Full disclosure -- I knew things were probably coming to this. I've had to send overdue notices several times this year, and a notice to quit twice (this is the third). I tried to work with my tenant but they simply do not respond...
...and now I am here. They are 8 days overdue on rent, and I sent a notice to pay/quit yesterday. I've e-mailed both co-tenants with no response. I tried calling their cell phone and it has been disconnected. I stopped by the property a few days ago -- windows were open -- knocked on the door twice, no response.
I know they don't have the money to pay. I am ready to just follow a cash for keys method, but I can't establish communication!
I want to stop by the property during the day and thinking of giving 24 hour notice, just because. I think I'm allowed to do this with the proper notice.
Any thoughts/guidance?
@Joe P. They're ducking you because they know they are about to be evicted. Write up a quick note (casual, handwritten) with something like, "Trying to reach you to discuss how we can avoid an eviction - please call me asap so we can work this out [phone #]". Throw it in an envelope and tape it to the front door, the back door, the garage door, their car door, and anywhere else you can think of. Text, vm, and email that same message to them.
Likely you won't get a call, so in a day or 2 go back and knock. Either they'll think they can continue to take advantage of you and they won't answer, or they were truly concerned about being evicted and now they'll answer because they'll think you are there to help.
Either way, get the eviction process moving along with proper notices, filings, etc. You can't afford to let them continue to buy time, this is the point where you've got to switch into damage-control mode and get them out as fast as possible for as little as possible. Take the stand with them that you don't want them to pay you the rent, you want them out asap, and what ($) is it going to take for them to make that happen in less than a week.
Cash for keys will likely not work because if they had no money and somewhere to go they likely would have done so by now. Just start the eviction process and let the process play out from there.
Hey all -- I actually drove by last night around ~11 PM and they are still there. I should have mentioned I check on the property frequently as it is in my neighborhood.
I don't think there are any rules for a "drop-in" -- not entering the property but simply stopping by. Normally I provide notice but they're clearly avoiding me. I think I will do that tonight around 8 or 9 PM as they are clearly home.
If I were you, I'd be very concerned for the tenants safety and well being. What if there was an accident in the house and they are both in desperate need of medical attention and can't get to a phone? If I were you, I'd call the non-emergency police number and tell the dispatcher your concerns. You'd like to meet an officer at the house, you know, just to make sure your tenants are safe.
I have found pay or quit notices to be a VERY effective way to start a conversation.
My tenant seems to be the exception on this.
A few months ago, we were down this same path. I sent a notice to quit/pay, and on the last day before filing, they finally responded with the sob story. They had my money, etc., so I went to grab it from them in person, and they no-showed. Filed for court the next morning and then suddenly things got moving -- I got paid and canceled the court case.
I think we'll be headed down the same path. Unfortunately, this is their last month of the lease and my plan was to not renew (obviously...) and sell the house to begin my BRRRR path. The house has no cash flow but enough equity for me to start the cash flow path with other rentals. This is all put on hold now while this situation plays out.
As long as your document your 24 hour notice to enter, you should be good
I don't believe they have to respond
@Chris Purcell I was talking moreso about dropping by tonight around 8 or 9 PM -- I drove by last night and they were home around 11 PM; lights were on, etc. Just seeing if I can establish communication.
Hey all, so here's an update (if you're interested):
At the end of the notice to quit period, I swung by the house on my way to the Philly landlord court to file eviction -- there was a note on the door asking me to write my phone number because they didn't have it, and have no internet connection/e-mail capability (LOL...in 2017...the things people come up with as excuses). You've been a tenant for 2 years, I e-mail you a few times a month, you have my number and my e-mail.
Anyway, I wrote my number down and went to court to file. We have a court date on September 11th. Of course, e-mails started flying in -- I thought my roommate paid, I'm so sorry, we should have the money in a few days, etc.
I stopped by thereafter and gave them a copy of the court page (they'll receive an official notification anyway, but I wanted to hammer home the point), and I told them this could have been avoided, but when you radio silence for 3 weeks its hard for me to not follow my pre-defined procedures. They appeared real sad, but I think I know this game. They said they would have their money as soon as possible (still no money as of today) and they're back to not answering my e-mails.
Their lease is up at the end of the month and I told them I would not renew based on what I am seeing. They said they would be out by the 31st and pay the rent; both of which I think is unlikely. We'll head to court on the 11th I'm sure.
Any advice/recommendations at this point? I am going to let court handle this, but this is really killing my overall plan. I was trying to get the house on the market by the end of the month...
@Joe P. Where is the property at?
@Joe P. Where is the property at?
he stated this previously in this thread.
It's in South Philly by the Italian Market.
For the law-knowledgeable; if the tenant does not move out by the 31st but DOES pay the rent, can I still go to court on the 11th of September because they're now staying past the lease end date?
Hi @Susan H., they ended up moving out. As a reminder it was a younger couple who clearly had fallen on hard times. The young lady did not have a high-income producing job but was helping to support their finances, and the gentleman was a contract-worker for a mid to high end furniture crafting business. Needless to say, their income wasn't always guaranteed and was always supplanted by some sob story about how they had to send money to parents, the dog was sick, etc.
