I Need Help Peacefully Evicting My Brother

I Need Help Peacefully Evicting My Brother

Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes

Please forgive the lengthiness of this post.

My situation isn’t unique, but there are one or two factors that make this situation, in my eyes, impossible.

My father passed three years ago. My husband and I decided to move into the house with my mother and two brothers (31 and 21 years old at the time), because my mother had impossible financial responsibilities and would ultimately lose her house.

My husband had always gotten along with all of my family members. After my father’s death, my mother wanted my 31-year old brother to contribute financially (he paid no rent, nothing toward utilities, nada). My husband and I assumed all responsibilities—mortgage, utilities, food, etc. Before this point, we had come together and decided to do so, the plan being to eventually buy the house, since we were already putting thousands of dollars into staying/living there already. My older brother refused to contribute anything. He eventually moved out a year later. He is not the issue right now.. just providing context.

My husband and I have always had a decent relationship with my 21-year old brother—despite the fact that he wasn’t working, smoked weed on the property (which we have since bought), was at times belligerent, etc. This all changed December 2016 when my husband had a convo with him about saving up money to eventually move out. I was 5-mos pregnant with our first child, and not only did we think that it would be beneficial for my brother to move out (he has never been to college, out on his own, kept a steady job, etc.), but we didn’t want our child exposed to his lifestyle. After said conversation (which was related in a calm, kind, and loving way), my 21-year old brother stopped speaking with us. The relationship has never been the same (over a year later).

In the past three years he worked for only ONE SUMMER—I reiterate that he never payed anything, smoked weed on the property, etc. My mom agreed to let him use her car so that he could make money Uber-ing. My husband and I Iet him use our EZPass. He never even gave us back the money that Uber reimbursed him for tolls (hundreds of dollars). He finally got a good job this past September, but unfortunately had no way to get there. My husband and I decided to buy him a used car to help him get back and forth, and my mother put him on her insurance.

We have spoken to him multiple times about SAVING MONEY to “eventually move out.” He has next to no bills—no car note, no rent, no electric, no water. He really doesn’t understand that we are supporting him—taking care of him. In the past months he has worsened in temperament and action. He has clear anger management problems. It has come to the point where I can’t even talk to him, because he curses us out, is disrespectful, brings weed around my 9-month old son, etc.

He has not shown us any good faith toward eventually moving out. He takes off from work... a lot, won’t work overtime because it’s “too cold.” We haven’t asked for rent, contribution of any kind.

The problem is.. he grew up in this house. He doesn't see that we could have easily helped my mother handle her affairs after my dad passed away and had her move in with us. We considered the whole family in making this decision. He sees this house as HIS house. He is extremely entitled and thinks he is owed everything. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s almost as if he doesn’t realize that WE own the house now, we’ve been extremely lenient and kind for THREE years.

I don’t know what to do or where to turn. My mother has no idea how to handle this situation. My son is getting bigger and starting to understand more. I don’t want him repeating ‘f-bombs’ that he hears loudly shouted around the house, I don’t want him to be able to smell weed passing him everyday, and honestly.... my husband and I spent our newlywed year, I spent my whole pregnancy... in this extremely stressful situation. My husband is very patient (he actually has helped me with patience concerning my family), but we’ve reached the end of our rope.

Of course selling the house and moving is an option (a good one that we had considered for the past three years, having had so many issues with my siblings). However, it’s not the best financial option for us (especially having invested so much money in the house already—literally hundreds of thousands of dollars). Also, we already sold our home three years ago and sacrificed so much just so my mother and brothers wouldn’t be on the street. Moving here, inheriting debt, and eventually buying this house has never been beneficial to us in any way.

I don’t want this to escalate to anything physical or violent. I want peace and sanity. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Investor · Independence, MO · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 70 votes
8y
You are what’s called an enabler. He has more than enough time to get his crap together and still refuses to do so. Give him a 30 day notice to vacate and follow through with it. He will then be forced to get his crap together or not it’s all on him. The same thing happened with my aunt and ultimately led to a divorce for her so please don’t let him ruin your lives as well.
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  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    I probably over explained and missed some things. My husband and I hired a lawyer and already bought the house. This is why after three years we are now seeking legal action/advice. 


