landlording nightmare

landlording nightmare

Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes

So my father has been a landlord for about 20 years in Detroit, under his wing ive never once heard of a story like this 

Weve had a tenant in a house for about 5 years now, hes a decent tenant and he loved the house  so allowed him to buy the house off of us with a land contract.

about 3 years ago the man decides to turn to a life of crime.
this tenant heard about one of my father's units being destroyed, he said to my father " i know who did it and ill take care of it"
the person who supposedly gutted our apartment ended murdered shortly after. the tenant claimed responsibility for it. 

at this point fearing for our lives we call the police on him, we tell them we are very sure he is selling drugs and this man is dangerous. 
the Detroit police watch him like a hawk, they raid the house and indeed find several amounts of cocaine and prescription meds. somehow the city lets him go, now the tenant is erratic with the payments. my father tries to confront him about the payments, this tenant somehow knows where our other business is located and tells him if he ever tries to evict, he will shoot us dead. 

since the first raid the police have raided the house and pulled him over several times, each time finding drugs in his possession each time getting let go. this last time we got a letter from the city of detroit ordering us to evict this tenant, we ask the police for help and  unfortunately we got nothing. the major of Detroit himself sues us and shows up to court, he makes a statement that it is our responsibility to take care of the "nuisance" and not the responsibility of the city 

with the city refusing to help and instead telling us to evict or they will take the home. my father has decided to let the home fall into tax foreclosure. the house is worth 20-35k defiantly not worth anyone's life. 

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Investor · Owasso, OK · Member since 2013 · 166 posts · 90 votes
10y

Could you market it as a turnkey to an out of towner?

Kidding. I would let it go. Sorry.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    He is probably exaggerating to scare you. Based on your post, it is clearly working.

    I personally would evict through the court system and get my house back rather than throw away tens of thousands of dollars. The reason bullies like this last so long is because people refuse to stand up to them. Letting him walk all over you doesn't guarantee your safety or that the problem will go away when you lose the house.

    If you are afraid of him, work through an attorney. If it requires fact-to-face contact, hire a couple tough guys to do it. Personally, I would handle this outside of the legal system. Most criminals, particularly druggies, do not respond to the law but they do respond to their own pain and suffering.I would launch an all-out war against this individual and run him out of town within a month. To each his own.

     
    i too believe he is just attempting to intimidate us, but unfortunatly this is a situation we would rather not put to the test.

    i told my father we should take back the home, the tenant/buyer not only is behind in payments but has not paid the taxes on the location, hence why we are letting the property go. luckily we sold the home on a land contract and has paid off most if not all what my father originally paid for it. the home is worth maybe 20-35k in the area so it isnt a huge loss. 

    sadly even if we chose to confront with an attorney, he would still see us working on the houses near by since we own several in the neighborhood. I too believe that the best choice of action would be to alert his competition or hire an outside force, but my father insists he would rather not add to the stress of the situation. in the end id say with this many problems id rather lose the problem all together as well.

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    If it is truly a land contract (the word tenant was used in the post)--this person is not a tenant but a buyer.  Whether or not the tenant is an alleged criminal is a mute point.  He's already done all he can by calling the police.  As long as he is making the payments on time and fulfilling all the other land contract obligations, he's the stuckee.  Now--if by some fluke--the land contract has provisions in it that states criminal activity is not allowed and grounds for termination of the contract, I'd advise getting an attorney.  But, in that case, he is back to square one as a target for retaliation.  (And, I'm not an attorney.)


    i apologize I guess he would be considered more of a buyer than a tenant. As for the terms of the contract, my father has never made a contract that was over one page long with basic terms of sale so i am very sure there is no criminal activity clause on the contract. and he has not only been late on payments multiple times he is many months behind at this point. he has also failed to pay property tax  (which he was responsible for in the terms)  its why we got the letter that the building might go into tax foreclosure. 

    unfortunately even if we chose to get an attorney the attorney would probably cost us more than the house is worth it would be cheaper at this point just to find a different property in the area 

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Chris Reed:

    @James S.

