HELP....I HAVE THE TENANT FROM HELL!

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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HELP....I HAVE THE TENANT FROM HELL!

Sharon C Hartless
Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 13 votes

Hi all, I am a newbie to BiggerPockets and am still learning to use the site. But... I need some help Now! 

I negotiated a discounted rental rate on a 24 month lease back in February with a single woman and her dog because she would be the perfect tenant.... WRONG!  She called to complain about something almost every day.... She was complaining about the HVAC not heating or cooling and after I sent HVAC guys over there 4 times I found out that she was refusing to run the unit because she was worried about her electric bill. I finally texted her telling her that she had to let it run ... I was done! 

During all of these repair attempts she insisted on being present because she told me "her dog can be vicious".  I pulled her file and discovered that the form I require for dogs in my properties had not been completed by a Vet and did not state that the dog was not aggressive toward humans.  Based on these grounds, I sent her a certified letter giving her 30 day notice to vacate. She sent back a certified letter saying she would not and included a completed form from her vet and, paraphrased, I was stupid. 

Next, she called my husband on Saturday night and told him a small area in the kitchen floor was flooded. He went over and turned the water to the ice maker on the frig off and vacuumed as much water as he could and asked her to watch it and let him know.  A week passed and on Saturday (again) she called and asked my husband to turn the ice maker back on.  He was supposed to return Sunday morning to do that but he told her how to turn the water back on at the shut off valve under the sink.  She had water and ice in the door again. At that time she said she was concerned that there might be mold growing in that area and asked him to come back over and check that.  I told my husband NO! 

Today he told her that since she takes her dog to "doggie Care" on Tuesdays he would go over today to check it out.  She informed him that she doesn't feel comfortable with either of us in the house without her being present.  I'm at the end of my patience with this woman.  I'm considering burning the house down!!! (just kidding).... HELP?????

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Alexander FelicePro Member
Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

Yeah I would recommend being a little more "solution" oriented and not getting into pissing matches with your tenants.

I don't see any way that your email is going to make things better. Stick to the lease, when it's broken you can evict. I will also say this: There are plenty of people in the world who are a pain in the ***, and they need a place to live too. You must learn to deal with them.

This isn't the tenant from hell, it's just your average pain in the ***, of which you should expect to meet many more. Your job is to keep her happy and paying

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  • Sharon C Hartless
    OP
    Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Hello Everyone,

    I thought I would post the outcome of the tenant from hell ...  I did give her 24 hours notice of an inspection and told her it was her responsibility to confine her dog. She was there when my husband and I arrived. She had a friend there who followed me around asking questions. After a few short answers I ignored her. 

    The house was surprisingly clean and the dog wasn't there. The next day I sent her a text telling her I was pleased with the condition of the house and asked if she would be willing to carry renters insurance with  $300,000 liability coverage. She responded that she does have renters insurance to protect "herself" and since my lease doesn't require her to carry renters insurance she declines to provide me with documentation of her insurance. 

    True to her character and evidence of my lack of skills in dealing with PITA tenants ...  I won't make that mistake again!  She is still in my house with her dog and I will have to jump when she says jump for the next 20 months.  uuugh!

    0Reply
  • Jake Holmes
    Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    A few things pop up to me. I know the lease for the apartment Im currently in has a 24 hr clause that maintenance can come in with notice to fix things or for inspection. Now if you thought the dog was going to eat you, why let her bring it? I value what I see more than what someone tells me most times. Have you contacted the vet to verify that it was from his office, he/she personally tested the dog, and he personalty signed off on the certification. That may give you a loop hole if she had a friend of hers that was a vet tech or something like that do it for her.

