!! I Need Help With My 1st 3 Day Notice, for Florida Rental.

!! I Need Help With My 1st 3 Day Notice, for Florida Rental.

Jon S.Pro Member
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes

This isn't what I was hoping to be doing today, but here goes! 

I have a tenant in a newly renovated detached mother in law suite, well kept, well maintainanced unit, whose rent of $950 is due on the 10th of each month. 

The tenant keeps the unit clean but otherwise has not been a great tenant. The lack of communication with this tenant has been a problem since the beginning. Her unit is clean, but I learned from another tenant on the property that she has been keeping 3 additional occupants there who are not on the lease, her mom, her boyfriend and her nephew. This isn't the first time I have addressed additional occupants with her, as I personally ran into her boyfriend coming out of the apartment a couple months ago in the morning, and asked if he lived there and he said yes, and he gave me his drivers license. She is the only one on the lease. I have spoken to her about additional occupants before, but she outright denies that there are any other occupants there. So I'm not pleased with her as a tenant in terms of honesty or communication. Now she is seriously late on rent as well. 

This month, on June 11th, she dropped a rent check in my mailbox for only $400, without any explaination as to the lack of full payment.

I texted her and asked for an explaination, she said she had a family emergency and that she would be paying the rest and the late fees. By text I asked when she would be making that payment, she didn't respond to the text. 

I went out of town the same day, and upon returning on the 17th, there was no balance of rent check in my mail box. I called and there was no response.  

Now I am looking up the documents for serving a 3 day notice and reading Florida Statutes.

How does the payment of $400 effect the 3 Day Notice Process? 

If she wants to make another partial payment, how does that effect the 3 Day Process?  

So far, I have found this form for giving 3 Day Notice; is it a good form? Is there a better form? http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/0/0...

For the Rent Amount Due, do I write just the rent of $550 or do I write $685? Remaining unpaid RENT is $550, but with late fees of $135 ($100 plus $5/day) it is $685 today, and $5/day higher for each additional day she is late.  

I'm planning on filling out a 3 day notice and personally delivering it, and if she is not home, then I will tape it to her door and take a photo. 

Rent is due on the 10th, the lease began Dec 10 2015, I recieved first month rent plus one month rent as deposit. 

She was on time Jan, Feb. Mar. 

Late in Apr (4 days late on $200 due to emergency - I waived late fee), 

Late in May (5 days late on full amount, and she paid the full rent plus late fee), 

Late in June (without any explaination she paid $400 rent, and owes $550 rent, $100 flat late fee, and $5/day additional late fee from the 12th to date of payment.  

The form has in the bottom right corner, this wording: "This form was completed with the assistance of: Name: Address: Telephone Number:" Should I just ignore that area and leave it blank, or should I delete that from my copy of the form? 

Can someone walk me through this process?

Thank you 

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Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 6 votes
10y

If you accept any payments while you are trying to evict someone you're will loose. But before swnding the 3 day notice you can collect partial payments and swnd the eviction notice based on the amount due. You're can also use different strategies to evict your tenant. Occupants not on the lease is one. But remember after sending the notice don't collect anymore. Also if it's a first time ofense you should send a disturbance notice. Second ofense lease violation notice with option to cure. And finally on the third time the 3 day notice to quit. If you send to notice to quit when it first happens you probably will struggle in court(except for non payment). Make sure you keep a pretty good record of what you doing. My suggestion would be to implement a system where you would send notice to quit on the very first day when the lease is considered late. Make sure to communicate with yor tenants and make they understand you are running a business, "your business" and as such you have a system to follow. I hope this helps and good luck.

One final tought. Evicting someone some times can get ugly and stressfull specially if you don't know what you doing. I think a money expended with a eviction lawer is a money well invested. Can cost you much more in lawsuits vacancies, etc..

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  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    There should be specific instructions on the government web site regarding filling out, serving and time lines for the process.

    Be carful to follow every step exactly or the application may be denied.

