Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
Full disclosure -- I knew things were probably coming to this. I've had to send overdue notices several times this year, and a notice to quit twice (this is the third). I tried to work with my tenant but they simply do not respond...
...and now I am here. They are 8 days overdue on rent, and I sent a notice to pay/quit yesterday. I've e-mailed both co-tenants with no response. I tried calling their cell phone and it has been disconnected. I stopped by the property a few days ago -- windows were open -- knocked on the door twice, no response.
I know they don't have the money to pay. I am ready to just follow a cash for keys method, but I can't establish communication!
I want to stop by the property during the day and thinking of giving 24 hour notice, just because. I think I'm allowed to do this with the proper notice.
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Joe P. They're ducking you because they know they are about to be evicted. Write up a quick note (casual, handwritten) with something like, "Trying to reach you to discuss how we can avoid an eviction - please call me asap so we can work this out [phone #]". Throw it in an envelope and tape it to the front door, the back door, the garage door, their car door, and anywhere else you can think of. Text, vm, and email that same message to them.
Likely you won't get a call, so in a day or 2 go back and knock. Either they'll think they can continue to take advantage of you and they won't answer, or they were truly concerned about being evicted and now they'll answer because they'll think you are there to help.
Either way, get the eviction process moving along with proper notices, filings, etc. You can't afford to let them continue to buy time, this is the point where you've got to switch into damage-control mode and get them out as fast as possible for as little as possible. Take the stand with them that you don't want them to pay you the rent, you want them out asap, and what ($) is it going to take for them to make that happen in less than a week.
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Joe P. They're ducking you because they know they are about to be evicted. Write up a quick note (casual, handwritten) with something like, "Trying to reach you to discuss how we can avoid an eviction - please call me asap so we can work this out [phone #]". Throw it in an envelope and tape it to the front door, the back door, the garage door, their car door, and anywhere else you can think of. Text, vm, and email that same message to them.
Likely you won't get a call, so in a day or 2 go back and knock. Either they'll think they can continue to take advantage of you and they won't answer, or they were truly concerned about being evicted and now they'll answer because they'll think you are there to help.
Either way, get the eviction process moving along with proper notices, filings, etc. You can't afford to let them continue to buy time, this is the point where you've got to switch into damage-control mode and get them out as fast as possible for as little as possible. Take the stand with them that you don't want them to pay you the rent, you want them out asap, and what ($) is it going to take for them to make that happen in less than a week.
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Doubt cash for keys will work, Post pay or quit, take a photo of it on the door, tape it right over the lock. Next step file.
If you get any response from them after the posting pay or quit you could say if you agree to vacate in 3 days, be out agree that I can change the locks on that date, I'll postpone the eviction but you have to sign the move out agreement and leave place clean.
Good luck.
Next time Pay or quit on the 3rd.. don't wait.. or what ever your state law is for posting pay quit notices.
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Matthew Olszak I appreciate the info; could that handwritten note be used against me in court? I don't think they'll respond but I don't want it to come back and bite me in eviction court, if I am headed that way.
@John Thedford I posted the notice to quit/pay yesterday. I taped it to their door and e-mailed them a copy. PA law requires 10 days to pay or quit, so they have until the 17th.
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Joe P. I'm not a lawyer of course but I don't see how it'll hurt you. You're simply offering to discuss the tenant's options with them - they can get caught up within the statutory timeframe, they can move asap and take your cash-for-keys offer, or they can have the sheriff throw them out.
Doubt cash for keys will work, Post pay or quit, take a photo of it on the door, tape it right over the lock. Next step file.
If you get any response from them after the posting pay or quit you could say if you agree to vacate in 3 days, be out agree that I can change the locks on that date, I'll postpone the eviction but you have to sign the move out agreement and leave place clean.
Good luck.
Next time Pay or quit on the 3rd.. don't wait.. or what ever your state law is for posting pay quit notices.
Our lease agreement gives them a 5-day grace period. I'm going to start posting notice to quit the moment that expires moving forward. PA law requires 10 days for action on notice to quit, so I'm already in the middle of the month when I go to schedule eviction court.
My next lease is going to have a shorter grace period, and I believe if noted in my lease, I can have a shorter notice to quit period as well. I'll double check for the next tenant.
Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes
9y
Odd time for a tenant to be acting funky. How many times in the past 11 months have they tendered a late-payment *along with the late fees for your notices to quit*?
I know it isn't what you want to hear: I agree with others on here; I'd invest in my lawyer's eviction services. I'd delve into the statute to see if I can hold them financially liable during the time my unit sits while I find a new tenant.
It seems you might've chosen to do this earlier this year.
You need to study your state codes and follow through immediately with a notice to not renew their lease. You will then likely need to evict so learn the law and prepare to follow through. Now is not the time to waste waiting to hear from them. Every day you stall will cost you more money in the end.
For your next tenant put them on M2M and then if they pay late give notice immediately to non renew. Never waste your time chasing bad tenants.
For your next tenant put them on M2M and then if they pay late give notice immediately to non renew. Never waste your time chasing bad tenants.
