Can Landlords Raise Rent on Outdated Dump to Same as Updated?
Rohnert Park, CA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 7 votes
We rent, we live in a nice condo complex from the 70's. Most units have been nicely updated, new weather efficient windows, doors, carpet, paint, updated bathrooms and kitchen, etc. Not ours... our unit has never been updated since the 70's, and is crumbly. However...we don't complain ever because our rent is $600 lower than all of our neighbor's with updated units, and we'd rather have lower rent than updates. BUT NOW our landlord is starting to raise the rent due to the area comps, but can she do that when ours is a dump compared to the others? We're in California.
And, if she raises our rent (slowly) to $600 more (over time, per law requirements), can we require her to update our windows to energy efficient windows and doors? (Our heating bills are over $400/month in the winter due to heat loss.) New carpets, updated bathroom and kitchen appliances, etc.?
Thanks.
Yes they can.
No you can't.
As a tenant you have the ability to choose where you live.
That's a good question. I don't know any of the laws in California, so I couldn't give you real advice there. All I know is that something is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it. They might be able to do whatever the heck they want...I lived in an apartment that did that, and they ended up dropping the monthly price by 40% the next year, because their poor management value for the price had caused a lot of vacancies.
Actively look for another option while you still have breathing room.
We rent, we live in a nice condo complex from the 70's. Most units have been nicely updated, new weather efficient windows, doors, carpet, paint, updated bathrooms and kitchen, etc. Not ours... our unit has never been updated since the 70's, and is crumbly. However...we don't complain ever because our rent is $600 lower than all of our neighbor's with updated units, and we'd rather have lower rent than updates. BUT NOW our landlord is starting to raise the rent due to the area comps, but can she do that when ours is a dump compared to the others? We're in California.
And, if she raises our rent (slowly) to $600 more (over time, per law requirements), can we require her to update our windows to energy efficient windows and doors? (Our heating bills are over $400/month in the winter due to heat loss.) New carpets, updated bathroom and kitchen appliances, etc.?
Thanks.
Hi Holly,
Rohnert Park does not have rent control. So, your landlord can raise the rent as much as they want to. If they raise it more than 10%, they have to give you 60 days notice. If they want to kick you out, and you've been there over 12 months, they need to give you 60 days notice. That's it.
That sucks. Ok, thanks!!
That sucks. Ok, thanks!!
I don't know. Think about all of the thousands of dollars you've been saving, and that the landlord has been losing. I think you should be grateful for the nice run of cheap rent you've had.
And don't start about how it's not been updated. You know that the landlord could have been getting more rent for that unit, just the way it is. Add up that amount of money in your head. Let's say, as-is, it could have been rented for at least $400 more per month? That's at least $4800 per year you've been saving, and the landlord has been subsidizing.
Surely, you couldn't think that could last forever.
Well the problem is, we're actually NOT saving all the money per year, because the heating bills are astronomical due to the junky windows and doors in this place, so we basically pay the difference there. Other units are updated with the energy efficient windows, and we have those thin single-paned alumimum windows. We've been paying over $400/month in energy bills, whereas neighbors pay $60. And there's other costs, such as older appliances using more energy too. And they told us when we moved in that the heater units in the walls don't work well, and advised we use plug-in space heaters. I know we're lucky to have had lower rent, but we don't complain about anything for that reason and never ask for anything unless it's needed. Our carpets are so old, they have stains that magically return after shampooing, and the walls have places that crumble, the bathroom fan is the cheapest kind you can get so it gets moldy if we don't clean it constantly....we've probably paid so much extra in cleaning supplies, too, that wouldn't have been needed if we had updates. The windows get extra wet and prone to mold if we don't clean them constantly, for example, and extra energy from having to vacuum spider webs off the ceiling from bugs getting in so easy from poor sealing around windows and doors. *sigh* Can't wait to own our OWN place! :) Just can't afford it...yet! P.S. I did a typo...our rent is $400 below market, not $600.
