BEWARE of fraud by erentpayment.com
Karen HigginsPro Member
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 89 votesWe are currently in the middle of a scam by erentpayment.com. They have taken money deposited by our tenants and have refused to pay us. They have been very limiting with information and turned their phones off and are not replying to emails. Cancel all automated payments if you currently use their system. We are starting the legal process to take action. I'm guessing they have taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from people. Help spread the word so others are not hurt by this.
My wife found this company on bigger pockets. She most definitely is in the right, and boarder line obligated to inform the public that a company that used to accept payments from tenants, and disburse the funds to landlords is no longer longer disbursing the funds to landlords. Furthermore, they have shutoff their phones and customer service department, not updated their customers as to the status of their funds, and refused to name their banking institutions or legal representation that they are using.
This is most certainly a fraud, and a large one. If not, they should be updating their customer base as to where their money is at, and when they will get it. This rent collection and payment scheme is the perfect Ponzi scheme. They take a clients money and can move it from bank to bank like it's their own money. (Matt, thats apparently what you think happened). Thus, proving the lack of oversight involved in this kind of business/industry. As long as they can grow their customer base the scheme continues. The creator doesn't even have to put himself out there as the frontman of the scheme, and can hide behind an LLC. Interestingly, Rick S is a "pro" member, claims to be the manager or owner, and has 397 post on bigger pockets. I encourage him to comment, or better yet send me my 13,000$. At this point I doubt either will happen.
I hope I'm wrong, but when the company shuts off the phone and fails to deliver on the "updates" they promise. You have to fear the worse. This company is still accepting "new" money and the public needs to know. I don't want to come across as confrontational, but the public needs to be made aware of the problem/fraud.
@Cody Plemmons - Fortunately we only had one house impacted and that tenant started the claw back process with their credit union this morning...I will post if I hear any news either way...Wish us luck.
Andy
Thanks to everyone for the good info. I spoke with the attorney general's office in Colorado today, and they are eager to hear our complaints. The more that are filed the faster they can take action. She could not say much, but I got the impression she understood the situation and they want to help. Since I can't afford to pay a retainer to a private lawyer I guess this is my route. I also filed a complaint with the BBB.
http://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/
www.IC3.gov
hi everyone just wanted to give you an update on our situation.
all 8 of our tenant filed R10 claims at the bank. (if you want to know more about what this, how to do it, etc ... join the facebook group "erentpayment discussion group" and search the threads for R10 or my husbands name Rudo Catlin) ...
3 of our tenants successfully got their money back today and have resubmitted the rent payments to us using zelle. and surprisingly enough the payment was deposited into out account SAME DAY with zelle. (ZELLE FOR THE WIN!!!) the 3 tenants banked with citizen, pnc, pescu and our bank is capital one so this makes the same day deposit amazing. we will be using them moving forward as to avoid the risk of a middle man.
all 3 tenants were originally listed at processing (but not deposited) in erentpayment.
we only received erentpayment notification for one of these tenants returns. so you have to have trust worthy tenants who will tell you when they get their money back.
we can no longer appear to have access to our erentpayment account. when we try to log in we get the following error:
Error
Your previous operation did not complete and has been logged. Please return to the previous screen or contact us
hope this helps and gives everyone a little hope that the money is not lost for ever.
@Dima Kassim @Cody Plemmons @Fernanda B. PLEASE JOIN THE FACEBOOK GROUP. IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THE R10. MULTIPLE SUCCESS STORIES.
TELL YOUR TENANTS TO PRINT OUT THE NOTICE FROM ERENTPAYMENT AND TAKE TO BANK.
https://support.erentpayment.com/news/65/incomplet...
THEN ALSO TELL THEM THIS.
Just got a call back from Jannette Fox at NACHA (in the Risk Investment Dept.). NACHA is the regulatory body for ACH transactions. She also confirmed this is the correct scenario to use R10 and money will be returned. She provided her direct number for the *banks* to call her if they are not allowing R10. It is 703 BIGGER POCKETS WONT LET ME POST FULL NUMBER PLEASE SEE FACEBOOK GROUP FOR THE NUMBER.
THE ONE TENANT WHO HAD THE MOST DIFFICULTY WAS FINALLY ABLE TO GET CLAIM FILED AFTER DOING THIS.
the facebook group has all the screen shots documenting our tenants successful experience submitting R10, getting money back and then sending it to us via zelle and us receiving the money same day with zelle.
hope this helps.