    Your end goal should be to get rid of this tenant, you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg regarding problems with her.

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y

    @Thomas S.  I am reading the Florida Statutes and instructions. All advice appreciated. This is a nice unit with granite counters, I hope they don't do damage as retribution. 

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 492 posts · 267 votes
    10y
    Jon S. You will not be able to do more than post the 3day notice as it is not legal. It's not legal the day you accepted a partial payment. If you take it to court you will probably lose
  • Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Just a quick tip. In my opinion you should read the book buy it, rent it, profit. It gives you a step by step system how to approach each of these cases. It also gives a sample forms and notices. I just finished reading the book yesterday and looks like that book was written for you. You may want to read chapter 10 first. Regards

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y

    Thank you @Gustavo Figueiredo! I'll get the book

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Robert Herrera:

    Jon S. You will not be able to do more than post the 3day notice as it is not legal. It's not legal the day you accepted a partial payment. If you take it to court you will probably lose

     Is this true in Florida? Any other details? Thanks 

  • Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    If you accept any payments while you are trying to evict someone you're will loose. But before swnding the 3 day notice you can collect partial payments and swnd the eviction notice based on the amount due. You're can also use different strategies to evict your tenant. Occupants not on the lease is one. But remember after sending the notice don't collect anymore. Also if it's a first time ofense you should send a disturbance notice. Second ofense lease violation notice with option to cure. And finally on the third time the 3 day notice to quit. If you send to notice to quit when it first happens you probably will struggle in court(except for non payment). Make sure you keep a pretty good record of what you doing. My suggestion would be to implement a system where you would send notice to quit on the very first day when the lease is considered late. Make sure to communicate with yor tenants and make they understand you are running a business, "your business" and as such you have a system to follow. I hope this helps and good luck.

    One final tought. Evicting someone some times can get ugly and stressfull specially if you don't know what you doing. I think a money expended with a eviction lawer is a money well invested. Can cost you much more in lawsuits vacancies, etc..

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    10y
    I agree with Gustavo. Florida is rather tenant friendly depending on the county. Stop collecting money if you want to go through the process with this tenant in particular. Refer to the executed lease, what does it say in regards to guests. When exactly is the lease up?
  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    Florida is a landlord friendly state! Now, you have issues that need addressing....
    1. Does the tenant deliver the rent in person OR mail it? The answer will determine what the proper notice is for non-payment or partial rent payment.
    2. If you have specific defaults in the performance of the lease (such as additional tenants, etc) you can post a 7 day notice to cure or vacate. If they fail to cure, you can declare the lease terminated under Florida law and give them 7 days to vacate. If they fail, you should consult an attorney to start eviction.
    3. The fact that they paid a partial months rent does not stop you from posting a notice to pay or vacate. Non-payment of rent is a default that may be cured. Additional tenants, if in violation of the lease, may be cured. Failure to cure allows further action.

    Last but not least, you might want to reconsider your late fee structure. FYI, I don't have late fees anymore. I give my tenants a discount if they pay by the 3rd. I have not had this tested in court. If your lease does not designate late fees as additional rent, you have a problem and the court may throw that out. 

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I think you should call an eviction attorney.  But, normally, you can evict for non-payment of rent, even if they give you part of it.  

    As stated, once you serve an eviction notice, though, you should not collect any more money.

    In CA, you can't add late fees or any other fees on the eviction notice for nonpayment of rent, and if you do, you have to start all over.

    Since you aren't familiar with the process, I really think you should just hire an eviction lawyer this time around.

    It's super hard to evict tenants for additional occupants. They just lie, say they are visiting - and you have to stalk them basically, to catch them.

    But, non-payment of rent is a clincher.

    And your contract probably says that accepting late fees does not waive your right to expect rent on time.  So, even if your contract has a late fee provision, you can still file eviction on the first day they are late.  

