Rental Property Investor · Bedminster, NJ · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 5 votes
Hi all,
I have a situation where a tenant of 3 months has not paid his November rent. Our property manager has called, emailed, and shown up at the door trying to hunt him down to get an answer but got no response. A note is on the door to call the property manager immediately. The tenant did not pay on the first of the month, and then gave an excuse and a promise to pay last Friday, but never showed up with the money and has now not responded to us.
We'd like to file an eviction. The property manager told us that if we file a ten day notice to pay rent or quit, we could then file with the court.
However, due to the holidays approaching, the first hearing would be December 3rd. After that, there is a moratorium until after the holdiays, and eviction could not be performed until January 2015. We can handle the attorney fees, but we want to give the tenant as little time as possible to destroy the property.
Question is, do we post the ten day notice now and proceed to evict? Or, do we wait until January, hope to collect for November and December, and eat the loss? Any other options, like paying the tenant to leave?
FYI, the tenant doesn't have great credit history and gave us problems on the first month citing a water issue as to why he withheld rent. We want him out, help!
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
This does not sound like a tenancy that can be saved, so don't delay. Post the pay or quit notice now. Also, at the same time, post a legal notice to enter the unit... for "maintenance". I always do that, especially when a tenant is avoiding me. It forces a face-to-face and gives you a look at the unit. If you want to try cash-for-keys and your tenant goes for it, you might have him out by the end of this month. Otherwise keep your eye on the property and your eye on the goal. You will still have some time after you serve the pay or quit notice to try to convince the tenant to pay rent and the notice itself sometimes will kick-start a tenant into paying. But the reality is, once it has passed mid-month rarely will you see a tenant catch up on rent.
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
This does not sound like a tenancy that can be saved, so don't delay. Post the pay or quit notice now. Also, at the same time, post a legal notice to enter the unit... for "maintenance". I always do that, especially when a tenant is avoiding me. It forces a face-to-face and gives you a look at the unit. If you want to try cash-for-keys and your tenant goes for it, you might have him out by the end of this month. Otherwise keep your eye on the property and your eye on the goal. You will still have some time after you serve the pay or quit notice to try to convince the tenant to pay rent and the notice itself sometimes will kick-start a tenant into paying. But the reality is, once it has passed mid-month rarely will you see a tenant catch up on rent.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
Never wait. Marcia's advice is spot on. File now, even with the moratorium.
Also--as mentioned--post a Notice that you'll be entering the unit. Usually you only need a 24 hour notice for this. After that notice period, go there, knock loudly first and announce yourself. If no answer, go on in. That is your property! They might not be there, but at least you get to see how the place looks.
Usually, one can't legally withhold rent just by verbally saying you haven't made needed repairs. What kind of water issue anyway? It has to be a good issue and it has to be filed with the courts, where he should be paying his rent into an escrow account. Don't even worry about his claims. He's just fumbling to try to buy more time under someone's roof.
Do leave the cash for keys offer. Maybe offer something like $200 if he signs the offer by a certain date and LEAVES by a certain date. Remember, he doesn't get a dime until he is out and hands those keys to you. Then, you be sure to give him a receipt (and a copy of that receipt for yourself)!
Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
11y
Another reason why we do shared housing - multiple streams of income on one unit and we control the common areas so you can't dodge us. File immediately and get him out. These are challenging times for a ton of renters and the nicest people will do the darnedest things! Check with your local laws to see if you can even do a "knock & enter" and look to your lease to see how this is addressed. In most jurisdictions, you can't enter your rental unit unless there is some sort of emergency. Welcome to landlording!
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
Yes, definitely know all your local laws and know them well. Some areas don't even allow the landlord to accept a partial rent payment but continue with the eviction process. I personally find that outrageous, but whatever. Know your area laws to play the game right!
Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
11y
@Handie Kunen Just to give you a basis for the kind of landlord I am please see the form I just posted "I like my tenants" I really like most of my tenants HOWEVER two years ago I had a tenant who flooded her apartment with a overflowing toilet, the problem literally took 10 minutes to fix (clog+constant water supply from tank=flood) by the time the neighboring unit called the water was all over her bedroom, the hallway of the 4-plex and a small section of the neighboring unit (the neighbor who called) so cleanup took 4 hours (not a big deal right?).
The tenant had just caught up on 2 months of late rent and it happened 5 days before Thanksgiving, she was receiving disability and had her daughter and her infant granddaughter were living with her. Clearly a "good landlord" would let this one slide right? I filed an emergency eviction which resulted in the sherrif escorting her off of the property the day after thanksgiving (6 day from file to eviction since I proved in court that she was a hazard to the property) I have little doubt she was homeless for the holiday and I have no regrets.
I am not a monster, again please see my post "I like my tenants" if this post would lead you to believe I am a scumbag.
