BEWARE of fraud by erentpayment.com
Karen HigginsPro Member
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 89 votesBEWARE of fraud by erentpayment.com
Most Popular Reply
Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
8yMy wife found this company on bigger pockets. She most definitely is in the right, and boarder line obligated to inform the public that a company that used to accept payments from tenants, and disburse the funds to landlords is no longer longer disbursing the funds to landlords. Furthermore, they have shutoff their phones and customer service department, not updated their customers as to the status of their funds, and refused to name their banking institutions or legal representation that they are using.
This is most certainly a fraud, and a large one. If not, they should be updating their customer base as to where their money is at, and when they will get it. This rent collection and payment scheme is the perfect Ponzi scheme. They take a clients money and can move it from bank to bank like it's their own money. (Matt, thats apparently what you think happened). Thus, proving the lack of oversight involved in this kind of business/industry. As long as they can grow their customer base the scheme continues. The creator doesn't even have to put himself out there as the frontman of the scheme, and can hide behind an LLC. Interestingly, Rick S is a "pro" member, claims to be the manager or owner, and has 397 post on bigger pockets. I encourage him to comment, or better yet send me my 13,000$. At this point I doubt either will happen.
I hope I'm wrong, but when the company shuts off the phone and fails to deliver on the "updates" they promise. You have to fear the worse. This company is still accepting "new" money and the public needs to know. I don't want to come across as confrontational, but the public needs to be made aware of the problem/fraud.
345 Replies
- Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 147 posts · 92 votes8y
@Aaron Van Curen I'm having the same issue. It says no active properties but I still can't delete the bank account.
- Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 0 votes8y
this is what they emailed to us today:
Here is the latest update regarding the deposits and information on reversing the funds:
We regret to inform you that our payment processor, eCheckit, has informed us that it expects to file for bankruptcy protection shortly. We are told that it suffered losses due to a fraud and that its processor, Check Commerce, has held over $4 million of its funds and will not release the funds to the intended recipients at this time. Please note that eRentPayment had nothing to do with the fraud eCheckit suffered. It was apparently caused by another client of eCheckit.
The transactions potentially affected were submitted after approximately 7:31:00 PM (Pacific time) on 10/03/2017 through approximately 7:01:33 PM (Pacific time) on 10/12/2017. Any transactions submitted after this time period should not be affected as they are being processed through eRentPayment’s new direct bank relationship. Similarly, any future transactions should not be affected as they will be run through the new direct processing relationship.
We do not know if or when Check Commerce will send the pending transactions to the recipients. Accordingly, you should consider your options including having the tenant contact his or her bank to request the transaction be reversed. Specifically, the tenant may initiate a return for an ”Incomplete Transaction.” We understand that the return code for this is “R10” and the bank will require a written statement from the tenant. Also, the tenant will have a limited time period to request the return from his bank, usually within 60 days from the date of the transaction.
Here is more information for the tenant:
1. The tenant needs to contact his/her bank
2. Ask to dispute the transaction
3. Ask the bank to return the payment as R10- Incomplete transaction
We are contacting the Attorney General of Arizona, NACHA, and reviewing legal action against the relevant parties.
When we have more information, we will let you know at https://support.erentpayment.com/news/root.aspxCharli
eRentPayment - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Aaron Van Curen:
@JD Martin sadly, the box is still grayed out and the system won't let me purge the bank account.
Hi Aaron, it won't let you do anything until you clear any properties that can send money to that account. So you have to make sure all of your properties are set to deposit money to nowhere first.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes8y
I feel awful for you all going through this. The only real (dark) humor I can think of in this situation is that someone at ERP looked at eCHECKIt's website and thought "yes, this is the company I want to tie my boat line to" ... content copyright 2008 and a logo made in MS Paint? Of course, by later today I imagine their website will be gone......
- Peoria, IL · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 7 votes8y
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Aaron Van Curen:
I think there's a lingering question that needs to be answered. I didn't read everything word for word and didn't see this mentioned but how do you delete your account? I have went through all of the options and can't find it nor can I delete my bank account (I only have one linked).