    As an aside, you might want to consider month to month agreements in the future.  That's all I ever used.  It's just so much easier to get rid of a tenant you are no longer loving :-)

  • Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y

    Flordia is very landlord friendly, but it depends on the county judge.

    I believe the rule for partial payment changed in the last year, and you can now accept but it gets paid into court.

    Not sure, needs to be checked up.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    @Jon S. if they pay rent by mail, the rules are different than if they pay it in person at a physical address. If you do not have a physical location they pay rent to IN THE COUNTY the property is located, you cannot use a 3 day notice. A good attorney could get your notice tossed in a heartbeat. If the lease requires they mail in the rent, the proper notice is an EIGHT DAY! Yup..and the longer you let it go the closer to the end of the month they have. You might need to check statutes as well as I suspect that weekends may not count (I don't recall offhand).

  • Jeff CopelandBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    One important question that some posters seem to have missed, is do you want to evict her, or do you just want her to settle up on the late rent?

    If the latter, and the purpose of your three day notice is to cajole her into paying up, then obviously the comments about not collecting anymore money are off target. 

    But if you plan to proceed with an eviction, then you should seek legal advice. I've heard good things about www.evict.com.

    Copeland Morgan LLC4.770 Reviews
  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Jon S. if they pay rent by mail, the rules are different than if they pay it in person at a physical address. If you do not have a physical location they pay rent to IN THE COUNTY the property is located, you cannot use a 3 day notice. A good attorney could get your notice tossed in a heartbeat. If the lease requires they mail in the rent, the proper notice is an EIGHT DAY! Yup..and the longer you let it go the closer to the end of the month they have. You might need to check statutes as well as I suspect that weekends may not count (I don't recall offhand).

     The lease provides the address for payment, it doesn't specifically require that it be mailed, it specifies when it must be received. For the first 3 months, the tenant would contact me and arrange (at her request) to meet me at a nearby Panerra Bread to deliver the rent. Without asking, she started dropping off the rent by knocking on our door (at our residence which is also our business address) or placing it in our mail box. I didn't instruct her to do that, she began doing that on her own. 

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Jon S. if they pay rent by mail, the rules are different than if they pay it in person at a physical address. If you do not have a physical location they pay rent to IN THE COUNTY the property is located, you cannot use a 3 day notice. A good attorney could get your notice tossed in a heartbeat. If the lease requires they mail in the rent, the proper notice is an EIGHT DAY! Yup..and the longer you let it go the closer to the end of the month they have. You might need to check statutes as well as I suspect that weekends may not count (I don't recall offhand).

     The lease reads: 

    "RENT: TENANT Agrees to pay the monthly rent amount of $_____.00 plus any applicable sales tax as rent on the 10th day of each month in advance without demand at (NAME OF COMPANY), (ADDRESS OF COMPANY). ...   Rent must be received by LANDLORD or its designated AGENT on or before the due date. ... If rent is not recieved by the 10th day of each month, LANDLORD may serve a Three Day Notice on the next day or any day thereafter as allowed by law ... "

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Jon S. if they pay rent by mail, the rules are different than if they pay it in person at a physical address. If you do not have a physical location they pay rent to IN THE COUNTY the property is located, you cannot use a 3 day notice. A good attorney could get your notice tossed in a heartbeat. If the lease requires they mail in the rent, the proper notice is an EIGHT DAY! Yup..and the longer you let it go the closer to the end of the month they have. You might need to check statutes as well as I suspect that weekends may not count (I don't recall offhand).