    0Reply
  • Matt B.
    Investor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 229 posts · 122 votes
    10y

    Sharon

    One thing I learned is that stating "repairs under $50 are the responsibility of the tenant" is not a good practice. It's your home and your responsibility. It would really suck if the tenant didn't want to pay a plumber $25 to come over and replace a worn rubber washer on the kitchen sink drain pipe and that slow leak went down the walls into the basement under the rug out of sight and then your next tenant has an asthma attack because there is 100 sq ft of mold behind the walls. Now your going to pay a few grand to cover the cost of the clean up because you didn't want to spend $25 6 months ago. It happens quite often on here.  

    0Reply
  • Suzanne Nelson
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 43 posts · 19 votes
    10y

    Hi Sharon, I feel for you. We do have an additional note in our leases which states "Frivolous service calls and missed appointments with service providers will be at the expense of the tenant". This allows us to put a lot of the responsibility back on the tenant for small issues. 

    It is difficult to screen via past landlord/ladies but we always ask if they owe them any money, if they gave their deposit back and if they would rent to them again. Still a crap shoot, but we recently had some applicants turned away because of that very late in the process. Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I am not comfortable with you in the house when I am not there, it is a control issue,Just serve notice as required by local law when you enter. If she doesn't control the dog or it is aggressive or barking call animal control if needed. I do not enter rentals willy nilly but if a tenant states they must be home upfront, it is a red flag for me.  They will be a pain.

    Long term leases tenants will walk away from them but you as a landlord have to honor them, I don't like anything much longer then a year. If someone walks from a one year lease, I can live with it. If you have a PIA tenant with a 2 year lease that is how long your life will be painful. Hope you can work it out with this tenant to make it bearable. Use  24 hours before responding for communications. It will keep you out of trouble.

    0Reply
  • Clara Jones
    Investor · Lehigh Acres, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Sharon, I have about a dozen rental properties. I found my life happy again, once I turned most of my properties over to a property manager. I'm a pretty good investor, but tenant selection and management is not something I enjoy or am good at. Yes, it costs me some commission management fees, but for me... it's worth every penny, I simply look at accounting sheets, and electronically check bank account to see money has been deposited.

    I have a friend who owns a Property Management company in the Knoxville / Louisville / Maryville, TN area. They manage hundreds of units. Really good management staff. Contact me if you want their contact info.

    Pet clauses vary by landlord. My clause "no dog over 10 lbs." (Even if it's a snappy little bugger, unlikely to need much more than a band-aide worse case... vs. pit bull... could be an extended hospital stay or worse, not to mention liability you assume as landlord.) Always get a picture of the mutt with the application.

    1Reply
  • Chris Eaker
    Buy and Hold Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 450 posts · 270 votes
    10y

    @Clara Jones, who is the person you know in Knoxville who owns a property management company and what company is it? I'm considering hiring one for my properties. Thank you!

    0Reply
  • Clara Jones
    Investor · Lehigh Acres, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Chris, you can go through the their internet site, apexknox.com

    I sold a staffing company with my Knoxville partner, Brad... He invested in multi-family rental properties in the Knoxville area. Brad grew the business organically and bought a property management company. He has since added doctors / attorneys / etc as clients to manage their properties. Not sure who will answer the phone but they will recognize Brad's name, and maybe mine, Clark. I think you will be happy with their service... 

    When I switched over to a property manager vs. self management... it really turned my investing happiness around. 

    Clark

    0Reply
  • Chris Eaker
    Buy and Hold Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 450 posts · 270 votes
    10y

    @Clara Jones

    I've spoken to Curtis Maynard at Apex in the past. I am just trying to decide if I want to give up the income at this point since I only have 5 properties right now. I will be buying more as time goes on. How many did you have when you turned them over the a property manager? Were you having a bad experience self-managing? So far I have had a good experience, but as I get more, I'm just thinking I don't want to deal with it.

