Landlord Form Reviews

Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Hello everyone,

Thank you to those have purchased BiggerPocket's recently launched landlord forms! We are currently working with lawyers from every state to create state-specific forms for all 50 states + Washington D.C. You can keep track of our progress and access the landlord forms here:

http://get.biggerpockets.com/forms/index/

For those of you that purchased, we would be grateful if you could take a moment to leave a review on this thread. This will ensure that the landlord forms are of quality and to help others decide whether the forms are right for them.

Thank you!

BiggerPockets Team

[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350

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Justin K.

Depew, NY · Member since 2017 · 44 posts · 40 votes

I just purchased the NY forms yesterday evening so I cannot provide feedback on the forms themselves, but I will say there is room for improvement in their marketing.

I was on the fence for a while because the image on the forms page shows what appears to be a single page lease. Yesterday I saw a Facebook ad where it stated it is an 11 page document (not mentioned on the /forms/ny page) so I decided to give it a shot. When I went to buy I couldn't find the page anywhere...BP dashboard, store, menus, BP search, and Google all turned up nothing. I eventually had go back to my FB app multiple times until I received another ad with the link. So my suggestion would be to improve accessibility and details given on the page to promote the forms.

Also, the FB ad mentioned BP will be updating the documents once a year to keep up to date on the state laws. It does not mention whether or not those who purchased the forms would be given the new version or if they would need to be purchased again?

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Justin K.
Depew, NY · Member since 2017 · 44 posts · 40 votes
8y
I just purchased the NY forms yesterday evening so I cannot provide feedback on the forms themselves, but I will say there is room for improvement in their marketing.
I was on the fence for a while because the image on the forms page shows what appears to be a single page lease. Yesterday I saw a Facebook ad where it stated it is an 11 page document (not mentioned on the /forms/ny page) so I decided to give it a shot. When I went to buy I couldn't find the page anywhere...BP dashboard, store, menus, BP search, and Google all turned up nothing. I eventually had go back to my FB app multiple times until I received another ad with the link. So my suggestion would be to improve accessibility and details given on the page to promote the forms.
Also, the FB ad mentioned BP will be updating the documents once a year to keep up to date on the state laws. It does not mention whether or not those who purchased the forms would be given the new version or if they would need to be purchased again?
4 Reply
Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Justin K. - Thank you for going through all of that effort to purchase! And thank you doubly for the feedback!
We are still in the beginning stages of launching these forms. In the very near future, there will be a place to access these forms from the dashboard as well as along the navigational bar. You should have also received an email and a private message with a link to the forms.
We do not have a policy quite yet for what will happen when these are updated next year. We will be sure to let everyone know once this is in place.
Thanks again!
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
1 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y
@Craig Curelop I'll second the feedback from @Justin K. You can't sell the product if people can't find it. I just tried pointing someone to the forms but after 15 minutes of searching every possible page, I finally gave up. I even posted a question in the General forum asking someone to point me in the right direction.
It's logical to put this under the BP store. It should only take a few minutes to add a link in the store or the store menu.
While you're at it, we're still looking for those BP coffee cups and t-shirts! ;)
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
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2 Reply
Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Nathan Gesner - This is something our engineering team is working on right now! And you got it exactly right! It is most likely going to be either under the "store" menu or in the "tools" section.
Our engineers have been swamped with year end craziness. In the meantime, the landlord forms can be found here:
http://get.biggerpockets.com/forms/index/
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
3 Reply
Susan GoldthorpPro Member
Investor · Mims, FL · Member since 2013 · 13 posts · 2 votes
8y
I have just downloaded the forms for Florida as I have been thinking for a while my forms and lease need updating. The paragraph on cannabis has me thinking. Possession of Medical Marijuana has been approved in my county and I am wondering how a landlord could ban a tenant from doing something that has been medically approved based on what the lease says? If the tenant produces a medical form showing they have been approved to purchase it would it make sense to have an addendum for their specific purpose?
321-698-5198
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Bettina F.
Investor · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 606 posts · 699 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Susan Goldthorp:

I have just downloaded the forms for Florida as I have been thinking for a while my forms and lease need updating. The paragraph on cannabis has me thinking. Possession of Medical Marijuana has been approved in my county and I am wondering how a landlord could ban a tenant from doing something that has been medically approved based on what the lease says? If the tenant produces a medical form showing they have been approved to purchase it would it make sense to have an addendum for their specific purpose?
I have not read the form, but you still are able to ban smoking on your premises. Medical marijuana patients can use edibles.
0 Reply
Scott TitusPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Lake Ozark, MO · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 86 votes
8y
I would be interested in purchasing when Missouri forms show up. Thanks, Scott
0 Reply
Ryan Cole
Winter Garden, FL · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 9 votes
8y
I'm very interested in purchasing these, my only question is that since these are all in PDF format, what options do you have as far customization go (such as security deposit size, move out notice, etc.)? Would this all just need to be completed on the amendment form?
1 Reply
Justin K.
Depew, NY · Member since 2017 · 44 posts · 40 votes
8y
After reading through the NY lease I have some questions:
Section 13 (G) - Prohibits the use of marijuana including ingestibles. As far as I know edibles are the only legal medical marijuana in NY. I fail to understand why the landlord would be concerned with a tenant consuming legal edibles in the privacy of their own home. Is it legal for us to prohibit specific medications?