Go to "Profile" "Manager Accounts" , click your name. When it comes up it will show you the properties set up to accept money from that account. Go to each property and clear the account set up. After you do that, come back to this same screen and you can "purge" the accounts so that only your routing number remains, but your checking/savings account number is gone.
I tried that - mine says the bank account hasn't been verified and I need to do that, as if I had never received payment from them.
- Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes8y
@Account ClosedWebsites come and go....but screenshots last forever.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Rachel N.:
@Aaron Van Curen I'm having the same issue. It says no active properties but I still can't delete the bank account.
Your page should look like this - there shouldn't be any properties in the boxes below. If there are, it will not let you purge your account:
Skyline Properties - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Rachel N.:
@Aaron Van Curen I'm having the same issue. It says no active properties but I still can't delete the bank account.
The properties don't have to be active for it to block it. If you have *any* properties linked to the account, it won't let you purge. You have to edit even the inactive properties.
Skyline Properties - Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 50 votes8y
Originally posted by @Bill F.:
Honest Answer: You are spending a lot of time worrying and thinking about someone else poor business decisions. What ERP did or did not know, when they knew it, and why they said/did the things they did at this juncture are of no consequence. The lawyers and judges in the case, and maybe a jury, will care, but that won't be you or I. Sometime down the line all your questions may be answered, but that time isn't now.
Focus on the constructive, like how will you collect rent in the future ( I recommend Rentalutions, they do screening, leases, and rent collection) or learning how ACH payments are processed so you can become a better business owner than those at ERP. After action your systems and process to see what you could change to insulate yourself from an issue like this or at least mitigate it.
Once again it is easy to hand out this "advice" when you aren't involved. Those questions make a huge difference in if this was a poor business decision or fraud. If you know a company isn't processing/bankrupt and having their funds held yet withhold that information so you can collect your fees from your customers...you don't think that is of consequence?
As far as insulating oneself, how would you advise when Rentalutions just stops depositing to your account one day and you have to actively hunt down an answer as to why only to be told that a another 3rd party company went bankrupt so Rentalutions isn't responsible for your money. They :shrug: don't know where it is. But for all our other customers operations will continue as normal in 2 days!
Do ya just chalk it up to a learning experience and say thank goodness for reserves?
This experience should make all LLs not just ERP LLs worry about these 3rd party companies such as Rentalutions. ERP was golden for 6+ years...no one saw this coming.
- Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 147 posts · 92 votes8y
@JD Martin, thanks for sending those details. I figured out what was going on - I had to add a second bank account with a real routing number and a fake account number so that I would have more than one account. It won't allow you to delete the master account. Then it allowed me to delete my first one, once the new, fake one became the "master" account.
- Investor · Montgomery, TX · Member since 2014 · 386 posts · 151 votes8y
Why are you guys removing your bank account information. If money becomes available I want them to be able to send it my way. I'm just deleting my renters so they can not pay. I'm not going to use them anymore but I don't want to delete any records that are there??? Am I missing something?
- Investor · Naperville, IL · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 0 votes8y
Doesn't look good for anyone who has payments that were processed and not deposited into their accounts.
Here is the latest update regarding the deposits and information on reversing the funds:
We regret to inform you that our payment processor, eCheckit, has informed us that it expects to file for bankruptcy protection shortly. We are told that it suffered losses due to a fraud and that its processor, Check Commerce, has held over $4 million of its funds and will not release the funds to the intended recipients at this time. Please note that eRentPayment had nothing to do with the fraud eCheckit suffered. It was apparently caused by another client of eCheckit.
The transactions potentially affected were submitted after approximately 7:31:00 PM (Pacific time) on 10/03/2017 through approximately 7:01:33 PM (Pacific time) on 10/12/2017. Any transactions submitted after this time period should not be affected as they are being processed through eRentPayment’s new direct bank relationship. Similarly, any future transactions should not be affected as they will be run through the new direct processing relationship.
