Creative ways to post rent price when utilities are included.

Creative ways to post rent price when utilities are included.

Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 6 votes

I'm wondering if there is a creative way to list my rent price. Currently the utility prices are included in the rent because I don't have split meters. The problem with this is that it drives up the cost of the rent – even though in reality is is less total costs per month since the utilities are included. I think I am not showing up to the potential tenants that are looking in the same price range as my listing. Is there some way that I can list the rent price differently and still be legal? Currently the cost of rent is $1625 including utilities. Could I advertise it as $1400 with a set $225 utility fee? Or is this dangerous territory in terms of legalities?

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Investor · Pelham, NH · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 12 votes
10y

@Account Closed

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  • Investor · Hillsborough, NH · Member since 2015 · 137 posts · 126 votes
    10y

    Where's your southern hospitality @Account Closed. 

    Fortunately, the cost-benefit analysis there is not exactly rocket-surgery. Simply capitalizing the return by dividing the expected increase in NOI by the cost of the improvement will do the trick, and if the resultant Cap Rate doesn't look better than you can get elsewhere, it's not a fiscally sound move to do it. Sure, you can go a little more complex to account for TVM, but capitalizing an improvement like that is more than adequate unless utility rates are expected to change significantly (such as natural gas lines being installed, new expected energy taxes, etc); in which case a more complex analysis discounting future cash flows would be in order. Anyway, it depends on the property, like everyone said.

  • Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Your job as a landlord is to A) maximize monthly cash flow and B) maximize the value of your building. If you do not have meters you have failed at both, and therefore, I put you in the slumlord category, because in most cases it is extremely easy and cheap to install meters.

    If for some reason you think you need to keep the utilities in your name that isn't relevant, you can still have meters and use them to determine how much to charge people. In a lot of states it's not legal to charge for any utilities without a meter. In most places however you can charge a reasonable fee for reading the submeter, or, you can even hire somebody to do it if you have a bunch of them. You can also have direct billing with the utility where they take care of all the work.

    Even if you think you need to include "free" utilities in your rent for some reason, you need to have a meter to prevent waste. You only include a certain amount of the utility with the rent, not an unmetered, never ending supply. It is a proven fact a tenant will waste unmetered utilities, and this only increases your monthly expenses.

    There is no smart argument for not having an individual meter for each tenant. The cost is too small in relation to the savings to be had and the increase in building value. A landlord that doesn't think they need meters is not somebody I can consider a professional. A smart tenant will avoid these properties knowing they will likely be overcharged for utilities. It's a bad way to run your business, no doubt about it.

    And, since you asked about me personally, I make several hundred dollars every month in profit (legally) by submetering industrial utilities and charging my own rates that are higher than what the utility charges. More than some people rent entire units for.

     For me, as a landlord, I also have a C) Provide a safe, comfortable, clean place to live for my tenants. 

  • Investor · Pelham, NH · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    @Troy Zsofka 

    Thanks for the great post with a different angle that I had used... I was tending to stay away from the southern hospitality angle, but for me, I spent over 4 years at Ft Bragg, NC while in the Army, so I am also very familiar with living in the south (10 years in TX) and especially time in NC. Your explanation and analysis is exactly what I was trying to say, but I was not as eloquent as you were. Improving cash flow is always important, but keeping good tenants happy to reduce tenant changeover expenses is just as important, so if my tenants are happy paying all included, and I average a 22-24% ROI, then I am pretty happy too... Thanks

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 91 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Hi Ryan, your basic premise here is false.  In many places you can prorate the overall utility bills to tenants based on, for example, the number of occupants in each unit.  In this case you don't have submeters, but the tenants still pay 100% of the utilities...how would the landlord be making more money with individual meters in this case?  Another method mentioned above is the RUBS system for allocating utilities, which has the same basic result.

    I can say from experience that very sophisticated, very professional teams are building institutional-grade apartment buildings with 100+ units in Seattle that do not have individual meters for all utilities.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 91 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Forgot to mention that the distinction between meters costing thousands of dollars vs. about a hundred may be whether or not the meters are installed by the utility... where I'm based the public utilities charge an arm and a leg for meter installation, but we are installing our own cold water submeters (upstream of the utility meter) in each unit for somewhere around $200 each I believe (don't have the numbers in front of me), which includes the cost of the wireless transmitters, repeaters, and receiver.

  • Engineer/Real Estate Investor · Renton, WA · Member since 2015 · 368 posts · 120 votes
    10y

    Great back and forth 

    @Account Closed  

    @Jim Ehlinger 

    Seems like two successful investors with differing opinions. How does the saying go? More than one way to skin a cat? 

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 91 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Another thing occurred to me as I walked into work a couple days ago...downtown office high-rises, buildings that are 50+ stories tall, don't individually meter tenants (at least not typically).  The office downtown where I work pays a share of expenses based on square footage.  Tenants are still paying all the utilities, but they aren't individually metered.  It is managed by Unico, a company that "owns and operates over 13 million square feet of premier office properties" (from their website) across many states, and was rated the #1 office manager in the United States.  They manage over 10 acres of land (covered in office towers, apartments, retail, etc.) literally smack dab in the middle of downtown Seattle.  I would consider them pretty darn professional.

    Anyway, I agree with @Pete Perez: more than one way to skin a cat.

  • Real Estate Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    @Jessica vollendorf

    I'm in the same boat. I have a garage apt, wondering if sub-metering to that unit will be worth it? Currently I charge rent and a $100/month utility fee.

  • Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Hi Laura,

    I have done research on sub-metering since I posted this. Sub metering the water meant putting in another line to the main at the street. The cost to do this would've been over $10,000. Definitely cost prohibitive for me. 

    Electricity, I am still in the process, luckily on my lot I can have a separate meter box for each unit. Often times you need to have a dual meter box and it is way more expensive. 

    But, even the separate meter box may be cost prohibitive. I am going to have to replace a power pole to be taller and provide enough clearance between the wires that exist on the pole and the wires that the power company would need to add. Then, I am going to have to pay an electrician to do the work adding the meter box etc. At this point, I have really rough quotes. The pole may cost me $2,000 (I'll get an $1,100 allowance from the power company) and the electrical work is probably going to cost around $2-3K.

    I hope this helps!

    Jessica

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