Section 13 (H) - Prohibits the use of ice melt, salt, and similar products. Being from WNY this does not make a lot of sense to me. I'm not aware of any damage caused by these products, and not using them would likely invite a fall. Wouldn't this section cause liability?

Section 20 - Holdover. The way this section reads to me it sounds like the aim is to have the tenant vacate at the end of the lease term and that transitioning to a month-to-month is the exception. Wouldn't we want to sound more inviting for the tenant to remain after the initial term?

Section 24 (O) - Smoking. While I fully agree with not permitting smoking I don't understand why vaping products were included in this section. Misuse of the batteries could cause damage, but the same could be said for most other modern portable electronics. Over long periods of time vapor itself can leave a thin Vegetable Glycerine (VG) residue that is easily removed with a warm wet cloth.
0 Reply
Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Scott Titus - Missouri is in the works. It will be coming out in the first part of 2018.
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
1 Reply
Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Ryan Cole - You can print these forms out and there are blanks. You just fill in the amount when going over the forms with your prospective tenants.
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
1 Reply
Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Justin K. - Thanks for asking these questions! We appreciate you going through and reading. Answers are below:
Section 13(G): The first line says "To the maximum extent permitted by Law" so if the tenant needs marijuana for medical reasons, it would be permitted. Secondly, marijuana is still illegal on a federal level so this covers the landlord in that regard. Thirdly, just because it is legal, does not mean the landlord has to allow it. It's similar to smoking cigarettes. Smoking is 100% legal, however landlord can make it so smoking is not allowed in the property.
Section 13(H): Ice Melt and Salt eat away or erodes whatever it is placed on and causes damages to the property. That is why many cities/towns no longer use only salt when clearing the roads of snow. They use a special mix or sand. Both of which would be okay in this scenario.
Section 20: This is a legal document, not an advertising document. Depending on the situation, the landlord may or may not want to retain the tenant. This just makes sure the tenant NEEDS to be out by 11:59pm on the move out date. Or else there will be an eviction or if the landlord wishes to accept rent, the lease will survive another month on a month-to-month basis.
Section 24 (O): We like to err on the side of caution here. While the "Smoke" from a vaporizer may not damage the property, there have been quite a few incidents where those things blow up in people's faces. While we do not wish that upon anyone, and we certainly do not want any of our users liable for that. We like to heir on the side of caution when it comes to these things. We think it's more beneficial for our users (the landlord) to have the tenants smoke outside rather than in the apartment.
Hope these answer your questions!
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
1 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Craig Curelop:

