How to legally SUBLEASE a month-to-month without contract
Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes
How to legally SUBLEASE a month-to-month without contract
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
9y"I'm worried that if I tell you he would get greedy..."
"I'm worried that if I tell him he would get greedy..."
Hypocritical much?
It would be acceptable if you did it with the owner's knowledge but you're talking about doing it behind his back. Based on what you've written, I would categorize this as theft.
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- Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 885 votes9y
Equity and rent skimming are illegal where I come from. It's also immoral and will cause your left little toe to curl up in spasms.
- Investor · Padstow New South Wales, Australia · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 27 votes9y
Yes, I agree about the scumbag part.
Modifying a property without permission is not allowed.
Let me tell you my experience with subletting.
I had a tenant, a 25 yo single male who was approved to rent out one of my apartments in Akron, Ohio. He was a good tenant who always paid his rent on time and never caused any problems. After 6 months into a 12 month lease he asked my p/m about the possibility of breaking his lease because he had to move back to Masachusetts, he was informed that if he had the property in rent ready condition and allowed showings that once a qualified tenant was chosen to replace him that he would only be charged rent until the new tenants moved in and that he would get back his security deposit. Quite fair on my behalf I thought.
In his infinite wisdom instead of accepting my offer he decided to sublet, he didn't perform any background checks, credit checks or have any form of lease signed, in fact he did not even properly identify them. Needless to say they never paid him any rent, he covered it up the first month by paying rent himself, then when they never paid the second month he came clean to my p/m and admitted what he did. In the meantime the squatters had the locks changed and wont respond to any notices posted on the door. Then I had to start the eviction process against my original tenant, it has now just finished in court and the eviction has been granted, just waiting till Tuseday for the bailiff to throw their belongings onto the sidewalk. Luckily I have security cameras installed so I can keep a new he only on thing, unfortunately it looks like they're dealing drugs.
- Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes9y
Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
Originally posted by @Francesco Barbati:
Why do you (and everyone else reading this post) think I was going behind his back? Because I was planning on subleasing it for higher than the original rent? Is that not a common practice??
Because you started off that you wanted a way for him to not know you were doing this. Then when we told you that is wrong, you tried to justify it because you've made improvements to the property. My point was that if you made improvements to the property, that's a separate deal from your rent and you should've been paid accordingly.
Want to do it right? Get a written lease, and attach an addendum that if you sublet the subleasee is not subject to landlord approval. Then you can put whoever you want in there for whatever price - but you'll still be responsible to the landlord for your lease amount every month.
I see now. I wasn't justifying anything simply because I didn't feel like I had to, I was trying to give more history about the relationship between the parts.
I would feel dishonest if I was not taking my responsibilities in the process, but I understand now that is only a side, it is definitely dishonest legally. Thank god I asked on BP!
I agree with having everything in writing, but the problem is that we don't have any contract, everything is verbal, so this one would be the first contract and on top of that he lives on the other side of the country.
- Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes9y
Originally posted by @Levi T.:
Originally posted by @Francesco Barbati:
Originally posted by @Robert Nason:
I think it's your betrayal of someone who's done something very nice for you that is upsetting people
Wait a second! Who do you think was doing something very nice to who?
I would expect experienced investors been able to read between the lines, but I was wrong again.
The fact that I was renting below market value does not mean that I was renting below the "rentable" value of the place, and the fact that I was rehabbing it myself should have been a clear indication of that. He would have never been able to rent that place, and it would have kept not being able to pay the HOA (and subsequently risking to lose the place) and get in more trouble. Since it was obviously conveniente more me also to move there, and not only financially but for family reasons, I said ok, let's help each other out (I am very humble and frugal and don't need to live in mansion) and at the end it turned out that I was helping him more that the other way around and keep in mind this is only a part of the whole story. I have also paid rent much earlier when he need it.
I would expect seasoned investors and mature folks not to just read a couple of line, get emotional like teens and spew opinions or insult some one they don't even know, but on the other hand I admit I completely failed in telling the story, conveying a message, and asking the right questions so I apologize again and I thank every one for his time and critics, and I also apologize for pissing people off.