This was posted on erentpayments news page Oct 13 explaining the delayed paymentsNews
Delayed October PaymentsWe regret to inform you that our payment processor, eCheckit, has informed us that it expects to file for bankruptcy protection shortly. We are told that it suffered losses due to a fraud and that its processor, Check Commerce, has held over $4 million of it's funds and will not release the funds to the intended recipients at this time. Please note that eRentPayment had nothing to due with the fraud eCheckit suffered. It was apparently caused by another client of eCheckit.
The transactions potentially affected were submitted after approximately 7:31:00 PM (Pacific time) on 10/03/2017 through approximately 7:01:33 PM (Pacific time) on 10/12/2017. Any transactions submitted after this time period should not be affected as they are being processed through eRentPayment’s new direct bank relationship. Similarly, any future transactions should not be affected as they will be run through the new direct processing relationship.
We do not know if or when Check Commerce will send the pending transactions to the recipients. Accordingly, you should consider your options including having the tenant contact his or her bank to request the transaction be reversed. Specifically, the tenant may initiate a return for an ”Incomplete Transaction.” We understand that the return code for this is “R10” and the bank will require a written statement from the tenant. Also, the tenant will have a limited time period to request the return from his bank, usually within 60 days from the date of the transaction.
We are contacting the Attorney General of Arizona, NACHA, and reviewing legal action against the relevant parties.
When we have more information, we will let you know.
Published: October 13 at 7:33 PM
Originally posted by @Cody Plemmons :
Also, has anyone had success with this R10 method? My bank had never heard of it and I’m not sure I like the idea of teaching the tenant how to take back rent paid is a good idea anyway.
I only had one rent payment that was not processed, from my habitual late freight. All others had paid on time and were processed. Their bank was very cooperative and told them that the rent plus late charges can be reversed because the final transaction of deposit into my account is pending. They can claw back the money. Also, there are going to be no stop payment charges since it will be an ACH reversal. They are going to the bank tomorrow to fill out the form. I had not told them about it. The bank told them. I will keep you posted as to how it goes. ACH usually takes 2-3 days so hopefully by Wednesday I will know if they get the money back.
Zelle is awesome. I have used it since it first came out either earlier this year or late last year. No information needed, only an email. It is bank2bank or peer2peer, no third party involved, and completely free. If a bank is not on their list; no worries, just download the app and enjoy fast, reliable transfers for free. I should have switched but ERP was working fine and I was too lazy to switch. There is also a memo section where the tenants can put the address or whatever id system one has for their tenants.
Followinh for further updates.
The R10 method seems to be working for most who still have a "Pending" status on their Erent Payment transaction. The Facebook group is really giving out good information and intelligently researching the situation with lawyer advice to determine who's responsible and making each move. I advise anyone who hasn't signed up already to sign up. Even if you are a concerned current member of Erent Payment that's curious to see how your money may or may not be handled, it never hurts to be informed.
Don't worry, it's no witch hunt... just good information that helps.
Add me to the growing list of affected users. My tenant was setup for automatic recurring payment due on the 15th. He contacted me because it showed up as pending in his checking account but had never been debited. I did some googling and found you guys here.
I found that I was not only able to log in and block payments on the property account, but I could also search for the pending payment and void the transaction. I'm thinking this will alleviate my tenant's need to do anything with his bank. Will let you know how it turns out.
Note that ERP is a 3-day transfer but charges $3. Cozy is a 5-7 day transfer but is free. However, if you pay $2.99, the transfer is 3 business days. So you're getting the same speed with Cozy at the same price, but Cozy also has a free option.
I initially chose ERP because my tenants wanted to improve their credit and ERP reported to TransUnion, one of the credit bureaus. (Now ERP reports to all three.) It was the most affordable way I could find for a small LL like myself to report rent payments to the bureaus.
Looks like Cozy.co reports to Experian, so that's equivalent to what ERP did when I started using them in early 2016. That makes Cozy.co pretty attractive to me, and I'm hoping they'll add the other two bureaus later on, like ERP did.