     Our address is in the same county as the rental. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    @Jon S. if the lease states they MAIL the rent (rather than stating a physical address where they drop it off) then you must post an EIGHT DAY rather than a three day notice to pay or vacate. Many people assume it is a 3 day notice in Florida. NOT TRUE! 3 days if they have a physical location in the same county as the rental to remit payment. Anytime rent is mailed the 8 day notice kicks in. I brought this up in a class I was taking at the board and was told yes...but for purposes of the TEST, the correct answer is 3 days. In real life, depends...and you don't want to find out IN COURT that your notice was not valid! If the address for them to remit payment is in the same county as the rental, a 3 day notice would be valid. It would not hurt to brush up on Florida Chapter 83 Landlord-Tenant statutes. A great website for info is www.evict.com. Harry teaches at our local board and just spoke at our local REIA regarding the new regs on blanket denials of tenancy by people with criminal histores. The times are a-changin....and FAST! I question one item: the address to remit payment...is that an office or place of business with regular hours for payment to be made? My lease doesn't state the word "mail" or "mailed" but there is nobody there to accept payment in my case. Remember, you want to cover your back. Some tenants can be quite shifty...and in the end they could prevail due to a "technicality".

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y

    I called an eviction attorney and got some help on how to post the 3 day notice. There were certain details about who the landlord is now that I've transferred the property into an LLC, so their clarification that the LLC is the Landlord, and I am signing as the authorized agent for the LLC, helped, as it is important to get those details correct. They surmised that it is likely the tenant intends to pay the rest of the rent or they wouldn't have given me a partial payment of $400. However, they said with the pattern of being late for 3 months in a row, and with the increasing number of late days, and the increasing amount unpaid each time, that a pattern was forming, and they recommended that posting the notice was needed to let the tenant know it's not okay. I posted it last night at 7pm. By 8 pm I had an upset text message from the occupant with a picture of the 3 day notice, asking if it was really necessary to post it, since she had already given me a date when the rest of the rent would be paid (which conveniently falls inside of the 3 day notice period). The text message has a certain tone of surprise and anger, stating that she has "never been this late before", and she thought we had a better understanding between us than that "but apparently not", etc. Her text message is filled with attitude, and assures me "you will get your money".

    I'm not sure how to respond, or if I should respond. Part of me wants to respond in order to educate her on what a landlord expects. On the other hand, I usually don't respond to disrespectful messages, and no response means that the notice speaks for itself. Thoughts? 

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Thank you all for the help. The 3 Day Notice was effective. The notice was posted Tues which gave the tenant till Friday to pay rent (including late fees which are defined in the lease as "rent"). I got a text on Tues evening that it wasn't necessary since she was getting paid Thursday and would pay rent Thursday. Thursday I got a text saying it would be paid Fri and Fri blew by with no payment until 11:48pm when she sent a text saying it was dropped off in the mailbox. A money order was indeed in the mailbox so the rent is caught up in full. Hopefully going forward, knowing that I will post a 3 day notice will reduce late rent. At least I now know how to do it.
  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Jon S. The best advice I ever got was: "Don't blame me - blame the rules." Whether it's kids or tenants, so much confrontation can be avoided and resolved by directing emotion from a person to a piece of paper with rules, rather than the rule maker.
  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Justin R.:

    Jon S. The best advice I ever got was: "Don't blame me - blame the rules."

    Whether it's kids or tenants, so much confrontation can be avoided and resolved by directing emotion from a person to a piece of paper with rules, rather than the rule maker.

     Love it, I will use that one, probably over and over, thanks Justin. I also found another good quote from Marcia Maynard, which I used in this case:  "If you don't pay, you can't stay" 

  • South, FL · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Jon S. Hi Jon, I was reading your post and just wondering is she has been paying on time? I just closed on a property last week in Florida so reading these post are really helpful.
  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    @Erika G.

    If you are a new landlord print out Fl Statute 83 Landlord-Tenant laws. If you ever find yourself in a court you want to make sure you have done everything correctly. 

  • Jon S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    10y

    @Erika G. 

    I'll summarize what has occurred. 