    0Reply
  • Clara Jones
    Investor · Lehigh Acres, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Ok, good, you've met Curtis. I was at about 6 units when I found I was not getting good paying tenants. A turbulent time during the housing market collapse. New to the business, I did not want to stub my toe on "Fair Housing Regs" and thus probably accepted tenants that I should have screened more carefully. Plus, I like people and found that tenants sometimes would take advantage of my easy going nature. So, at that point, the dilemma was: I was having to go through evictions (which in Lee county, FL is straight forward and easy(but costly and painful))... and, I wanted to add to my holdings. I figured I would gradually turn my properties over to a property manager, and see how that went... it was fantastic... a professional property manager spends much of their time reviewing applications / interviewing / background checking / collecting rent... they simply apply much more time/experience on the tenant "front end" than I wanted to personally apply. With good tenants in place (never an eviction since - knock on wood), I was now able to expand holdings. My strength is more in finance, renovation management... the non-tenant end of the business. Rental income is now 6-figure, and could easily expand exponentially if the opportunity presented itself. A good business model.

    For you Chris, I suggest, as a tenant leaves, place that individual property with Curtis. Think of this as a trial period. If you are unhappy with the arrangement, you can always pull the property back, or place with another property manager. If you want to grow your business, you need to turn the tenant end over to a manager, so you free up your time to growing unit count. 

    I might add, if you are using a property manager, you can now look further afield for your units, since you no longer need to be close enough for regular tenant related visits.

    0Reply
  • Clara Jones
    Investor · Lehigh Acres, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Let me also add, that with my property managers (I have two (long story)) I now push them at every tenant turnover to "max" out rental rate. I have found this leading edge rental rate both "pays" for their commission, and gets a higher caliber tenant. (And theoretically, if surrounding managers do this, raises the caliber of the neighborhood?)

    0Reply
  • Patrick Philip
    FL · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 107 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Emily Lopez:

    Hi Sharon, I'm not sure about the state laws in Tennessee but in Wyoming you can enter rental properties you own without tenant permission and approval so long as you don't interfere with the tenant's "quiet enjoyment" of the property.  Especially in emergencies. If she said she is concerned about mold, I would just say you consider mold an emergency because you want to make sure she is in a safe place as your tenant.  Depending on state laws, she may not have the right to tell you not to enter without her there. 

     I agree. In Florida, it's 12 hours notice and within "reasonable hours."

    If this were me, I'd find any possible excuse to evict her. Enter the house for a routine inspection (with proper notice) and say look for ANYTHING. Did her dog damage some carpet? Try that. Anything!!!

    0Reply
  • Nina Blair
    Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    8y

    Hi Sharon, I had a tenant who complained about the DW constantly. The technician could not find a problem, so  I finally told him I would call a technician again and if he found a problem I would pay for the service call.   but if the technician said the  problem was with the user, he would be responsible for the charge.   Never a peep again about anything.  I find tenants resent having to pay rent to someone who is 'rich'   As for her wanting to be present unfortunately that it is her right.   If the fridge is yours and it leaks you have to either fix it,  or turn it off the icemaker and buy her ice cube trays.     if it is her fridge you should demand she fix it and  charge for damage to the floor.    Set times she can call you like 9-5 weekdays only,  unless it is an emergency. Manage your tenant, don't let her manage you.

    0Reply
  • Stephen Chaney
    Greenville, IL · Member since 2018 · 36 posts · 9 votes
    8y

    In regards to your email reply back, I feel things are too personal. I was afraid this would happen to me when I inherited my tenants. I sent them all multiple letters on how to go about asking for maintenance, and emergency maintenance via a company email and I file all of them.

    I actually created email templates that I just fill in the blank and send it. I wanted my tenants to assume that when they ask for maintenance a machine responds. It keeps things from getting too personal. Also (following the laws of my state) in my typical template there is a notice that states:

    "When requesting maintenance you are giving property management and maintenance permission to enter the premises during normal working hours. During maintenance management will also inspect for other preventative maintenance issues. Please have all valuables in a secure place as "My company" will not be help responsible for lost or stolen items"

    So they don't have the ability after requesting maintenance to tell us no you can't come in here. It also keeps them from calling me.

    0Reply
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