Have to concur wiht the Facebook group on advice. I have been using them for over a year without a glitch... till l discovered that one tenant (who was late and put in the ERP system their rent and late fee on the 12th. ERP portal showed rent and a separate late fee as pending as of today. I took him to his bank and they were extremely quick and helpful filling out the paperwork for my tenant. Interestingly they (ERP) only had debited my tenants account for rent and not the late fee, so that was all they could attempt to stop. The branch manager that we dealt with knew right away what the R10 code was... and soon as that was finished proceeded to inquire and sell me on their banks financing - especially once he learned that we are actively acquiring buildings!
We shall see if this one gets reversed, fortunately only ONE of our residents got caught in this mess.
FYI - someone on the Facebook discussion group posted a good temple that can be given to tenants that are trying to have their ACH payment reversed.
Document To Guide Tenant Through Filing Dispute with Bank.doc
Check it out. I thought it was helpful and was an easy way to explain this to tenants.
Have to concur wiht the Facebook group on advice. I have been using them for over a year without a glitch... till l discovered that one tenant (who was late and put in the ERP system their rent and late fee on the 12th. ERP portal showed rent and a separate late fee as pending as of today. I took him to his bank and they were extremely quick and helpful filling out the paperwork for my tenant. Interestingly they (ERP) only had debited my tenants account for rent and not the late fee, so that was all they could attempt to stop. The branch manager that we dealt with knew right away what the R10 code was... and soon as that was finished proceeded to inquire and sell me on their banks financing - especially once he learned that we are actively acquiring buildings!
We shall see if this one gets reversed, fortunately only ONE of our residents got caught in this mess.
Hopefully it works out for you, Matt. I honestly think it will since it was still pending. What bank do you use, if you don't mind my asking? I only ask because certain banks are refusing to reverse the transaction and aren't accepting the R10 explanation, like my own (Chase). Others had decent success with Chase, so I'm wondering if it's a branch thing?
@Dima Kassim , I use a couple of smaller local banks for our properties - Have also gotten some lights-out financing from them as well (i.e. commercial paper, 20% down 30 yr amortization & 15 year terms... at interest rates that are nearly non-commercial)... here in the Lehigh Valley Embassy and American Bank.
My tenant that was affected is with BB&T. I dont know much about them, but di agree to meet with the branch manager in the next couple weeks to discuss their offerings as they operate in 15 states, and we are looking to expand massively in larger multi-family outside of this area (for a number of reasons, like taxes, affordability, scalability, Im thinking of retiring in the next couple years - before Im 55!).
Im guessing the R10 is a branch thing. Like I mentioned, I went into the branch with my tenant, explained it for him and within 60 seconds the manager was keying in the dispute / reversal on his system. If you havent already, attending WITH your tenant might be worth a shot... after all, your showing a bit of empathy for their situation and helping your situation as well. I do hope that I can get the reversal accomplished, however its not the end of the world for me. One tenant & one moths rent isnt goign to sink the ship - its the folks that have 10's of thousands out that I really feel for.
If anything, the lesson I can take is to be FAR more careful in selecting financial partners. Im thinking that it might be wise to get setup directly with a bank in the future for ACH clearing. In the interim I only accepting checks or money orders.
@Dima Kassim , I use a couple of smaller local banks for our properties - Have also gotten some lights-out financing from them as well (i.e. commercial paper, 20% down 30 yr amortization & 15 year terms... at interest rates that are nearly non-commercial)... here in the Lehigh Valley Embassy and American Bank.
My tenant that was affected is with BB&T. I dont know much about them, but di agree to meet with the branch manager in the next couple weeks to discuss their offerings as they operate in 15 states, and we are looking to expand massively in larger multi-family outside of this area (for a number of reasons, like taxes, affordability, scalability, Im thinking of retiring in the next couple years - before Im 55!).
Im guessing the R10 is a branch thing. Like I mentioned, I went into the branch with my tenant, explained it for him and within 60 seconds the manager was keying in the dispute / reversal on his system. If you havent already, attending WITH your tenant might be worth a shot... after all, your showing a bit of empathy for their situation and helping your situation as well. I do hope that I can get the reversal accomplished, however its not the end of the world for me. One tenant & one moths rent isnt goign to sink the ship - its the folks that have 10's of thousands out that I really feel for.
If anything, the lesson I can take is to be FAR more careful in selecting financial partners. Im thinking that it might be wise to get setup directly with a bank in the future for ACH clearing. In the interim I only accepting checks or money orders.