We do not know if or when Check Commerce will send the pending transactions to the recipients. Accordingly, you should consider your options including having the tenant contact his or her bank to request the transaction be reversed. Specifically, the tenant may initiate a return for an ”Incomplete Transaction.” We understand that the return code for this is “R10” and the bank will require a written statement from the tenant. Also, the tenant will have a limited time period to request the return from his bank, usually within 60 days from the date of the transaction.
Here is more information for the tenant:
1. The tenant needs to contact his/her bank
2. Ask to dispute the transaction
3. Ask the bank to return the payment as R10- Incomplete transaction
We are contacting the Attorney General of Arizona, NACHA, and reviewing legal action against the relevant parties.
When we have more information, we will let you know at https://support.erentpayment.com/news/root.aspxCharli
eRentPayment - Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 147 posts · 92 votes8y
@Mike Landry, I have only one tenant, and solely out of luck they paid at the end of September and it was deposited a few days later. So I'm just shutting everything down for the future. I feel terrible for everyone else on this thread whose transactions happened a few days later, though.
- Peoria, IL · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 7 votes8y
Rick is back replying my emails. I just got the transaction fee refunded. He also said that, if the tenant has issues he will work with them and their bank. I'm still lost, but maybe this is a positive?
- Rental Property Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 15 votes8y
They have an explanation posted on their website. Delayed October Payments
- Rental Property Investor · Clarkston, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
In the FWIW catagory, read on the Cozy co FB page a question: Does Cozy have the same problem/risk as Erent has/had? Of course the owner said no... Big surprise he'd say no.
Here's my view; This debacle has re-taught me that technology is fragile. IE no one shreeks when someone says my business computer crashed.. Everyone knows they crash thats why we back them up.
The W2 that landlording got me out of was IT / systems / networks. My view of financial risk is; the longer your $$ is in flight the higher the risk. Cozy's float of 5 days, often reported to be 7 days (which is totally crazy) makes Cozy even riskier than Erent which typically was 3ish days. Think about it: Rent $$ floating through Cozy is sitting in someones hands for a very very long time. I don't see that jumping to another processor that has over 3 days xfer time to make sense, especially in light of Erent's blow up.
Odd but fortunate timing, the service I use for online rental applications and tenant screening is beta testing a rent payment service backed by a huge rent processor prior only accessible to huge landlords, is saying best case same day xfer, typical 2 day, worst case 3 day. Price not set yet, maybe $5/per. Worth it to me for the speed and reduced risk of $$ in flight.
In the "good funds" space, where debit card processing is the fastest fees are 3%. IE $30 fee on $1000. Clearly that is not going to work for me, but that is the other low risk choice if one where keen at reducing risk of loosing funds in transit. IE Square, paypal etc etc. Paypal allows claw back of payment for a_long_time, also does NOT work for me.
Another decent solution is to setup a business bank account that is near all your rentals and have tenants go inside to the window and pay with your account number. The physical going to the bank during bankers hours makes this a problem...
Wells Fargo has a "deposit card" like a one way debit card that works 24x7 at their ATMs...
Good luck making your change processors choice. Sure they say they have a new bank. I don't care. Any org with such poor common sense re their communication says they are capable of no common sense decisions in other areas too, of which we yet may see they already have...
- Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Before you spread unsubstantiated rumors that could affect a company of dedicated professionals you should do a little research:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/500...
Cozy has taken a lot of time to explain their process both here and on their website:
https://medium.com/fireside-chatter/how-payments-w...
Your post besmirching their unblemished reputation is irresponsible an unprofessional.
- Founder/CEO · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 93 votes8y
Disclosure: I am the CEO and Founder at Cozy
Thanks Patrick. In addition to what you have already posted, I can also shed some light on the timing of payments, which we've also addressed in other posts on BP over the years.