I should probably take more time think thoroughly before posting, but circumstances don't always help.
You really need to take two steps back and remove your personal interest in this property. Verbally or not, friends or not, tenants do not have the legal right to modify a property unless they got it in writing. Regardless of how you want to look at it, your landlord (that is what he is) never owes you anything.
I have seen hundreds of lease agreements where tenants have to fix and repair everything at their expense, and if a tenant took a junky condo and turned it into a multi million dollar condo on their own dime, and the owner sold it, the well that's the tenants dumb luck. Don't invest into something you don't own!
Legally he can sue you for modifying his property, if the modification improved the property or not. Without a written agreement that clearly outlines that you can sublease, well, he could sue you for that as well. Most states, if not all states, do not allow a 3rd party to act as a real estate agent for someone, so you could get in trouble for that as well.No matter your moral view on this, or what you feel you are owed, you have zero rights in the property unless it was given in writing, and you are fully liable on the flip side. Clearly your not happy that you invested a lot of your time and money to improve the property, and feel the LL is getting a better deal, but that is your own fault for investing in something you do not own.
My advice is you keep renting it and enjoy the rents he is leasing it to you for, or move on and let him do what he may with it.
Legally if you want to sublease it, you need to get a written lease from him saying you can sublease it. With $100 cashflow per month between what you would owe him and the sublessee would pay, your going to lose your shirt big time. I would not touch that with a 10 foot poll if I owed the property. Your better off offering to get it rented for him, then charge him $100 a month for taking care of business on behalf of him without all the risk on your end, but then you get into the entire real estate licenses thing.
That clarifies a lot for me. I was not aware of many laws here, honestly now doesn't make sense anymore. Thanks for you time!
- Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes9y
Originally posted by @Saad Khan:
Matthew Olszak You're right, he would need to be licensed. I was under the impression that he was an agent but I was wrong he's not.
No, I can't do that. I can't do anything I had in mind actually.
- Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes9y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Equity and rent skimming are illegal where I come from. It's also immoral and will cause your left little toe to curl up in spasms.
I am learning it. I didn't even know this terms. In my lala-land ignorance it didn't feel like a big deal since I didn't have any sinister plans and I would have take all my responsibilities. "Not good! Wake up Francesco!"
- Real Estate Professional · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 17 votes9y
Originally posted by @Laurence K.:
Yes, I agree about the scumbag part.
Modifying a property without permission is not allowed.
Let me tell you my experience with subletting.
I had a tenant, a 25 yo single male who was approved to rent out one of my apartments in Akron, Ohio. He was a good tenant who always paid his rent on time and never caused any problems. After 6 months into a 12 month lease he asked my p/m about the possibility of breaking his lease because he had to move back to Masachusetts, he was informed that if he had the property in rent ready condition and allowed showings that once a qualified tenant was chosen to replace him that he would only be charged rent until the new tenants moved in and that he would get back his security deposit. Quite fair on my behalf I thought.
In his infinite wisdom instead of accepting my offer he decided to sublet, he didn't perform any background checks, credit checks or have any form of lease signed, in fact he did not even properly identify them. Needless to say they never paid him any rent, he covered it up the first month by paying rent himself, then when they never paid the second month he came clean to my p/m and admitted what he did. In the meantime the squatters had the locks changed and wont respond to any notices posted on the door. Then I had to start the eviction process against my original tenant, it has now just finished in court and the eviction has been granted, just waiting till Tuseday for the bailiff to throw their belongings onto the sidewalk. Luckily I have security cameras installed so I can keep a new he only on thing, unfortunately it looks like they're dealing drugs.
That's good. I agree with you and at least agreeing you prove you took the time to get a couple of post further than Robert...
Jokes aside, I feel bed about your story man. Must be tough to deal with that s**t and definitely stressful but I still don't understand what insulting brings to the BP community (and I would have thought it would not been allowed in the community). I keep proving my limits I guess. Working in progress, I promise.
Even if your tale doesn't resemble my situation, or at least the people involved, it helps me understand why experienced landlords reacts so "intensely". I am truly sorry I am pissing people off, I didn't mean to.
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