    I text messaged her that the lack of communication and late payment was concerning and added in certain paraphrased phrases that were suggested by @Marcia Maynard  : "If you don't pay you can't stay" and "If you can't pay, we need to work on a move out plan". However, while those phrases were good for setting the tone and letting her know this was serious, I still had to post the 3 day notice in June, and she paid 12 minutes before the 3 day notice deadline. She was late again in July, so I reminded her by text that the rent was due, was late and that the late fee has been added. The next day I went over in person and delivered another 3 day notice. She paid the July rent andn late fee before the 3 day notice was up. She also asked if she could renew. I told her she could if she straightened out the late payment issue. It's August, the rent was due 4 days ago, and it hasn't been paid yet. On day 3, the day that the late fee was added, I texted her that the rent is late and the late fee has been added (I copied the same text from last month). No response. 

    I called this morning and she answered and said she would pay in full today, including late fee, so if she does, I won't need to post the 3 day notice. However, if she doesn't then by the end of this weekend I will post the 3 day notice. 

    While I don't understand why she is paying the rent late each month, she is paying in full. She told me her job is slow in the summer months, fewer hours, but it should pick up as soon as the fall begins. She has been keeping the apartment clean and there have been no more problems with others living there, so apparently my verbal warnings, about non-tenants who were seen living there, were sufficient for her to change that and comply with the lease. She also has not sent anymore text messages with attitude, the negative tone from a couple months ago has changed to positive and respectful dialogue. She still is not proactive, ie, she doesn't text me or call me to tell me she is going to be late with the rent. I expect if I renew the lease, she will continue to be late with the rent. However, on the bright side she does pay when she gets the 3 day notice, and she keeps the unit clean, and has otherwise been abiding by the lease. If she pays today I won't have to post the notice. I think now that I have posted the 3 day notice twice in a row she knows I will do it. Fortunately, I live only 10 minutes away so it's not a huge problem to post the 3 day notice. 

    I've thought about not renewing but my main hesitation is that while this is a beautiful unit finished to very nice standards, this is still a detached mother in law suite without it's own postal address which means it doesn't have it's own mailbox, and that one thing might automatically skew the potential applicant pool. By attracting appllicants who don't need their own mailbox, I think it would disway most higher income renters, so no matter how nice the unit is my pool of applicants is probably predisposed to having issues with lower income and paying rent late. Being a nice unit, with grantie counters, etc, it will always be rented, but the renters might all have these issues, and maybe worse issues. So do I stick with a known tenant who I now know their habits and have worked out most of the problems, or do I choose to not renew and start looking for new tenant? That is the question! 

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I favor trying to save a tenancy whenever possible. Some tenants are slower to come into line than others. When a tenant doesn't instinctively do the right thing, then they may need to be taught, with clear guidelines and meaningful consequences. Congrats on the progress you're making!

    Everything is negotiable. If it were me, this is what I would be inclined to do:

    1. Change from a long-term lease to a month-to-month rental agreement. This will allow you more flexibility if the tenant should stray again. It will also serve to keep her on her toes, since she will not be lulled into thinking her housing is secure for another year.

    2. Change the due date to the first of the month, unless there is a compelling reason for choosing the 10th. 

    3. Get to the root cause of why the tenant seems unable or unwilling to pay her rent on time. Emphasize that paying rent needs to be a top priority.

    4. If utilities are not included with the rental, then double check that she is current with these. Often tenants get behind in paying utilities before the get behind in paying rent.

    5. Re-establish your expectation that rent is paid on time each month, in a manner that works well for both of you.

    6. Re-establish that if rent is going to be late for any reason, it is paramount that the tenant contact you in advance to discuss the matter.

    7. Let the tenant know that rent is due on X date and is late the day after. Let her know the late fee will be added as soon as rent is late. Let her know if the rent and late fee are not received in a timely manner (in no more than 3 days) then you will be serving her with a legal notice to pay rent or quit.

    8. Consider using a Rent Past Due letter such as the one we use. I uploaded it into the BP File Place. You can modify it for your own needs. Go to Tools-File Place-Other Documents and look for documents with my name. We rarely need to serve a legal notice, as we give tenants this letter as soon as we realize rent is past due. It clarifies the current status, tells the tenant what they need to do and explains what will happen if they don't follow through.

    Good luck!

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