    Did I miss something?  If you sold the property to him, then you cannot legally evict him.  If you can legally evict him, then you still own the property.  If you own the property, then you can have the city turn off utilities to the property and prevent anyone else from turning them back on.  It's hard to live through a MI winter without water or power.

    Also, if he hasn't been paying on time, does that violate the terms of the contract?  Does that void it?  If so, can the property be put up for auction?

     we still have the deed for the property since he has not payed it off completely. the utilities are under his name so we wouldnt be able to shut them off. 

    yes his refusal to pay on time and in full does violate the terms. we have discussed that with him and that is when he made threats of gunning us down and burning down our other properties if we booted him from the house. 

    please elaborate on what you mean by " put up for auction " ? 

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jim Adrian:

    Could you sell the property to someone else and let the new owner inherit the problems?  Tell the City to go pound sand because you don't own the property anymore.  

    Can we burn down the house? lol

     that is probably the best course of action at this point. i will talk to my father and see if he would agree. perhaps someone would want to buy the contract even though the tenant is such a problem 

  • Chris K.Pro Member
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
    10y

    Sounds like something out of the Twilight Zone.

    Under what circumstances can the City order you to evict someone? I've never heard of this

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James S.:

    So my father has been a landlord for about 20 years in Detroit, under his wing ive never once heard of a story like this 

    Weve had a tenant in a house for about 5 years now, hes a decent tenant and he loved the house  so allowed him to buy the house off of us with a land contract.

    about 3 years ago the man decides to turn to a life of crime.
    this tenant heard about one of my father's units being destroyed, he said to my father " i know who did it and ill take care of it"
    the person who supposedly gutted our apartment ended murdered shortly after. the tenant claimed responsibility for it. 

    at this point fearing for our lives we call the police on him, we tell them we are very sure he is selling drugs and this man is dangerous. 
    the Detroit police watch him like a hawk, they raid the house and indeed find several amounts of cocaine and prescription meds. somehow the city lets him go, now the tenant is erratic with the payments. my father tries to confront him about the payments, this tenant somehow knows where our other business is located and tells him if he ever tries to evict, he will shoot us dead. 

    since the first raid the police have raided the house and pulled him over several times, each time finding drugs in his possession each time getting let go. this last time we got a letter from the city of detroit ordering us to evict this tenant, we ask the police for help and  unfortunately we got nothing. the major of Detroit himself sues us and shows up to court, he makes a statement that it is our responsibility to take care of the "nuisance" and not the responsibility of the city 

    with the city refusing to help and instead telling us to evict or they will take the home. my father has decided to let the home fall into tax foreclosure. the house is worth 20-35k defiantly not worth anyone's life. 

    Wow, so sorry to hear about your family's horrific ordeal here. What part of Detroit is the property located in? Insane that the mayor's office has a nerve to sue you! Instead of trying to work with the few law abiding citizens in a town that has been thrown out with the garbage, they pull this. How foolish and now they're losing a current investor and potentially future investors, after reading this. Maybe your dad can sell the place to the drug dealer since they already live there and it seems the officials are on his side anyway. Quit claim the deed to him for all cash. Its an idea to try to avoid that demerit on your FICO and you're done with the headache of rental defaults and death threats. Thanks for sharing and hopefully things will work out for you. Happy Holidays.

    Kudos,

    Mary

  • Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 29 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James S.:
    Originally posted by @Chris Reed:

    @James S.

    Did I miss something?  If you sold the property to him, then you cannot legally evict him.  If you can legally evict him, then you still own the property.  If you own the property, then you can have the city turn off utilities to the property and prevent anyone else from turning them back on.  It's hard to live through a MI winter without water or power.

    Also, if he hasn't been paying on time, does that violate the terms of the contract?  Does that void it?  If so, can the property be put up for auction?

     we still have the deed for the property since he has not payed it off completely. the utilities are under his name so we wouldnt be able to shut them off. 

    yes his refusal to pay on time and in full does violate the terms. we have discussed that with him and that is when he made threats of gunning us down and burning down our other properties if we booted him from the house. 

    please elaborate on what you mean by " put up for auction " ? 

    In Texas, if a property is sold in a Land Trust, the ownership of that trust can be assigned or reassigned via contract.  Additionally, the terms of that contract can specify event triggers that will automatically manage assignment of that trust when the conditions for that trigger exist.