A long story short, I think the gentleman had a bit more pride than the young lady and started to feel the pressure of missing payments. We had a conversation about the lease coming up and that they would need to be vacated by that time. There were a few things that I asked him to take care of but honestly, they left the place a mess. They had a dog and I'm fairly certain they stopped providing good care for him, and he would poop in the house. This attracted flies and mice and ruined hardwoods put in only a few years ago. Even after cleaning the place well, repainting, etc., I could never fully get the smell gone.
At this time I had become more in tune with BP and realized that I was supporting this property with very little cash flow and too many headaches. Even at optimum rent (~1500 per month) I had purchased the property for 190,000 on a FHA loan -- I was barely covering my PITI payments with full occupancy. I decided to cut my losses and sold the property for a small amount of proceeds, which I am using for the next purchase (under contract for a duplex with 1750 per month rent, but 103,000 sale price) - truly a better performing property.
And if anyone is interested in some advice on the ordeal, I have tons:
Hope all of this information is helpful to you and others.
Hi @Susan H., they ended up moving out. As a reminder it was a younger couple who clearly had fallen on hard times. The young lady did not have a high-income producing job but was helping to support their finances, and the gentleman was a contract-worker for a mid to high end furniture crafting business. Needless to say, their income wasn't always guaranteed and was always supplanted by some sob story about how they had to send money to parents, the dog was sick, etc.
A long story short, I think the gentleman had a bit more pride than the young lady and started to feel the pressure of missing payments. We had a conversation about the lease coming up and that they would need to be vacated by that time. There were a few things that I asked him to take care of but honestly, they left the place a mess. They had a dog and I'm fairly certain they stopped providing good care for him, and he would poop in the house. This attracted flies and mice and ruined hardwoods put in only a few years ago. Even after cleaning the place well, repainting, etc., I could never fully get the smell gone.
At this time I had become more in tune with BP and realized that I was supporting this property with very little cash flow and too many headaches. Even at optimum rent (~1500 per month) I had purchased the property for 190,000 on a FHA loan -- I was barely covering my PITI payments with full occupancy. I decided to cut my losses and sold the property for a small amount of proceeds, which I am using for the next purchase (under contract for a duplex with 1750 per month rent, but 103,000 sale price) - truly a better performing property.
And if anyone is interested in some advice on the ordeal, I have tons:
Hope all of this information is helpful to you and others.
Where ever did you find a duplex in phila for $103K? Is it a fixer upper?
Joe Papp thx for sharing your experience. If you happen to have an attorney u worked with to draft a tight lease agreement, would you mind PM me the contact? I’m hoping to avoid this myself.
I did not consult with an attorney and my next lease will not be in Philadelphia/Pennsylvania. However I'm happy to pass along the attorney's name when the next lease is constructed.
Sorry to hear that your experience did not go well. One quick comment about your lease: often times, drafters of many "generic" leases often write it so that it's "fair." In most situations, I think that is a mistake. The reality is that most tenants are not going to argue about the fine details of the lease. So my general advice is to stack the lease in the landlord's favor as much as possible. That way, you have the option to decide if you want to make an exception on a case-by-case basis.
I forget where I saw it, but there was this model lease circulated that some nonprofits circulated along with I believe the Philadelphia Bar Association. I can't recall all the details but it had that problem of trying to be "fair" to both the landlord and the tenant. That's nice but why should a landlord voluntarily surrender protection that he or she can have under the law? That kind of drafting drives me nuts.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
@Chris K. right you are, and the next lease I write I plan to either gin something up on my own and have an attorney review it, or ask them to create one from scratch with things I am concerned with as a landlord. Every landlord has different pain points -- I don't want to spend my days wondering where my money is or waiting to take tenants to court. They pay, or they don't and there are stiff/immediate penalties, and then they're out just as quickly. Within the bounds of the law and being as far as possible, that's how I want my next lease to be written.
@Joe P. Thank you for your story and the tips and glad it worked out at the end despite all the headaches. I had a similar story of one tenant who was early on rent the first 3 months and then late the next 9 months but was able to work out a deal with him where I told him I wouldn't charge him rent the last month (but kept his deposit) if he moved out a few days before the end of the month and he agreed so I was able to slide a tenant in the 1st of the next month. Thankfully, that tenant DID clean the room minus vacuuming his carpet which I ended up doing myself, he didn't have any animals either so NDB for me.
I am currently having an issue with another tenant who pays on-time to early every month but is a hoarder (in his room of a shared living situation) that has caused a fruit fly infestation (for the whole house) and fire hazard (for his room at least). I went to court recently and lost because I didn't have a rent with reservation clause in my notice to quit and even though my notice to quit wasn't involving pay, it was deemed that he had remedied the notice to quit by me continuing to collect his rent payments. I'm gonna start a new thread about it tho but just wanted to share it my stories as well.
My tenant will not return calls or text messages, and hung up the phone when they saw my number. They refuse to reply. What can I do? They are late rent payers every month, but they pay. Now since Trump made the announcements about mortgages, are tenants going to act crazy now? I thought we were good with one another until now. What do I do? Call police to try to gain access, after I put a 48hr notice to inspect property. I went by and saw new doors on front and back, so my keys no longer works and I need them to respond ASAP. So I can get update keys. What to do?
I want to sell my property ASAP, but the tenants are not cooperating or responding. What can I do to get them out so I can sell. This mortgage forgiveness is not forever. My lender said 2 months, then what? I am going to sell my home regardless. Any advice on how to do this