubt a "lawyer came and took pictures." You did the right thing by contacting your insurance company at this point. Good that you are being polite and professional. Continue to document everything. At this juncture, I would also advise you have any interaction with the tenant witnessed by a third party and communications in writing. This will protect you from a "he said, she said" situation.
Investor · Rocktown, IL · Member since 2012 · 238 posts · 69 votes
12y
Call your insurance when this type of thing happens -- you did yourself no favors by waiting. In effect, you essentially allowed the tenant to decide when it was a "real matter".
Also...taking you at your word and nothing was in disrepair, I don't then see where there was negligence on your part. Laws vary by location, but there is always a list of conditions that must be met before liability will stick.
Well I've been polite this whole time. She hasn't mentioned it. I've done my best to be a good landlord all around - fixing things and doing several need updates to their unit and the house. I assumed she dropped it.
Then the other day she said she did actually go through with the suit and the "lawyer came and took pictures". Again she offered for me to "split the bill of $2,000" which she couldn't show me at the time.
Immediately after that - her telling me that she did actually file suit - I notified my insurance company and they said the adjuster will be getting back to me soon.
They said I will want to collect info from her about her attorney, the exact date of incident, and copies of medical records/bills. I'm waiting to hear from adjuster to find out exactly what I need to collect from her.
I'm also still sensing she may be bluffing but it's very hard to tell. So I'm going to continue not taking it personally, being a good landlord, and considering it a real matter that now is an official insurance claim.
Any other suggestions. Timely check-in post Troy, as this matter just got inflated.
Thanks.
I hope that by not bringing it up to you insurance company immediately that you don't find yourself in an awkward position later. And I definitely wouldn't not let the notion that she is bluffing float around in your head. This needs to be a #1 Priority to train her that if she is going to make complaints like this that you are going to move quickly and swiftly and aren't going to "Split the bill".
I inherited lousy tenants in a property (year lease) who are threatening to sue me for a slip down the stairs. She didn't seem injured but yadayada had to go to the doctors and did xrays yadayada. Now they're saying subtly (but really not so subtly) that if I can do "something" for them they won't have to press charges, otherwise, they will. In other words they want free pay day.
I have insurance but don't want to deal with the trouble and any rate change it may cause. Should I offer them cash to be quiet? Free rent for 2 months? Nice improvements to the unit?
OR ... Should I threaten back very subtly that I can make things "less enjoyable" for them (and any ideas on that? Noise complaint warnings? No mercy with rent collection? Parking rules change?)?
Thanks!!
We had/have quite a few people (always low income), trying to sue us and we get sued at least 3 times per year for any type of BS tenants say and we always win. I would never recommend paying to anybody before the court, because if you pay once, you will be asked to be paid again and again.
We tell tenants that want to sue us to contact our attorney and remind them that if they loose the case we counter sue them for legal fees. It stops 97% of them.
Yes, sometimes it's easier and less time consuming to pay a tenant to solve the case and have them sign a covenant not to sue, but all ''professional'' tenants know the tricks and get free legal aid, so it's free for them to sue somebody. Make sure that you have enough insurance and be bold! Otherwise these ''blood suckers'' will suck you dry.
Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2012 · 127 posts · 10 votes
11y
That's a great piece of advice Pavel. Of course, it's not likely I'll have any legal expense if insurance takes care of it all.
The things that also bugs me is that even though they never sued (the incident was in July) they could just be waiting until they move out in Feb ...to keep good with me while they have me as their landlord. Have you had any experience with people waiting until much later during the 3 year statue of limitations to exercise their right to sue?
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
Either way, I bet you can't wait until end of Dec/early January to send that Notice to Vacate because you obviously won't be renewing the Lease!
If they're like most talkers, they won't sue at any point in time. You did nothing wrong--and hopefully not talking negatively/threatening to them--so you should have nothing to worry about.
At this juncture, I would also advise you have any interaction with the tenant witnessed by a third party and communications in writing. This will protect you from a "he said, she said" situation.
Marcia... this is excellent advice! I didn't even think about that. But now I'm wondering... would you or anyone else have an opinion of video or audio recording interaction with the tenant? Of course you would have to get consent but do you think they would agree? Do you think it would cause a negative reaction with the tenant or make the situation worse? I'm thinking I would just tell the tenant that I was going to video or audio record the conversation for documentation purposes and then provide them with a copy for their records. Thoughts?
At this juncture, I would also advise you have any interaction with the tenant witnessed by a third party and communications in writing. This will protect you from a "he said, she said" situation.
Marcia... this is excellent advice! I didn't even think about that. But now I'm wondering... would you or anyone else have an opinion of video or audio recording interaction with the tenant? Of course you would have to get consent but do you think they would agree? Do you think it would cause a negative reaction with the tenant or make the situation worse? I'm thinking I would just tell the tenant that I was going to video or audio record the conversation for documentation purposes and then provide them with a copy for their records. Thoughts?
Video or audio recording a conversation automatically puts the tenant on alert. They may react in defensive posture or it may incite them to make another offensive move. I try not to stir the pot. I just document as I go with my own notes that go into the tenant file, just in case I need to revisit the interaction at a later date. Unless there is a justifiable need for me to make an audio or video of a conversation, I would not do it. The least interaction the better. A better approach might be to ask the tenant to put their concerns in writing and to respond in writing. This gives both parties more time for reflection. If I did audio or video tape I would inform the other party, but I would not provide them with a copy. People hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see. I would do my best not to give them more fuel for the fire.