Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I have a tenant that gave me their 30 day notice yesterday, which was cause for some serious celebration. Almost every interaction I've had with them over the last two and a half years ended with them threatening to sue me (dryer isn't working, "we're going to sue." Coming to fertilize the lawn; "this is our home and we don't want you here, if you show up, we'll sue.") Of course, they've never actually sued, because they have no idea what they're talking about.
So, I told them that I would be showing the house over the next month, and the lease allows me to have reasonable access without permission to show the house within 45 days of them giving notice. I've told them that I would give them at least 48 hours notice, and they've told me that they'll sue if I don't pay them $50 each time I show the house, because they are worried that I will show the house to a registered sex offender. But I guess It's okay to have a registered sex offender in the house if they get $50? Obviously I will show they house, and give them the notice that I promised I would.
My concern here is that I don't believe they will be gone on July 2nd, as their notice requires. I will have a new lease in place and new tenants ready to move in. How can I be proactive about this so that I don't have a nightmare on July 2nd with a new tenant trying to move in and the old tenants still living there and refusing to leave?
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
If you know they are problem tenants and always threatening lawsuits, why would you even attempt to show it while they are still there? Even with the best tenants, it is difficult to show while occupied. What happens when these guys say things are missing? I'd just wait until they were actually out to schedule any showings. You can still be pre-screening interested parties, then have an open house for all of them after the problem tenants are really gone.
Rental Property Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 414 posts · 272 votes
11y
I fully sympathize with your wish to avoid unnecessary vacancy. I always show a house when the departing tenants still are there, and I've been burned only once. Those tenants were such poor housekeepers that the condition turned off everybody who saw the house, although the eventual new tenants did come back for another look when it was vacant.
I usually have reasonable tenants, and if they have nice furnishings the house may look better than it does vacant. (I realize your current tenants won't have anything nice, though.)
Others here can give advice about preparing for eviction, but you have a security deposit, right? The threat of losing that is the incentive for tenants to have the place in reasonable shape for you to show it.
Remind them that you have the deposit and let them know that, if they don't have the house clean and easy for you to show to prospects, you will charge them for every little thing that is not immaculate and working when they leave, assuming it was clean and working when they moved in. Indicate that if they are willing to work with you, you'll be more lenient about the deposit.
My guess is that these losers won't understand that and have mentally written off the deposit already, but maybe it's worth a try.
Real Estate Agent · Newburyport, MA · Member since 2015 · 68 posts · 12 votes
11y
Offer them cash for keys. $200 spent to get them to leave is cheaper than going through an eviction process. If they want $50 every time you show the house, they might be very happy to just take $200 with no showings and leave.
Wholesaler · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 401 votes
11y
The thing I'm concerned about is you seem to have a very weak lease agreement and it is missing several clauses which would make your life much easier. Also when I make call to a current landlord I want to make sure it is the current landlord, the guy you talked to could have been his best friend. plus I ask that landlord to sign a form confirming in writing what he said to me on the phone. I once had a good friend pass a problem tenant on to me he wanted to get rid of which lead to the creation of the form.
Property Manager · Bixby, OK · Member since 2015 · 52 posts · 13 votes
11y
tenant screening can only do so much unless you complete a psychological profile. I agree to wait to show the unit until they're out but I would have a notice to vacate prepared. As an incentive you could offer them an allowance for moving expenses if they move early
Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
So much great advice here. Thanks to all who took the time to share their thoughts. There's an overwhelming majority here who have given compelling reasons to wait until they leave to show the house. I had not even considered that the tenant would make claims that they had personal possessions stolen, which I am almost certain would happen.
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Are you really planning on putting a new tenant in after a 30 month tenancy with no turnover time? Your new tenants should be moving in after a professional cleaning and maintenance for at least wear and tear. Paint touch up is normal after two years. Carpet, window and appliance cleaning. When is that supposed to happen?
Fix & Flip or Hold · San Luis Obispo, CA · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 63 votes
11y
Here's a problem with waiting until they leave: Let's say you wait till say, 1 week after the new tenants left to clean, touch-up, advertise, schedule and show to prospective tenants. Your new responsible tenants will want to give 30 days notice (likely a little longer) to their current landlord and move. That means 5-7 weeks of vacancy for you!
As an alternative you could show the new prospects just the outside of the house (preferably when the tenants are not home). Bring along pictures of the interior and explain they can do another walk-through inside when it's vacant. Being physically at the property will help them decide if they want it and hopefully get them to make their decision and give notice to their current landlord. This could reduce your vacant time to potentially only 1-3 days (best case) . While I appreciate comments advising you to wait, realize that this could cost you 1.5 months of rent!
