Securing Vacant Property
Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes
Securing Vacant Property
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Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
9y@Terri Pour-Rastegar I have a great security plan that works for me on my flips in bad areas! know I am coming in late here, but wanted to give you and others the info on what I do. First, I have flipped homes in bad areas, with higher crime. I flipped a home last year that was in an area where there had been 6 robberies on the same street in the last few months. There was even a flip that was broken into, and they caused lots of damage.
I have a very simple fix and it has worked 100% of the time for me. I pay someone $20 per day to stay in my home. I simply post on Facebook that I have a flip and I need someone who can be there every evening while the work is being done. I tell them it will not be glamorous, but it is a free place to stay and they get paid a little for their time as well. I usually get 3-5 people who call me and I see who I feel will be best.
A few months ago I did this on a flip and I was called by a former Marine who had just gotten out of the service and had a job, but could not afford his own place yet. He was living in his car temporarily. He was thrilled to sleep on the floor with a sleeping bag. I provided some additonal blankets etc...
I had another stuation with a flip, and I had a college kid stay there. He took classes during the day but stayed in my home each night. He was in a dorm with like 4 guys, so being able to crash in a vacant house and get a few minutes of privacy was great for him.
I could go on and on with examples, but I have never (knock on my fake wood table) had a property broken into or vandalized when someone was staying there in the evening. Even in bad areas I have had success. Be sure to inform your insurance company that someone is staying there. In some cases this will actually reduce the cost of your insurance. I know with the company I use, it is lower the moment someome begins to stay in the home. I pick good people who need help, but are hard-working.
However, I do believe that bright security lights that are motion sensitive and a loud motion detector alarm inside is a great idea if the house is left vacant. You can get good backup battery systems for these products, so even without electrical they will work and make a lot of noise and shine a lot of light.
37 Replies
- 16yMark UpdegraffBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 689 votes
is this a flip or rental?
I would personally either:
1. Get a big dog to stay at the house
2. Get a shot gun and stay at the house
3. Get one of those alarms from the internet. If someone comes in, it goes off, calls your cell & police and makes a ton of noise.Why did you buy this house if it is in such a bad location?
Good luck!
Updegraff Group Realty4.745 Reviews - Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes16y
See related discussion link here:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/48239-how-to-you-secure-a-property-while-rehabbing-That thread has some links to other threads that are related too.
- Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes16y
Thanks Steve--I don't know how I missed that thread in my search.
Mark, I do hope you're kidding about some of this stuff. How am I supposed to keep a dog at the property? It's 90+ degrees here daily--I'd have to build him some shade and go to the house several times a day to give him fresh water. And stay there with a shotgun? Seriously? And it's not an inherently bad neighborhood. It's a bad economy, and even the finest neighborhoods are having troubles like this.
I would, however, be interested in the alarms that can be bought on the internet. Do you know of any particular alarm systems like this?
- Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes16y
There was another post a while back with some links to those systems.
I've purchased an ADT system before and included the 2 year contract with the sale of the house. (It ran like $1,200 for 2 years upfront)
- Marietta, GA · Member since 2011 · 5 posts · 0 votes14y
I've had MANY break ins!!! :( I'll tell you what doesn't help as much as you think is an alarm system. Well it could work but MAKE SURE YOU LOCK YOUR ELECTRIC METER!!! Most of you may already know this but if your power source is not locked they will turn off the breaker then wait for your battery to die to your alarm and enter your home. Last night they just broke in again after replacing the electrical wire that I just replaced. THEY CUT THE STEEL SECURITY BARS TO THE DOOR!!! :( Desperate people have all the time and energy in the world to get money unethically.
They're like water. Sometimes it seems impossible to seal it up. I'm researching steel security doors and windows that can be leased. I think they're expensive, but worth it because nothing else I've done has kept them out. One thing that's weird is I've never had one break a window. They will work on prying a door for hours before they'll break a window. I've also had pretty good luck with boarding the place using the funky screws but ... I hate them.
I hope no one puts a dog through securing a crack home. - Marietta, GA · Member since 2011 · 5 posts · 0 votes14y
I've found VPS -Vacant Property Specialist and SOS Security On Site. No $ quotes yet. Waiting for a response.
- Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes14y
I just contacted REO sentinel over the weekend, they have a product that works off batteries and the cellular network so there are no wires to be cut. It sends you a picture of anyone entering the property. I am planning to get one to try it out and see how they work.
- Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes14y
^ That may be the Lasershield alarm system they are referring to. That's what I've been using. It's been okay. The drawbacks are that the alarm isn't super loud, and if the power goes out in the house for some reason, the alarm will be tripped. Other than that it's been fine.
Other things that you can do are install pin locks and those horizontal brackets on sliding doors (I don't know how effective these are but it's better than nothing). I've had one AC cage installed on the AC condensor but personally I think they are a ripoff, unless it's a really bad neighborhood--then it may be worth it.
- Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes14y
I leave a radio on inside the house loud enough it can be heard at the entrances and windows before entering. I know this works to some degree because I have had contractors tell me it gave them pause to enter the house when they heard the radio. Security specialists with the police department recommend it too. I put a cage on the a/c compressor that I have because its brand new. I also ended up fencing across the front yard with a chainlink fence. Surprisingly people like thouse more with a chainlink fence in front. Who woulda thought? If you know any neighbors that are parked on the curb, you might see if they want to use your driveway for a while (only if you know them and feel comfortable wtih them). THis way the house appears to be occupied wtih lights and radio on.
I do not advocate bars. They are really ugly and/or expensive. THey make your your house look like s**t and help the neighborhood look like s**t. You cannot proof a property, just discourage. You can get an alarm at HD that runs off electic or battery (so I have been told). Noise is really the biggest deterent. Noise and light.
I also put 3 inch deck screws and oversized deatbolt recievers just to make it a little tougher to kick the door in.
With the lights, radio, door security, fence and compressor cage, my stratey is to make it just stressful enough to get into my house that the neigbor's house looks more appealing. I drive by about every other evening to check on it when its vacant.
Since you have already been burglarized, I would put up a fake camera with a flashing red light in plain site but out of reach and no trespassing signs and the HD alarm. Here you are giving the impression that A) someone knows whats going on, B) they are not happy with it, and C) they have taken action, so these cameras just might be real. If that doesn't work, you might have to install real video and hope the perps can be identified.
- Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes14y
^ There is also a product called "fake TV" that simulates the flickering lights of a TV.
Another problems with burglar bars is that I've heard they can be a liability issue if you rent the house (if there's a fire).
If I see burglar bars on a lot of the houses in a neighborhood I generally scratch it off my buying list.
- Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes14y
What I ended up doing (relative to the house in my original post last year) was--and you won't believe this--leaving the doors unlocked. This actually came at the suggestion of the local police. Against my better judgment, I left the doors unlocked, and--to my amazement--no one broke in anymore.
In the meantime, I've learned to take measures to make my properties less interesting to the dirtbags who cause us so much trouble. I lock access to power (or, better yet, move the breaker panel inside), lock access to the crawlspace, beef up the door jambs, install deadbolts with a longer throw, lay a big stick in the track of sliders (or replace them with traditional doors), leave lights on inside with blinds open so cops can see if anyone is inside (they recommended this), keep water shut off at the street (in case they get in and cut up your plumbing), and install chain-link fence posts around AC units. One of the best things I do is request stepped-up police patrols. I call in the request and then try to personally meet the officers in the area, give them my contact info, let them know what I'm doing and that I would love any advice they can offer. They see I'm doing a nice job on my renovation work--that I'm not a slum lord--and they seem to take an extra interest in helping.
I refuse to install burglar bars--it automatically sends a signal that this neighborhood is dangerous. The bars themselves are dangerous in the event of a fire.
The #1 thing I do is: Do not buy in the hood.
- Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes14y
Originally posted by Terri Pour-Rastegar:
The #1 thing I do is: Do not buy in the hood.Sounds like that's exactly where you DO invest, haha!
But seriously, I've seen vacant homes vandalized and AC compressors stolen in just about all types of neighborhoods. Many criminals have cars...
- Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes14y
"Leave the doors unlocked."????? What in tarnation is the rationale for this? Anyone else heard this advice?
"Sh**, Joe, the doors unlocked?? What do we do now, what do we do now?" "Don't know, but this is weird and I'm getting the he** out of herrrrrreeeeee!"
Other things:
* Cell-based security system (simplisafe.com is good, and the alarm is loud, I think 86 decibels.). Can be removed and taken from project to project.
* Security system signs at all entrances, and stickers on windows (this one is critical).
* Motion-detecting lighting near access points.
* Fake cameras with blinky lights.
* Lights and radios on inside. Haven't done, but that sounds good. - Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes14y
Terry -- can you clarify on the use of "chain link fence posts" around your A/C and heat pump units. This is an issue I need to address, and have been looking at caging solutions.
I was hoping for a temporary solution that can be in place while the property is vacant, but could be removed when the tenant has moved in, but maybe that's not realistic.
What are best practices out there for protecting the AC units, assuming I can't move it to the roof. It's the one vulnerable things that's outside the house.
- Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes14y
Originally posted by David Beard:
Terry -- can you clarify on the use of "chain link fence posts" around your A/C and heat pump units. This is an issue I need to address, and have been looking at caging solutions.I was hoping for a temporary solution that can be in place while the property is vacant, but could be removed when the tenant has moved in, but maybe that's not realistic.
What are best practices out there for protecting the AC units, assuming I can't move it to the roof. It's the one vulnerable things that's outside the house.
I looked into that and I could not find any portable/temporary AC cages, except from one company that had a bad rating with the BBB.
The ones that are permanent and custom welded are anywhere from $300 to $600 for an SFH here in Florida. I found someone from craigslist do it for $300 on one of my houses (I was concerned because someone had sprayed grafitti on the side of the house). He installed the cage but didn't do a great job.
- Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes14y
@David--hahahah! I know, it's crazy. But we weren't dealing with thieves. Our problem was crackheads looking for a place to crash for the night. I'm not sure it's a tactic I will try again, because my nerves didn't hold up well the whole time. But I've heard this recommendation from several people, strangely enough.