I still find this limiting in the ability to recover anything more than your property. What's more is that you could have 2 or 3 back-to-back eviction situations in the same year on a M2M. Whatever, its your broken business model.
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
In my experience with these multiple deals over time, your notice should also state "this notice supercedes all previous notices to vacate" at the bottom.
Also be sure to serve 'unknown occupant(s)' separately. Don't want a friend or someone else hanging around when this turd is removed!
Mail everything in addition to posting. Regular postal mail, just in case. I've seen solid cases thrown out for missing little stuff in the serving process. Good luck @Joe P.!
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Chris Purcell - South Philadelphia (near Italian Market).
Their lease was up last year and we put in another renewal, which ends this month. They owe the monthly rent for August. I won't be renewing, obviously.
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Joe P. Maybe they are "living out their deposit" (in their minds)? I'd recommend staying the course of eviction or cash. You don't want Sept 1 to roll around and then have them say the need a few weeks more to find a new place, etc etc.
@Joe P. Maybe they are "living out their deposit" (in their minds)? I'd recommend staying the course of eviction or cash. You don't want Sept 1 to roll around and then have them say the need a few weeks more to find a new place, etc etc.
Agreed -- I plan to follow through with the eviction right went the notice to quit period ends. I've sent them a side note as well saying I'd like to work this out, but I'm not hopeful. Unless a miracle happens, I probably will be going to eviction court in mid-September, so I'm expecting this to drag out for some time.
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
9y
@Joe P. it sounds to me like they figure security deposit is last months rent. They probably used August rent money for a deposit on the next place. My guess is they plan to midnight move out and just avoid you. As others stated you need to evict them just in case they are not planning on leaving.
I would post 24 hour notice to enter because it is possible they already moved out or are in the process of moving. It is good for you to see the condition of the property. I would post the notice to enter for 7:30PM and then show up at 7PM. Oops you got there a little early. Best case you will talk to them, worst case you can see and photograph the condition of the property.
On your notice to enter, state that it is a "welfare check of the tenant/property due to lack of response/communication". Since they are not responding to you, you are genuinely worried and had no choice but to enter. Ideally take someone with you as a witness.
Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I'm tending to agree with Joe. It's likely August rent money has been spent on a deposit on the next place.
In addition, many tenants are under the mistaken assumption that a landlord won't file for an eviction during the last month of their lease since, by the time one goes through the entire process, the lease has typically ended anyway.
By the way, I have filed during the last month of a tenancy if the rent hasn't been paid.
I suppose the good news is if they're moving out at the end of their lease you can save that money you were thinking of forking over on that cash for keys business.
It is, however, frustrating when a tenant won't communicate with you. Unfortunately, not uncommon when rent is owed. The "head in the sand" approach is one used by many such tenants.
You have many issues to consider. Some thoughts that come to my mind:
1. Notice to Quit/Lease. Pennsylvania law allows the tenant to waive the right to receive a notice to quit. I always include such language in the lease. Check your lease to see if such language exists. As a practical matter, I would still recommend that you give the notice to quit (for various reasons). But if you are desperate, I suppose you can rely on that clause (if it exists) to file for eviction now.
2. Checking the Property. If you have concerns that the tenants are trashing the place, I would follow @Matthew Olszak and post a notice to enter the property. Again, double check your lease to see what it says. You may want to do so anyway before you file the eviction complaint to see the extent of damages (if any).
3. Documenting Communication. When it comes to documenting communication, I typically prefer to send stuff by certified mail, return receipt requested. Nothing wrong with posting things, but I've found that judges have an easier time believing the USPS over conflicting testimony between landlord and tenant.
4. Eviction Complaint & Strategy. As you recognize, you want to post/send the notice to quit as soon as there is a default. If you do end up filing the eviction complaint, you may be better off following through so that you can officially get possession of the property.
If you want to be extra protective, you may want to consider doing the following. During the application process (or using the tenant-estoppel certificate if you are inheriting the tenants), try to get their job information and bank account information. You may also want to keep track of what bank the tenants are using to pay the rent. After you get your judgment from magistrate court, you can follow the steps to enter the judgment in the Court of Common Pleas. You can then file necessary writs to garnish the wages (one of the few times you can do this in Pennsylvania) and also seize any money in the bank account.
Frankly, the above steps go far more than what an average landlord does. You may not even enjoy the benefits unless you have certain tools available to you. But in some cases, it could be very helpful (e.g. student housing with parents on the lease).
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it as legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
Portland, ME · Member since 2012 · 616 posts · 550 votes
9y
Yes, definitely do the 24 hour notice of intent to enter and get in there to see what's going on. I've had this happen to me several times, and often the tenant has moved out. They think they're somehow winning, but I do a happy dance because I don't have to evict!
Developer · Closter, NJ · Member since 2016 · 392 posts · 109 votes
9y
Joe Papp your best option in this specific scenario,is to file for nonpayment in your local court house. Once they see the paperwork from the court they will know things are changing and your not going to be pushed around any more. That will get their attention real quick. You also don't want tenants that will affect your cash flow every month, So your best bet is to get rid of them.
Have a wonderful morning