The other thing is we've lived her for many years (over 10), whereas the units around us have super high turnover. We've had so many neighbors (problem neighbors, I might add) come and go. Pot smokers, partiers, people fighting/screaming/throwing things at each other, dogs that bark and howl all day and whine all night, unsupervised teenagers lighting backyard bonfires in the bbq grill while mom away at work, etc. We are the very good tenants -- no pets, no smoke, no drugs, no parties, very quiet, very clean!! (Oh my gosh...I've seen neighbors' homes...gross.) I've talked to the landlord for the unit next door, and he's always over there doing repairs, and completely refreshing the unit every 6-12 months due to his high turnover tenants, he seems very stressed. I asked him once for info on real estate investing, he said being a landlord sucks all his time.
Our landlord, on the other hand, never hears from us, we pay rent on time, and we keep her place clean and maintained nicely -- it actually looks way better now than it did when we moved in, because we've repaired crumbly wall sections, spackled holes/dents, touched up scratched doors and floorboards, de-stained the linoleum, replaced cracked lightswitch plates, power-washed the patio, washed the blinds (the landlord didn't, there was cat hair embedded in them from a previous tenant, which by the way the landlord wasn't aware of anyone having a cat, LOL), etc. Someone once told me you don't want to raise rent much on good tenants like us... but the landlord just exchanged ownership from the mom to her daughter, so technically...new landlord...even though they haven't given us a new rental agreement, still in the mom's name.
What do you all think, should you keep rent lower for good tenants? Or no?
@Account Closed said you get to choose where you want to live, and as long as your landlord follows the state laws for habitable conditions, he can choose what upgrades he does to his property.
Wishing you good luck and an a positive experience in your rental situation.
You have a landlord that *advised* you to use space heaters? Are you kidding? I advise people NOT to use them, jeesh.
If the daughter knows she can get $400 more in rent if she upgrades it, she may figure that she'll raise the rent now and see if you go or stay. It's really hard to upgrade a place while people are living in it. Or, she may be a total idiot and not realize the other places get more $$ is because they are updated. You may try explaining that to her,"Look, we are long term tenants who have been here ten years that have caused your mom no issues, but at $400 more, that only makes sense if the place is upgraded. We would be happy to have you upgrade the windows while we are living here and would be willing to pay "X" more a month for that improvement." Ask her if she wants to have tenants that stay long term, with no showings to manage, applications to review, etc, or turnover. Honestly, with our long term good tenants, we do what we need to to keep them happy.
@Account Closed,
What a landlord CAN do - legally - is one thing.
What a landlord SHOULD do - morally, ethically - may be another matter.
What's legal isn't always either moral or ethical.
What's ethical and/or moral is not necessarily legal.
Food for thought...
David J Dachtera
@Account Closed
We've kept rent lower for renters that have been with us for a long time. I have some tenants paying rent that is simply unheard of and a few years ago was so low it impacted our taxes because it was not "market rate". Finding good tenants isn't always easy and turning a unit can be expensive, we'd rather keep our long standing tenants. That's just how my family works though, our tenants are like family to us and it may be our property but it's their HOME.
Your landlord might be trying to get you out by raising the rent. I know in Washington state, the laws for eviction are different in a condo then they are in an apartment building or single family. Raising rent is sometimes the only method of "evicting a tenant".
You might just bring it to her attention that if you were to move out, in order to compete and get the same rent as an updated unit, she'd have to update it! I'd approach her that way and see where you end up, it can't hurt you. You could certainly offer to open the unit to showings and see if she gets any bites on her rent increase! I have several clients right now trying to rent outdated units for top dollar. Even in a housing shortgae, they've stayed on the market because tenants know what they can get, they aren't always so willing to pay top dollar for your 1970's linoleum! Good luck.
Based on your expenses you would probably be better off, cost wise, to move to a upgraded unit with higher rent. You are in a difficult situation and it has been created by a landlord that has not increased their rent every year. Landlords that do not raise their rents for "good tenants" are not doing anyone a favour.
If the daughter raises your rent you will likely end up moving to a better place and although pay more you may save money.
Hello Holly,
Do you have another option outside of where you lived? If so, do what you can to make your family's life better, especially for the little one.
Landlords own properties to make money, and to make lots of money. If renters think otherwise, they are crazy. You got some good advise in this forum like David D., Kaycee, and Greg. Do you know who will be paying for the upgrade of the units? Never, never, ever will be the landlords. Just like landlords pay no mortgage, their tenants do.
