ridiculously high amount of rent

ridiculously high amount of rent

Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes

I have a small, one bedroom apartment that was filled by a property management company with a household of 4 ( 2 adults 2 children ).  Being a one bedroom 900 sq ft space I thought a household of 4 was a stretch but who am I to question a professional management company.

Two months ago the renters allowed another 4 people to move in, taking the total household size from 4 to 8 (now 4 adults and 4 children).  I filed for an eviction and it was granted but now the renters are offering to pay an extra 50% over the originally agreed upon rent if I let them live like this.

I hate the fact that each member of the household has 100 sq ft of space, I hate the fact that there is no privacy and I feel like that is no way to raise children however this is what they want and they are willing to pay for it.

What are the repercussions for creating a separate lease and allowing so many people to share such a tiny space?

On the upside, the monthly income from the building is going to jump to 8.8% of the original purchase price which is an insane return on investment.  I know I will likely have a new set of headaches in 4 months but at least I postpone those headaches until the winter months have passed.

What do you think, should I take the high rent and let them live with just 100 sq ft per person, should I go through with the eviction or are there other legal ramifications that I should be concerned about?

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Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
9y

There is no way they are living like that and not tearing up the unit.

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  • Investor · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 955 votes
    9y

    @Nicholas Miller

    I think the key thing is to check with your local village / county if they have specific requirements for rentals. 2nd thing is to check with your HOA, and the last thing is your insurance company.

    Some suburbs here in chicago area has some requirements on a rental which a landlord will never be able to fit so many people in a small living space. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    You have a city occupancy violation possibly superseding any kind of lease agreement. Too many people in one area is not hygienic or safe.
  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    KEEP the EVICTION ACTION and GET THEM OUT.

    Ya better check your zoning regulations.. 

    Usually limit on One bedroom is 2 people. 2 Br 4 people,, studio 1 person. so basically not more than 2 people per bedroom.. this is like sardines, how many can you fit in a can.. 

    Your property management company is partly to blame but OMG.. this is really overboard...

    You really need to find out your state laws for rental so you know what to expect from your property management company,, and city regulations as all apply to your rental property and license.

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    9y

    There is no way they are living like that and not tearing up the unit.

  • Property Manager · Cumming, GA · Member since 2015 · 261 posts · 199 votes
    9y

    Basing decisions solely on money is typically always the wrong decision.

  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    8 people in a 1 bedroom apartment? That HAS to be a code violation......I just checked, it is. Regardless of local zoning, the federal occupancy limits are below:

    "Section 503(b) of the Uniform Housing Code sets the minimum size for a dwelling. Each dwelling must have at least one room measuring at least 120 square feet; and all other habitable rooms (excluding kitchens) must be at least 70 square feet. The minimum dwelling size determines the maximum occupancy rate. Two people can occupy a minimum-sized dwelling. For each additional occupant, the minimum must increase by 50 square feet. The Code acknowledges that certain dwellings may be configured to allow a third person to comfortably sleep in non-bedroom space, and that infants and very young children can share their parents' room."

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    "but who am I to question a professional management company "

    @Nicholas Miller

    I really thought that  part of your original post was most concerning,,  but also was this...

    "or are there other legal ramifications that I should be concerned about?"

    As the owner it falls on your head, to know your business, especially if you loose your license, or get sued, your the owner. It's rather foolish of you to think about how much money you were going to make if you let them live there and continue on, collecting more rent.. 

    It makes the rest of us doing what we can, for our properties, wondering how you are not getting fined, or worse, and are still in business. 

    This sounds harsh, If I had a term for this type of rental property ownership and  management it would be: not worth mentioning.. 

  • Professional · Grants Pass, OR · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 77 votes
    9y

    You should also consider WHY they would want to live this way. My guess is that someone in the household would not qualify for another rental, which is why they are willing to concede on space in order to stay at your property. The fact that they are willing to pay more money to stay at your place confirms that it's not about saving money, more about the fear of getting denied somewhere else. That being said, IF the new occupants would fail some other tenant screening requirements, do you really want them living in your property. It is bound to cause problems down the road. 