@Justin K. - Thanks for asking these questions! We appreciate you going through and reading. Answers are below:
Section 13(G): The first line says "To the maximum extent permitted by Law" so if the tenant needs marijuana for medical reasons, it would be permitted. Secondly, marijuana is still illegal on a federal level so this covers the landlord in that regard. Thirdly, just because it is legal, does not mean the landlord has to allow it. It's similar to smoking cigarettes. Smoking is 100% legal, however landlord can make it so smoking is not allowed in the property.
Section 13(H): Ice Melt and Salt eat away or erodes whatever it is placed on and causes damages to the property. That is why many cities/towns no longer use only salt when clearing the roads of snow. They use a special mix or sand. Both of which would be okay in this scenario.
Section 20: This is a legal document, not an advertising document. Depending on the situation, the landlord may or may not want to retain the tenant. This just makes sure the tenant NEEDS to be out by 11:59pm on the move out date. Or else there will be an eviction or if the landlord wishes to accept rent, the lease will survive another month on a month-to-month basis.
Section 24 (O): We like to heir on the side of caution here. While the "Smoke" from a vaporizer may not damage the property, there have been quite a few incidents where those things blow up in people's faces. While we do not wish that upon anyone, and we certainly do not want any of our users liable for that. We like to heir on the side of caution when it comes to these things. We think it's more beneficial for our users (the landlord) to have the tenants smoke outside rather than in the apartment.
Hope these answer your questions!
That ice melt clause could be a real problem. Many states or cities have no restrictions on using ice melt on sidewalks, but have penalties for not properly clearing sidewalks. In my climate, clearing ice is a safety concern that is much more worrisome than concrete damage over years. For my properties, I encourage the use of ice melt.
1 Reply
Scott TitusPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Lake Ozark, MO · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 86 votes
8y
Craig Curelop thank you I’m looking forward to it!
0 Reply
Justin K.
Depew, NY · Member since 2017 · 44 posts · 40 votes
8y
@Joe Splitrock same in WNY. There are alternatives like the pet safe 'salt' but it doesn't work well and the ice scrapers damage the concrete. We also still use salt on the roads, though I believe they add sand to it.
2 Reply
Thaddeus D.
Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2016 · 57 posts · 22 votes
8y
I was hesitant to buy the NY forms because of the distinction between NYC and western NY. I live in NYC but investments are in Rochester, NY area. There are huge differences in landlord/tenant laws in these markets. NYC has rent control/stabilization laws and is very pro-tenant rights. Rochester, not as much. I asked some initial questions with a BP rep about the differences prior to purchase but they haven’t been significantly answered yet. Another question is whether these documents are editable? Are they in PDF or word?
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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
8y
@Thaddeus D. and @Ryan Cole . The documents were originally only offered as a PDF specifically because they are not editable. We did not want our members to purchase these documents, and edit by adding clauses that may not be legal or enforceable.
I've had a few people ask for them in an editable format, and I am happy to comply, once I give my spiel about not changing the documents without consulting an attorney, etc.
If you are looking for an editable format, send me a note at [email protected]
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Susan Goldthorp:

I have just downloaded the forms for Florida as I have been thinking for a while my forms and lease need updating. The paragraph on cannabis has me thinking. Possession of Medical Marijuana has been approved in my county and I am wondering how a landlord could ban a tenant from doing something that has been medically approved based on what the lease says? If the tenant produces a medical form showing they have been approved to purchase it would it make sense to have an addendum for their specific purpose?
Fair housing may prohibit discrimination due to it being a medical use. You CAN prohibit smoking inside the premises IMO.
0 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y
I doubt you could be prosecuted for a Fair Housing violation when marijuana use (medical or otherwise) is still a criminal offense according to federal law.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
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Andrew SyriosPro Member
Moderator
Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
8y
That sounds like a great new feature, keep up the good work!
Podcast Guest on Show #121
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Austin Vandy
Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
8y
To everyone who has posted no this thread. I am a practicing attorney who has several out of state investment properties and I first attempted to pull forms from the internet and utilized the non-state specific forms on Bigger Pockets (which are very helpful). These form serve as a good template for the basic information but are not definitive.
I will tell you that you will need to have an attorney who specializes in real estate review any document you prepare to make sure that it comports with your state's applicable LandLord/Tenant Law. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, put a document together based on information obtained over the internet. If a dispute arises the court will specifically look at the lease agreement/contract and determine liability based solely on that document.
If you are in court and attempt to bring up any conversation or communication between yourself and the tenant which is not dealt with in your contract/lease the Court will most likely not be able to take that conversation into account when determining liability. THe worst part of any court proceeding is that it get EXTREAMLY expensive. So get the help on the front end to avoid the financial hassle of court.
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Mala S.
Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 129 posts · 122 votes
8y
When will you have New Jersey forms available?
0 Reply
Jacob Morgan
Investor · CO/MD/NY/VA · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 39 votes
8y
I just purchased the forms and finished reading through the full lease document in the New York package and found two passages that are explicitly described as "void" by the NY State Attorney General in the state's Tenants Rights Guide.
The first one is section 19, Indemnification; Insurance (A) - basically releasing the landlord from any liability for landlord-created problems. The second is in section 24, Miscellaneous (J) - waiving of right to jury trial for landlord and tenant.
I would prefer to remove these sections because they are explicitly legally void and unenforceable, and because they communicate a lack of good faith to tenants I am expecting to sign this already onerous document.
The Tenants Rights Guide may be referenced here: https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tenants_rights.pdf. The passage I'm referencing is on Page 4.
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Craig CurelopBusiness Member
OP
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Jacob Morgan - Thank you for pointing this out. We will look into this right away!
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #350
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Chanise P.
Norristown, PA · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 7 votes
8y
@Craig Curelop i purchased the PA forms and I did have a question that i was going to post but then ran into this thread!
Here goes: On the Rental app In the first section it says "anticipated move in date, at a monthly rent of , and then "utility" fee...if the tenant is responsible for some or all of the utilities what goes in this section? Or am i completely missing something and "utility fee" is for something else?
Thanks!
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