Would you rather be your own landlord? Interview a few very experience Realtors that will look out for their clients. Set up a plan, follow it to the point, and make it happen. There are programs out there that will help you with down payments and/or closing cost. California also has a few first time home buyers' programs to help you get in your first home. Start with a small property and build from there. You live there for 10 years already. What if you managed to buy 5 years ago? You would not have this problem now, and you will always have that problem until you own. Most of us have to start somewhere, and not everyone is born rich. I am sure that lots of investors in this forum started out just like you. They took a chance tighten their budget, and then happily after. I wish you the best of luck. Take care!
I understand giving a tenant a little bit of a break for longevity/ease but... $600 under market rent? That's 7200 a year they're leaving on the table. No way would I let things get that far below "comps". Sounds like your place may need some updating but that's really a personal opinion. The truth your landlord will find is what the market can bare. You could very well move out and it could sit and not rent. Or someone else may love it as it sits.
Everything in life is a negotiation. Keep in mind that you're posting on a forum where most of us are landlords, so we're more sympathetic to their view than people would be on a consumer protection site. Here's how I see the situation:
Landlord's leverage - market rents are significantly higher than what he/she is charging you currently, you don't want to move
Your leverage - vacancy, make-readies, marketing all cost the landlord money, you're known to be good tenants, tenant-friendly laws (many of these are local and I'm not an expert in your market, but Google is your friend)
What I would do in your situation is talk to the landlord and see if you can get some of the updates now, especially the ones that will save you money. Point out that you are a known entity, and that the Also start searching around and see what else is available. And hey, what about buying? You are on an RE investment site after all.
Holly,
If I were you, I would consider moving. It sounds like at the moment, the new owner is not willing to make upgrades but wants you to pay top dollar. She will have to provide you a 60 day notice to do any increase over 10 percent gross rent. You can choose to give her your 30 day notice and start looking for a new place within your price range. There are many landlords out there who offer stylish, updated units. If your credit, income and rental history is solid, they would love to have you as their tenant.
@Account Closed it is negotiable. If the landlord says he or she is raising the rent you can say I am going to move and you will have significant turnover costs.
I would rather keep a tenant longer at a lower rent than have turnover. Tenant turnover is the largest expense for a landlord. Although your landlord may not be smart enough to realize that.
If there are better cheaper options for you to rent, this may be the time to take advantage of them. If you don't have better cheaper options to move to; you now understand why the landlord can raise the rent.
Short answer, they can charge what they want depending on the laws. Doesn't matter the condition.
You said you pay $400/month less, but then said you spend $400/month on energy bills in the winter alone. Is up to 6 months/year with somewhat lower energy bills than the $400/month really worth the trouble you're putting up with in such an outdated unit? You could have been in a nicer place for the same/almost the same yearly expense. The peace of mind alone...
I wouldn't be surprised if portions of your unit fell under "uninhabitable" conditions based on what you're saying (crumbling walls, bad carpet). At the very least, carpet is supposed to be replaced every 3 years. This is regardless of her charging you less than market rate.
Also, if your landlord wants to raise the rent more than 10% as people have noted above, it only has to be 10% more than the lowest amount of rent you paid during the previous lease period to require the 60 days notice. (For example, on a $1200 unit that flooded and put us in a hotel for 3 weeks, when they tried to raise the rent $70/month, I realized that it was more than 10% of $300 - the lowest amount of rent we'd paid that year due to living in a hotel while the apartment was rebuilt. The rent still went up, but I got another month at current price due to them not giving proper notice.)
I certainly feel your pain at being good tenants six ways to Sunday but feeling like you're treated like riff-raff. That happened to us and the landlords themselves said we were the best tenants they ever had (but screwed us in the end, anyway after everything we'd done to help them). I'll certainly be keeping that in mind as we become landlords - it will be a business, but we'll try not to screw good people over who display that they are good tenants. Street goes both ways. Nonetheless, you can't control the landlord's intelligence, emotional awareness, or business savvy any more than they can yours. Our landlords had not been landlords before, and did a lot of things wrong that penalized us financially and otherwise. Also lessons that we'll take into REI.
But all that aside, I'm not seeing how you're actually saving money by staying there. Certainly not enough to warrant dealing with all these issues for the reasons you claim. :(
Yes they can raise the rent and the unit is worth what someone will pay for it. If they aren't planning to update the windows, It's a condo complex, if your landlord won't update keep your ears to the ground for an updated unit. You have the advantage that you are already in the complex.