    If you decide the extra rental income is worth it (and you check with occupancy laws), make sure to require the new adults submit an application that allows you to check their credit report, eviction history and criminal record. Also consider a higher deposit, 8 people (especially with kids) is going to put a lot of wear on your property.

  • Specialist · Buffalo, N · Member since 2013 · 59 posts · 46 votes
    9y

    Most cities have regulations regarding minimum (living area) square feet per person.  Call your city/village or look online for your code and don't violate it.  If your city has no restrictions, it defaults to your state code.

  • HVAC Tech · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 223 votes
    9y

    Who is the pm

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    9y

    They will kill each other in that small of a  house

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
    9y

    @Deanna McCormick let me throw another element into the equation, the tenants were not properly screened by the management company that placed them.  Both households have had multiple evictions, the last being two months ago for the new arrivals and two weeks ago filed by me for those originally placed by the management company.  The only income is SSI, a minimum wage job that has been established for two weeks and money from donating plasma.  

    Both households have open cases with CPS and they have been told that if they become homeless or move into a motel they will lose custody of their children.  While at eviction court I advised them to look into the salvation army, the rescue mission and other non-profits who house the homeless as I knew this would be an uphill battle for them to find a legitimate new home but there is no vacancy in these establishments and they have been turned down by every landlord they have applied with.

    There are two non-profits willing to pay some of the rent to keep the renters in my unit and from becoming homeless and losing their children to foster care and CPS has inspected the unit with the 8 occupants and is allowing the living situation.  

    I didn't feel comfortable when I found that the unit was housing 4, I am perplexed that they fit 8 in the unit.  But the circumstances are not promising either way.  On Monday I can cash the check from the church that is helping them stay housed and file a dismissal with the court.  Or, on Monday, I can file for writ of possession, have the Sherrif come remove them from the home and subsequently make 4 adults homeless and put 4 children into foster care.

  • Lake Jackson, TX · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 34 votes
    9y

    I would personally  see the situation if the tenants look like meth heads  eviction if they look like hardworking law obiden  citizens down on Thier  luck rent it. I would not recommend  asking the  city officials  or hoa anything they are going  to tell you no.  I don't see why you hate 8 people  living on a small apartment maybe you just TAPPED INTO A NICHE  and don't  know  it

  • Lake Jackson, TX · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 34 votes
    9y

    I did not read your last  post evict

  • Missy H.Pro Member
    Investor · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 121 votes
    9y

    Evict them now.....

    No good deed goes unpunished.  As many posters have written, there is a housing law limiting the number of people who can live in a 1 BR house.  Don't break the law.

  • Investor · Rigby, ID · Member since 2016 · 52 posts · 45 votes
    9y

    I would question the management company. The more people which inhabit a unit, the more damage which is likely to occur. With a 1 bedroom apartment at 900 square feet, I would argue 3-4 is your max occupancy limit. The management company should have a clause in their lease which defines who lives in the unit (by name) and the total number of people who can live in the unit. They also should have the solution if more than that number occurs. 

    I would be having serious discussions about the management companies decision and taking steps to remove excessive people (not on the original lease).  I would even suggest that the management company pay for the eviction as they were the cause of the issue. Read the lease and your agreement with the company. Then act and take the appropriate steps.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Your are basically reducing your property to the level of slum housing. Is this in a C/D class neighbourhood where the residents won't care what is happening to their community.

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @John Casmon:

    8 people in a 1 bedroom apartment? That HAS to be a code violation......I just checked, it is. Regardless of local zoning, the federal occupancy limits are below:

    "Section 503(b) of the Uniform Housing Code sets the minimum size for a dwelling. Each dwelling must have at least one room measuring at least 120 square feet; and all other habitable rooms (excluding kitchens) must be at least 70 square feet. The minimum dwelling size determines the maximum occupancy rate. Two people can occupy a minimum-sized dwelling. For each additional occupant, the minimum must increase by 50 square feet. The Code acknowledges that certain dwellings may be configured to allow a third person to comfortably sleep in non-bedroom space, and that infants and very young children can share their parents' room."