I would not bother with any kind of temporary cage. AC units have been stolen from homes with people living there. Check out www.ACArmor .net and look at their first (cheapest) level of cages. Now, imagine doing a style like this yourself, but with big galvanized pipe. You bury the legs in concrete. It's permanent, and if you do it right, your repair person can still work on the unit. It's a pretty cheap but solid solution.
Of course, nothing is really theft-proof 100%, but it's a really good deterrant. I also try to make sure there is a motion-sensing flood light pointed right at that area, installed high enough that it can't be tampered with.
- Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes14y
I am testing out a new system to monitor vacant properties, it is a combination of a few things and not designed specifically for this purpose.
The first component is a vuezone camera system. I bought mine at Amazon.com, it is also available at vuezone.com. Currently $230 for a gateway and 2 indoor motion detection cameras. A weatherproof case for the cameras is available for $32/camera.
Second, a wireless hotspot. I am looking at the truconnect mifi or the datajack mifi. I believe they are both available for about $80.
Third, a wireless bridge. I got a trendnet 640mb for $25.
The vuezone cameras can be placed virtually anywhere, they come with mounts made for attaching on a wall, but you can set them somewhere else or purchase table, window, and ceiling mounts as well. There are no power or connection cables to the cameras, they are completely wireless.
The cameras wirelessly communicate with the vuezone gateway. The gateway is designed to be connected to an internet router by ethernet cable and is not able to wirelessly connect. The problem is that the wifi hotspots usually do not have an ethernet port. That is where the wireless bridge comes in, you plug the gateway into that and the bridge wirelessly connects to the wireless hotspot, which connects wirelessly to cellular networks and internet access.
The cameras can be set to record a clip when motion is detected and send emails out to several addresses to alert you.
I've only had my system up and running for a couple hours at my personal residence to test it out, and I don't have the hotspot yet, so I am running it through my wireless router from the wireless bridge, but everything is working well so far.
The initial investment is about $335. Then there will be monthly costs of about $15 for the vuezone service and the wireless hotspot service. Vuezone has plans to have a lifetime membership of some kind available in the future, but when and how much is not known yet. These costs seem similar to many other security systems, but what I like is that I will be able to check in on my property without going there, just to make sure the furnace and ac are still there and the doors are not kicked in or windows broken. I will not have to investigate false alarms which will be good for me because some of my properties are a couple hours away and I will be able to travel as well.
There are drawbacks to the vuezone system, check out the reviews on amazon, though some of the issues have been fixed if you look at the new information from the vuezone website. I will try to update here what I find out as I continue to uses this system.
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes14y
No great advice, just a funny story. Does anyone remember the flip this house episode with Richard davis trying to catch the copper thief.
he waited outside the house with a gun and drinking beer on camera and started chasing the guy when he showed up? LOL! How would that have looked to a jury if he killed the guy!!
No advice, just my favorite flip this house moment! :mrgreen:
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 3 posts · 1 vote14y
My partner and I recently acquired an occupied property at the foreclosure auction. We worked to reach a cash-for-keys agreement with the occupants (hold-over tenants) without success. There were three apartments in the building, and were eventually able to convince one of the units to take our deal and vacate. However, we found that the other tenants broke into the vacant unit and started to market it for lease so they could collect the rent!! Amazing how crafty (and spineless) some hold-over tenants can be. In any event, we did some research and determined that a Dewalk Mobile Lock system would do the trick. It proved to be very effective. www.dewaltmobilelock.com. It costs around $500, but can be taken from job site to job site and only requires a wi-fi hotspot. Our company maintains a 4G mobile hot spot so we can pair it with the Dewalt system. The system notifies our cell phones via text and email whenever the alarm is triggers (motion sensor). The second someone realizes the property has a security system, they will steer clear!
- Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes14y
Can you prove they tried to lease out the unit? I believe that's fraud and you can have them arrested. That might be an easy way to get them out of the house!
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 3 posts · 1 vote14y
Nathan, trust me when I tell you that we tried everything. The legal system in Illinois is set up to work against the honest landlord and work for those that dont pay, lie, cheat, and steal. Its truly amazing.
- Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes14y
Update on the Vuezone and TruConnect combination security system I mentioned before. The Vuezone cameras work alright if you just want to be able to watch live, you can get a good idea of what is going on at your property, however the video quality is poor and when recording a clip from the motion sensing, there is not enough to identify someone in the picture. The motion sensing also has a lot of false alarms. I never got the TruConnect wireless hotspots to work, didn't spend much time on it once I found the flaws with the camera system. Luckily there were no break-ins at my most recent rehab, though the neighbor told me she called the police one night because she saw someone snooping around.
- Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC · Member since 2009 · 174 posts · 103 votes14y
Thanks for the update Kyle. :)
- Real Estate Investor · Fenton, MI · Member since 2008 · 946 posts · 153 votes14y
I can't help you with the doors, but usually the only thing they can steal inside is the copper pipes. Replace these with PEX and you can put a sign on the door stating this house is copper free.
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