The truth of the matter is I believe with 99.9% certainty that my tenant and her daughter and the gentlemen who were staying the night were using drugs/alcohol to the point that they could not identify a small problem for at least 12 hours. If I let it slide I would have been putting the three other families in the building in danger as well as the infant child. I dont play "God" however if I see a lifestyle problem it is my job to protect all of my tenants and if that means making someone homeless for the holidays I am fine with that.
Many years ago I had a family of 5 evicted from an apartment on Christmas Eve due to failure to pay rent.
If a tenant came to my home and put a gun to my head, demanding $1,000 I would report it to the police... Regardless of the holidays. As a landlord you are a very easy target and horrible people will use the holidays as a way of stealing thousands without the fear of repercussion. If you do not correct the issue you are helping this person learn that it is okay to steal from landlords. Does this make sense?
Experience will teach you the difference between someone is trying and someone stealing. If this guy has no credit and a history chances are good that he is just a thief... Since you cannot send him to jail for the holidays at least make him homeless.
Glen Allen, VA · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 11 votes
11y
@Handie Peng
If he doesn't have good credit then I'm assuming he is used to not paying. Waiting doesn't get you anything and I would start the eviction. This will let him know you are serious about kicking him out and if he has the money, he may even pay.
Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
11y
Where are we in the month now? Seems like this tenant is playing you and your management company. The management company should have been more proactive in this situation. I would be taking a close look at them.
Real Estate Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 236 posts · 328 votes
11y
I agree with the Cash for Keys offer. You are going to lose a month's rent because they can't be evicted during the holidays, and it could be longer if they find a way to delay it again. With the Cash for Keys offer, they are gone, haven't damaged your property, the eviction fees stop and you get a better tenant in there who won't be giving you unneeded headaches during the holidays.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
We've evicted a couple of times in NJ, with a 3 Day Pay or Quit. Not sure why your PM told you it was a 10 Day Notice. How was he counting the days? Or is your property in another state? I use an attorney who specializes in landlord/tenant law for evictions.
Definitely file immediately. If a tenant doesn't pay the rent on time and you have to chase him, that's red flag #1. If a tenant stops communicating, that's the final red flag. Post the notice immediately.
We evicted a tenant over the Labor Day holiday about 5 years ago. The holiday added another 2 weeks to the process, making the eviction take 8 weeks instead of 6.
The longer you wait, the more you lose. I know it's nerve wracking to wonder how much damage a tenant can do, but they can do it all in one day, so no point in worrying about how long they'll be in there. Easier said than done of course. We once evicted a tenant we were sure would trash the place, and she didn't. She had a job and was collectible....she didn't seem to care about being evicted, but possibly drew the line at being destructive.
We've had tenants that refuse entry even with proper notice. They threatened and cursed about having us come in. We let them know we would call the police and have a civil standby, and we did that once. Never go alone.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
11y
When you go to do the inspection, have a third party with you such as a contractor or handyman - that gives you a maintenance person for the maintenance inspection, and a witness as well.
Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
11y
I am starting to think this cash for keys solution is probably becoming a problem. It's like Pavlov's dog. Because we want you out of our lives, not only have you not paid rent, but now I need to reward you for becoming a professional Tenant.
We are causing our own problems as landlords by continuing to reward bad behavior.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
I agree with your thinking, @Troy Fisher , but sometimes it's actually cheaper to get them out asap with this cash for keys than it is to wait for the legal system to get them out. You could be collecting rent from a new tenant much sooner. Cash for Keys are a short offer; they aren't given a lot of time to decide and act on these.
It's never cheaper to allow a tenant to run over you as a landlord. For instance, assuming you had collected a security deposit on this cash for keys situation, what are the legal ramifications? If you file an eviction and go through court, you can use the deposit to repair the property. Can you if they decide to fight it? I heard from some Chicago People that if you mis-calculate the security deposit the tenant can counter-sue you for upto 3x the amount of the deposit! If they do excessive or malignant damage to the property after you have done a walk thru with a third party you can sue them for damages.
Also, by promoting this behavior in tenants they avoid having evictions filed on their record and you are just passing the problem along to someone else. Do the tenants learn this? Did he move in knowing he wasn't going to pay rent and could either live there for free through the holidays, or be offered $$ to walk out the door? He already withheld a month for 'water problems'.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
You're right and make valid points. That is a good question regarding the cash for keys and security deposit; I'll ask my lawyer regarding that here in Baltimore County. Most likely the lawyer will say there is nothing written about it, so I suppose it'd be up to the judge. But the Tenant did sign a cash for keys offer stating they agreed to this situation. In fact, the time I offered it, it did include that they are aware and understand they will not receive their Security Deposit. It does state that the Eviction process will be stopped so it's not on their record, so that's what they get out of it. I would be willing to fight for that agreement in court if someone had the audacity to go to court over it. The time I offered cash for keys, I had already started the eviction process and did not start it until the offer was complete...but they never took it, so got eviction anyway.