    Example:  
    Terms: Monthly payment is $XX.XX and is due before close of business (5pm) on the 3rd of the month.
    Condition: If a payment is late, the trust ownership is reassigned to seller.
    Trigger:  5:01pm on the 3rd - Monthly payment has not been made.
    Triggered Action: Land Trust reassigned to seller.  Buyer loses all rights to property effective immediately.

    This is a strategy for owner finance that protects both sides, but prevents the seller from having to foreclose when a contract has been violated.  It's a little more complicated than I'm making it sound, but that's the gist.

    ...but that's Texas.  I don't know about MI.

    Assuming you have the legal right to sell the property since the terms of the contract have been violated and the property is in a trust, you can sell it via auction.

    https://www.auction.com/lp/residential-sell/

    http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/auctions/mi/

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I would look to turn it off to a church group or other charity maybe something good can arise from the horrendous sceanrio

  • Taylor, MI · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    WOW! No joke I just did jury duty for Wayne county for a similar case. landlord and friend went to evict tenant and the tenant was accused of shooting the two men. Welcome to Detroit!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Williamsburg, VA · Member since 2008 · 143 posts · 105 votes
    10y

    @James S.

    Man, I'm sorry about your situation but, um, I wouldn't sell the property to someone else. That's not good business. For this guy to be getting off after everything he has been caught engaging in is slimy.  This guy tells you that he'd "take care" of someone and, subsequently, the person ends up dead tells me this dude has connections. This is not a situation you'd want to pass off to someone else. This is beyond the average "problem tenant" scenario.

    You need some legal and personal security counsel. The city is being irrational putting all the responsibility on you and your father. I'd be suing, that's for sure. Nobody gets caught with drugs and such then walks in a sound legal system. Something is crooked... you need to elevate this. 

    Think about it... even if you sell to someone else, this guy is threatening YOU not to evict him; therefore, this guy will be coming for YOU when the new landlord (or whatever they would be) evicts him. He supposedly murdered a guy for causing damage to someone else's property. It sounds like, in his mind, you and your father owe him. This guy is not the property's problem, I strongly believe he's your problem. He knows where your business is and he might know more. 

    These criminal types don't think on our level. Their principles are not our principles. If I were you, I'd concentrate on your personal well-being instead of trying to offload a problem (that may not be offloadable) to someone else.

    This is pretty bad...  

  • Hales Corners, WI · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 80 votes
    10y

    Dear James,

    I am so sorry for the stress and danger of what you are going through.  Here are a couple thoughts, I'm not experienced with this so take my suggestions for what you paid for them. :)

    I was thinking along the same lines as what Guy M. said above, and he was more detailed that my thinking -- but -- what Guy said "personal security counsel" -- consider getting you and your dad bulletproof vests to wear  (and wear them! use them!) if you are in the area if there is any danger of you getting shot -- and, consider getting security to accompany you to properties if you have to be in the area.  Maybe an off duty police officer or a retired police or retired military? And maybe you need coaching on this particular situation if this person is even worse than it seems already.  If you are working where people get shot, please, please be careful and think about your self-defense. (This reminds me of the gun thread, but you don't have to carry guns but you may want a safety plan in place.)

    Second, not to criticize you dad, but given this experience, I'm just wondering if you and he avoid this kid of land contract setup in the future?  This individual is a problem, but is this type of a deal the right fit for this area?  Might be something to reevaluate.  I think it's noble to want people to become homeowners in the city but it sounds like the neighborhood  and residents might not be the right fit for that. 

    Good luck, I will pray for you and your family.  

    Karen

  • Flipper/Rehabber · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    WOW! This really is a nightmare. I'm confused on so many points in that story. This is one of my greatest fears with REI. Best of luck with the situation.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Why not just give the guy the property , then all the headaches are his . He is happy , he thinks he won . A liability is gone and since the guy is happy he leaves you alone. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 493 posts · 200 votes
    10y

    You could sell your land contract to another investor.  (Albeit--a little difficult when asked about the current buyer.  Give them a deep discount?)

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y

    Wow

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