    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
    Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:

     The OP stated that the mom sold the house to her daughter.  If she didn't have the ability to do this, then the daughter wouldn't have been able to purchase from her.  Deeds aren't just signed over on paper napkins you know.  Again, stick to the point.  You're straying off into the woods.

    Again, your condescention is incredible. Do you have any idea how often people think they own a house, because it was their father's or the spouses and if they haven't done any legal procedures, as OP admitted they hadn't, all kinds of thing can come up. This may not come up if you only work in the suburbs, with newer houses. But houses that people have owned for many years, they often don't know everything. And spouses often assume that a house automatically rolls over to them and they think they can sell, when that's not necessarily the case. 

    OP states that they've put several hundred thousand dollars into the house, which makes it seem that they bought the house with cash. Which again could mean that they never did any formal title search and don't know exactly how title looks.  And it could easily be that the house was in the father's name, but didn't have the mother on title. 

    You can't just make assumptions, just because you want certain things be a certain way. I constantly deal with title problems and I enjoy the puzzle of figuring it out. I have bought many properties, where other investors had given up on after years, because they just couldn't figure it out. So, stop pretending that you know details about this situation, that the OP never explicitly explained. 

    Hopefully, there's no problem with the title, but she should definitely sit down with an attorney to find out for sure. 

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Thank you! Your 2¢ is definitely appreciated! We hired a lawyer, currently own the house, and now what I was confused about was: since he has lived on the property for so long, now that the house is under new ownership, does he have rights that have ‘carried over,’ so to speak? Or can I just proceed with a Notice to Vacate and then go on with my life? Thanks Ana!

    Originally posted by @Ana Marie B.:

    First off...what a mess.  Obviously this is a very complex issue.  From a cultural standpoint, having a 24-ish year old child still living at home with the parents isn't unheard of (I'm Asian).  It's common in my culture for one's child to live at home until he or she is married and has enough money saved to move out (even if that means late 20's, 30s).  Plus, it's expensive in CA where I live.

    Now, for the house situation. As others questioned, is the house in fact legally under your ownership? (I apologize if you've already answered this, but I didn't read through the entire thread.) Your younger brother (and perhaps even your other brother in his 30's), may feel that they are entitled to a portion of your parent's estate...even if you did make the decision to move-in after your father died and pay the mortgage and other needs for some time.  

    Your brother (at least the younger one) may be acting out because he feels you are taking the house from under him.  If you haven't taken steps to legally to transfer the house under your name, then your brother may have a valid claim. 

    Perhaps buying him out would be an option in that case? Anyway, just my $0.02, as I'm trying to see this from a differ. angle. 

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @Amanda B.

    That was a joke... at the people declaring a title problem where there is no evidence of one.

    If you want to send me a copy of the relevant deed -- the one in which your parents obtained title to the property -- I can help put this line of inquiry to rest (if you like). If you don't have that you could also just PM me the property address.

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  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

    @Cara Lonsdale while I agree getting slacker brother out of the house is the question being asked, the @Amanda B. made this post early in the thread:

    No to all three questions.

    Originally posted by @Michael Biggs :

    @Amanda Bernard Did you get title insurance? Did your dad have any children with a woman besides your mother? Are either one of his parents alive?

    If there's no title insurance then I'm guessing this transfer was just done at the county recorder.  Even if mom gave Amanda a warranty deed, mom may not have had the ability to do that.  For all we know it was done with a quit claim.  Had this transfer been done at a title company with a title search and title insurance there would be no question about ownership.  But for all we know brother has a will that state the property (or even a tiny percentage) was given to him when dad died.  Or there's a half sibling nobody knows about that might pop out of the woodwork, something title insurance would cover.  Or the property was just in dad's name and probate would be needed to transfer title to mom and was never done.  Or maybe everything is just fine.  Had Amanda said, "yes, there is title insurance" I don't think any of us would have voiced a concern.