I know a landlord who has been doing this for decades, so you'd think he'd know how to choose a good tenant. Instead, he is routinely taking terrible tenants who don't pay rent and have prior evictions. Landlords like him for some reason just don't care. I don't get it. No wonder he's selling most of his properties...
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
I would agree with @Troy Fisher for the most part. It sets up the landlord for a possible shakedown scenario, where the tenant now understands you'll pay to get rid of them; how much and how quickly can now be negotiated. And that itself can be a stall tactic.
In states where it can take months to get a tenant out if they file appeals, it might be worth trying. But if they can fight an eviction and stay for 2 or 3 months, would any landlord give them that much money to leave sooner?
We did offer cash for keys once. The tenant had lost her rental assistance, and although she had a job, couldn't afford the rent without the assistance. We would have been happy to keep her otherwise. She was very upset about having to move, and never actually said she wouldn't go, but was so distraught we just weren't sure. We felt it would be an easier/faster exit if we gave her a few hundred dollars to leave by the end of the month, and she did.
I'm amazed that you've had that kind of luck, @Franklin Romine, given that CA is a tenant friendly state. I would think the tenants would just dig in and wait out the eviction process. How long would that typically take?
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
Yeah, @Troy Fisher , good deals! I bought two properties from him; I slowly weeded out the bad tenants. Ones not paying did at least make partial payments. I'm very thankful that in Maryland, you can accept partial rent and still continue with eviction until it's all paid! The latest purchase though--from another lazy landlord--I made our offer contingent on him ridding of the tenants before closing. It worked out fine.
Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
11y
It is a bad idea to hand a resident cash to leave. They will move on to the next place without a mark on their record and with a feeling that they can get over on people. Start the eviction process early. Ding their credit and leave them with a judgment. This will stop them from continuing this process as the new landlord should not take them if they have judgments and evictions on their record.
As landlords we need to be professional with our processes. This helps the machine move in a smoother fashion.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
In FL and NJ, once an eviction is filed, it's on their record. It may not go to court, but it does show up. A filing looks like this in FL:
SUMMONS W/COMPLAINT 5-DAY
If it never went further, that's all there is. If it goes to court and the eviction is granted, it looks like this. I tell tenants, prior to filing, that it will appear on their public record regardless.
Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
11y
There are a only a few reasons why a tenant stops paying and doesn't leave. They don't have any more and no place to go.
Our options are evict, give them cash or give them a new place to live for free. All of which cost of money. Since I self manage and can make quick executive decisions I lean towards giving them cash to move on. If they are completely not cooperating and are damaging the property then eviction is the best option.
If you are dealing with a multi unit property then eviction is the only option. Once neighboring tenants catch wind you are pass cash out for non payment your screwed.
It is a bad idea to hand a resident cash to leave. They will move on to the next place without a mark on their record and with a feeling that they can get over on people. Start the eviction process early. Ding their credit and leave them with a judgment. This will stop them from continuing this process as the new landlord should not take them if they have judgments and evictions on their record.
As landlords we need to be professional with our processes. This helps the machine move in a smoother fashion.
Professionalism in the context of landlording means making business decisions on the basis of what makes financial sense.
There are a only a few reasons why a tenant stops paying and doesn't leave. They don't have any more and no place to go.
Our options are evict, give them cash or give them a new place to live for free. All of which cost of money. Since I self manage and can make quick executive decisions I lean towards giving them cash to move on. If they are completely not cooperating and are damaging the property then eviction is the best option.
If you are dealing with a multi unit property then eviction is the only option. Once neighboring tenants catch wind you are pass cash out for non payment your screwed.
Frank
Frank!
Tenants also choose not to pay. We learned the lesson from the banks that this is okay during the housing crisis. House underwater? Whether you can afford it or not stop paying! Want to buy a boat? Stop paying your mortgage and it'll take months to years to have the banks kick you out! You landlord in foreclosure? You don't have to pay rent!
I rent to lower end tenants and have had my fair share of professional tenants. If they want to, they can always find a way to pay their rent. They make a choice that other things are more important that their housing costs. I love it when my property manager comes to me and says that she has tenant that is using a church or government agency to help pay the bills. That means (excluding Section 8) that they are almost always being required to be in some sort of financial planning classes.
I know a landlord who has been doing this for decades, so you'd think he'd know how to choose a good tenant. Instead, he is routinely taking terrible tenants who don't pay rent and have prior evictions. Landlords like him for some reason just don't care. I don't get it. No wonder he's selling most of his properties...
I know one of these too. I spoke with him this morning and he told me he's got 75 uncollected judgements (out of about 10-15 rental properties over the years). I wasn't sure if he was bragging or complaining.