    I'm in agreement with the majority that you shouldn't allow eight people to stay in your one-bedroom, but I just learned from John here that it is legal, provided you don't have local regulations barring it (and you likely do). If I'm reading this correctly, you only need 420 sqft of habitable space to house eight people (120 for the first two, and 50 per person for the other 6). I wouldn't do it, but it appears to be legal.

  • Investor · Santa Rosa Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 232 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    Typically, the max occupancy code is 2-3 people/bedroom. So your PM blew that and then didn't properly screen them to boot. Time to clean house. I would proceed with the eviction and either learn how to RENT IT YOURSELF or find a new PM. 

    While the extra income is attractive, you have to ask yourself why they are willing to pay so much to avoid moving. That is a big red flag for me. 

    If you need any help, don't hesitate to ask. 

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Your in to deep with this. simple they are used to evictions and aren't unfamiliar with the process they know they will have to go, they've had to go before. 

    Follow thru and get it taken care of.

    If you feel a moral responsibility tell them you'll  give funds to the church on their behalf so they can help them find housing. They have shelters for families like this and sounds like that's what they need. maybe for the kids sake, it's best CPS take control of the family temporarily which could help them all get back on there feet. Theses families realize it's a ticking time bomb and it's ready to explode. 

    Your property management company is the craps.. and interesting you were ready to give them all the blame but don't have a problem considering cashing the check.

    If you permit this in one unit you would probably need to permit it in the rest of the building. So now your running your own shelter. 

  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Jacob Pereira it's still NOT legal as a second bedroom is needed for the 4th adult (and additional kids). It says one person can use a non-bedroom (not including small children). Local regulations still apply, but to be crystal clear the 8 people in a one bedroom is not legal from a federal level.
  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Clearly from reviewing  posts , it's rather obvious that landlord's need to establish occupancy rules that follow the guidelines of their city code and know that code.

  • Investor · Mt. Laurel, NJ · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    Here's my question: If they're willing to pay 50% more... why not just move into a larger apartment?

  • Specialist · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2016 · 355 posts · 191 votes
    9y

    Well, you're in the situation now. Let the non-profits help them get into a new place--I certainly wouldn't kick them out immediately and be responsible for putting kids into foster care and permanently traumatizing them. I rented to an older couple with awful credit once--they couldn't even get the water in their names, so I had to pay it and add it to the rent every month. They were so sweet and grateful--they always paid on time. Sometimes people need a break. 

  • Investor · Enid, OK · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    You sound like you want to keep them for now.  And while I wouldn't recommend it, I have thoughts on what to do if you do keep them.

    1. Add a bedroom or two.  Whether that means rearranging your current floor plan or adding on to your apartment, it should be financed by the nonprofits that want to use your apartment as a shelter.

    2. Prepare for pets.  Doesn't matter what your lease says, they will bring pets to your apartment. Don't even bother to protest, because they will be "service animals".  So embrace the pets and ceramic tile everything. Again this is an expense the nonprofit should pay for.

    3. Put Mandatory Drug and Alcohol testing in your lease.  There's probably more than one reason CPS is after them.  Do those kids a huge favor by making sure their parents stay/get sober. 

    4. Become a foster parent or adopt some needy children. After your future discussions with CPS, you will feel saddened/motivated to do it then, so might as well start the paperwork now. 

    5. Increase your insurance coverage.  Expect a fire.  Expect a meth explosion. Expect a lawsuit.  Hopefully it won't happen, but plan for the worst.

    These were just some thoughts, a little over the top, but maybe helpful.  I understand you want to help them and also make extra money. There's usually a lot of drama involved in these situations. It's up to you how involved in this drama that you want to be.  If you really are that nice, maybe you should adopt.

    Good luck with everything.

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