I'll go with my tenant to a different branch on Monday. Hopefully that'll work.
And you're right about learning that lesson, as I've learned it too. I'm going to have my tenants deposit directly to my business account for a few months while I research only the online rent collection companies that don't deal with third-parties and, if they do, the third-party is reputable and has my money INSURED. I'll update on this thread and on the Facebook group page to see if I can get a different answer on Monday. Thanks Matt...
@Matthew Olszak, I was thinking the same thing, originally. Now I'm scrambling to come up with my own money to cover rental mortgages for November. I'm "out" $2950.
@Peter Tverdov I wouldn't consider "if or when... the pending transactions will be sent to the recipients" (from ERentpayment's Facebook Statement) quick. I don't think that ERentpayment did anything malicious. But they got in a situation over their head and didn't take the time to (or spend the money to have someone else) communicate openly and honestly as hundreds of customers were left holding the bag. I hope to get some or all of my money back. But I would be a fool to continue to do business with them. I will be very surprised if ERentpayment survives this.
Can anyone confirm if the payments submitted since e-rents change to their new third party pprocessor are processing?
I have been doing some research on other electronic means and no one offers the features that e-rents offers for a similar price. Cozy looks good but why don't they allow a tenant to pay one time payments vs reoccurring? I can not forcing a tenant into a reoccurring payment. Ilike to offer more flexibility or did I miss understand this? Also why don't they offer automated late charges?
Zelle has very low limits to the amount of funds that can be processed per week/month.
Any advice might help this discussion going forward.
@Bob, thanks. I originally used that as the basis for my research.
I think I see that there is a way for one time payments and maybe someone who uses Cozy can confirm?
My other concern is that it says it is free while in beta. My luck is I will start using and then the price will change and not be tolerable. I don't like to keep changing payment systems because it causes confusion for tenant.
Can anyone confirm if the payments submitted since e-rents change to their new third party pprocessor are processing?
I have been doing some research on other electronic means and no one offers the features that e-rents offers for a similar price. Cozy looks good but why don't they allow a tenant to pay one time payments vs reoccurring? I can not forcing a tenant into a reoccurring payment. Ilike to offer more flexibility or did I miss understand this? Also why don't they offer automated late charges?
Cozy does allow a tenant to make "one time" payments. I have tenants that do this. I will bill water bills and late fees through Cozy and tenants can pay them through there. I also have some tenants that make some payments online and some through money order, and I can handle both.
They don't offer automated late charges.
Also, has anyone had success with this R10 method? My bank had never heard of it and I’m not sure I like the idea of teaching the tenant how to take back rent paid is a good idea anyway.
My tenant tried it and the bank said it will not work for a transaction that had already been accepted. Fernanda B. also tried it on this thread (Page 6) but also had the same issue with accepted transactions:
From Fernanda B.:
My tenant went to the bank and requested the transaction to be returned, but the bank said they can't legally do it because the transaction was in fact authorized. Rick's reply "No, they may request an R10 but say it is due to an Incomplete Transaction and not due to it being Unauthorized. Most banks will assume an R10 is only for an Unauthorized return, however NACHA states that a Transaction Incomplete also applies to R10s. So they may tell the bank to dispute the debit as R10 - Incomplete Transaction and the bank should contact NACHA for additional details on Incomplete Transaction."
Updating:
One of my tenants went to the bank and got this done in 5 minutes. She'll have the funds back in her account today and only paid a $30 fee.
My other tenant was not so lucky. I printed the page on erentpayment showing the transaction was pending. I sent an email to the tenant with that copy and the email from Rick. She will try with the bank again, but why are some banks processing the transaction and others aren't? So frustrating!!
This is absolutely true! It is fraud. They did the same thing to me so I called my tenants and asked them to contact their banks and reverse the payment and the banks reversed it. I did end up getting my rent by doing the reversal.
Anyone know how Cozy makes money? I am awfully tempted to switch to them. Free rent collection that is a few days slower than ERP.
BTW - I am working on a spreadsheet of additional vendors to consider because I am considering switching some/all my business from ERP. I just do not want to risk it after thinking about it all weekend. The lack of communication from them is terrible and I am sorry for all that were hurt by this. Will try to provide the spreadsheet ITT to all of you once I am done.