We initiate an ACH debit from a tenant’s account, and then wait for their bank to confirm the funds are in fact available and the payment will be successful — this generally takes 3 business days. Then, we initiate a deposit of those funds to the landlord's bank. I'll restate that we never take custody of the funds, but rather wait for them to clear your tenant’s account before we initiate a deposit. This is a conservative, risk averse way to process ACH payments for both landlord and renter.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:
Before you spread unsubstantiated rumors that could affect a company of dedicated professionals you should do a little research:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/500...
Cozy has taken a lot of time to explain their process both here and on their website:
https://medium.com/fireside-chatter/how-payments-w...
Your post besmirching their unblemished reputation is irresponsible an unprofessional.
I didn't realize they use Stripe. I use Stripe personally and at work - they're huge, fast and professional. If they go down the drain the whole thing is probably a train wreck.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 16 votes8y
I finally managed to get ahold of both of my tenants that submitted their payments after the 12th. They both state that the payments have not left their accounts. I am going to pay for both of them to put a stop payment on the payments, and hope that it takes care of it.
If anyone else has tenants with payments that fall after the 12th, you might have your tenants check to see if the payment actually never left their account.
- Rental Property Investor · Clarkston, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Tnx Gino for the technical explanation. My risk assessment was purely based on float time in someone elses hands. Longer time is higher risk.
My point was not to pick a fight. My views are well,, my views.
Repeating: my and only my criteria for safer is faster xfer. No one can claim that $$ sitting out in no where's land, IE 6 days or more, is immune to problems. Shorter is better.
Sorry if my suggestion that shorter xfer times is safer does not please everyone. LOL!!
Gino and others, we are also seeing the "creekiness" of our aging protocols, SLA agreements, roll back / customer claw back policies. Over the years the consumer was given more and more power to reverse / pull back CC charges, ACH xfers etc etc. Its difficult to sit at the top of the protocol stack and also be fast...
The whole area of payment interchange systems are ripe for disruption. I've just paid $8k for my educational effort to always be on the lookout for lower risk, faster, safer business processes. Complacency,,, and being too busy to notice has a cost.
Oh Gino, that 2nd hop to the landlord's bank. Given the 3 days from the tenants bank, those are now "good funds", which should xfer same day or at most a day to the landlord. No one is going to reverse the funds going into the landlords bank, right? Ok ok you'll say the in-flexible bank interchange regs force 3 day clearing even if zero chance of reversing. But this doesn't explain how a big rent processor can accomplish same day xfer (ideal timing)?? They must play at the bottom of the interchange protocol stack.. Hmmmm!
- Investor · Charlestown, MA · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote8y
Originally posted by @Gino Zahnd:
Disclosure: I am the CEO and Founder at Cozy
Thanks Patrick. In addition to what you have already posted, I can also shed some light on the timing of payments, which we've also addressed in other posts on BP over the years.
We initiate an ACH debit from a tenant’s account, and then wait for their bank to confirm the funds are in fact available and the payment will be successful — this generally takes 3 business days. Then, we initiate a deposit of those funds to the landlord's bank. I'll restate that we never take custody of the funds, but rather wait for them to clear your tenant’s account before we initiate a deposit. This is a conservative, risk averse way to process ACH payments for both landlord and renter.
Gino makes a good point. I have used ERP over the past year or so and on a couple of occasions they have "reversed" deposits to my account because the tenant didn't actually have the funds that were deposited. My biggest concern using a 3rd party rent payment solution going forward is what kind of protection am I guaranteed? The only reason I used ERP was for convenience. Now my wife and I are missing $3150. Not very convenient.
- Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 9 votes8y
I spoke with my bank, Wells Fargo, today, there is no charge if the stop payment is for future ACH transactions. According to Wells, ACH can be stopped and restarted at no charge. There is a charge of $31 for stop payments to funds that have already left the account. Have your tenants check with their banks about stop payment on ACH transactions. If the payments have not left their accounts, they may be able to stop the ACH before it hits. It's worth checking because ERP uses ACH. I did this to my own business account for no charge.
- Real Estate Broker · Redwood City, CA · Member since 2014 · 679 posts · 888 votes8yLuckily I have not used any online rent collection. It is risky.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.