BTW, I had similar type of tenant screaming I will sue, sue, sue for all sorts of heinous crimes! Her strategy was to scare me into letting her skip the last 1.5 months of rent due on her tenancy. Following her threats I had my cell phone out taking pics and video during our interactions (and let her know it). I recommended she see a lawyer so she didn't do anything illegal to land herself in trouble. I even looked up some Lawyer names and contact info for her.
I emphasized 3 things every time we thereafter spoke:
If She refused to pay the rent we will proceed with an eviction and request the judgement be recorded.
We will report non payment to the credit bureau.
We will seek criminal charges for any vandalism done to the property.
He is an example of language I included in our subsequent correspondence. Feel free to borrow:
Regarding contractors and other professionals who have frequented the Duplex, please understand that California law requires a 24 hr written notice to enter the unit. No one has ever entered your unit without your permission. You recall 8 occasions where people appeared on the property without prior notice..... (I cite examples) ....... Appearing on the doorstep informing you of work on the exterior does not require prior notice. As a courtesy we gave you notice anyway 30 days in advance (see 3/21/14 letter). Please understand there will continue to be people working on the exterior of the property as you have been notified by myself and my construction contractor. As we have discussed earlier we will endeavor minimize their impact to the best extent possible, but will be working on both unit exteriors. This is lawful activity in full compliance with California Laws.
(redacted), the bottom line is the rent is due on the 1st. If you don’t pay your rent when it is due I will seek legal remedies in court and I will prevail which will result in a judgment issued against you. I have been fair, upfront and courteous to you throughout your tenancy.
Don’t be short sighted, a judgment can have all sorts of ramifications that will show up on your record and affect your prospects for future employment, benefits, a place to rent or getting a home loan. If I can make the rest of your stay more enjoyable I will but the rent must be paid.
I do not anticipate this will be a problem however I am compelled to inform you that any willful acts of destruction or sabotage to the property will be criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law. We will also seek full monetary restitution through Civil Courts for any damage to the property caused by you or guests of yours.
Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
@Will M, thank you for the thorough advice and examples. You hit on an issue that I had in mind, but has not been addressed here. I WANT a tenant that gives their landlord 30 days notice, so why would I approve of an incoming tenant that is not giving the proper notice to their current landlord? That being said, the rental market is so tight here that there are lots of millenials living with mom and dad and are fighting for any available vacancy, and would likely have the ability to move in at any time.
I think others have said enough reason as to why you should wait in this particular tenants case and I agree.
I have a question for you though, If the tenant threatened to sue for everything like you indicated is there a reason you extended the lease (I am assuming you had a 12 month lease to start with). I am just curious to see if you had a reason.
I am relatively new to being a landlord so trying to understand.
I think others have said enough reason as to why you should wait in this particular tenants case and I agree.
I have a question for you though, If the tenant threatened to sue for everything like you indicated is there a reason you extended the lease (I am assuming you had a 12 month lease to start with). I am just curious to see if you had a reason.
I am relatively new to being a landlord so trying to understand.
Hi Radhika-
Good question, and it's one that we discussed every single month. Here's the thing- the wife is crazy, the husband is rational. If the wife blew up, I would leave, hang up, whatever. The next day I would call the husband and he normally apologized for her behavior and would make an effort to fix the situation. That, and they always paid rent- usually not on time, but always paid within a couple days of the due date. We actually decided that we weren't going to renew their lease for July, but they gave notice instead. In all honesty, I should have done that last summer, but it's a lesson for me.
@Will M, thank you for the thorough advice and examples. You hit on an issue that I had in mind, but has not been addressed here. I WANT a tenant that gives their landlord 30 days notice, so why would I approve of an incoming tenant that is not giving the proper notice to their current landlord? That being said, the rental market is so tight here that there are lots of millenials living with mom and dad and are fighting for any available vacancy, and would likely have the ability to move in at any time.
In a tight rental market there are often plenty of applicants who would not have the constraint of giving their current landlord notice, or they have done so already. New to the area, new to the rental market, looking for better school district, etc. In tight rental markets people pay to get the unit, regardless of the start date. And manage to pay overlapping rents if that's what it takes. You know your market best. I would not assume you are stuck with a 30+ day vacancy. Get the unit vacant, clean/repair it and show it.
There are lots of assumptions here about your tenants not leaving on time. They are the ones who gave notice. Why not assume that they have the need and desire to leave in a timely way?