     Jon, that doesn't look like it came from Amanda.  What you quoted, looks like a question being ASKED of Amanda by Michael Biggs, and then Michael Biggs answer his own question that he posed to her.  Am I reading that differently than you?  If so, I apologize.  However, that is how I read what you just sent me.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Thank you for clearing this up, Jon. What I meant by ‘no,’ is that in my state, the cost of title insurance gets picked up by seller, so the way my lawyer worded it in our contract made it more of a tranfer (from seller to buyer) than an acquisition. I hope my lay terms don’t sound as rugged to you as they do when I type them. Ha. 

    Title insurance, title, ownership. Everything is officially in our name. I mis-explained and caused confusion. I apologize.

    Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

    @Cara Lonsdale while I agree getting slacker brother out of the house is the question being asked, the @Amanda B. made this post early in the thread:

    No to all three questions.

    Originally posted by @Michael Biggs :

    @Amanda Bernard Did you get title insurance? Did your dad have any children with a woman besides your mother? Are either one of his parents alive?

    If there's no title insurance then I'm guessing this transfer was just done at the county recorder.  Even if mom gave Amanda a warranty deed, mom may not have had the ability to do that.  For all we know it was done with a quit claim.  Had this transfer been done at a title company with a title search and title insurance there would be no question about ownership.  But for all we know brother has a will that state the property (or even a tiny percentage) was given to him when dad died.  Or there's a half sibling nobody knows about that might pop out of the woodwork, something title insurance would cover.  Or the property was just in dad's name and probate would be needed to transfer title to mom and was never done.  Or maybe everything is just fine.  Had Amanda said, "yes, there is title insurance" I don't think any of us would have voiced a concern.

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

    @Cara Lonsdale while I agree getting slacker brother out of the house is the question being asked, the @Amanda B. made this post early in the thread:

    No to all three questions.

    Originally posted by @Michael Biggs :

    @Amanda Bernard Did you get title insurance? Did your dad have any children with a woman besides your mother? Are either one of his parents alive?

    If there's no title insurance then I'm guessing this transfer was just done at the county recorder.  Even if mom gave Amanda a warranty deed, mom may not have had the ability to do that.  For all we know it was done with a quit claim.  Had this transfer been done at a title company with a title search and title insurance there would be no question about ownership.  But for all we know brother has a will that state the property (or even a tiny percentage) was given to him when dad died.  Or there's a half sibling nobody knows about that might pop out of the woodwork, something title insurance would cover.  Or the property was just in dad's name and probate would be needed to transfer title to mom and was never done.  Or maybe everything is just fine.  Had Amanda said, "yes, there is title insurance" I don't think any of us would have voiced a concern.

    If this property was held as tenants by the entirety or joint tenants, a will is irrelevant.

    This is New Jersey, not Texas or some other community property state.

    Can't we just evict the deadbeat brother already?

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  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    Sorry, I didn’t pick up on that. Thank you! I’ll discuss with my husband and get back to you. Thanks again!



    Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

    @Amanda B.

    That was a joke... at the people declaring a title problem where there is no evidence of one.

    If you want to send me a copy of the relevant deed -- the one in which your parents obtained title to the property -- I can help put this line of inquiry to rest (if you like). If you don't have that you could also just PM me the property address.

  • Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 156 votes
    8y

    @Amanda B. - To help answer your question, you need to decide and weigh potential outcomes.  Is your relationship with your brother worth salvaging?  If so, the cleanest way to handle this would be to do a quasi-buy out.  Since you now own this house, you and your husband can decide whether giving your brother some money for him to move out is the best option.  He may still resent you, but at least this option provides some hope that you all can once again become friendly in the future.

    If maintaining a relationship with your brother is not a priority, then yes, you can technically issue an eviction notice via your housing attorney.  Since your brother has lived in this property for some time, receives mail there (I assume), etc. he has tenant rights.  At least in San Francisco, this is the way things work.  So you must tread carefully. 

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    This is great advice. Thanks again, Ana.

    Originally posted by @Ana Marie B.:

    @Amanda B. - To help answer your question, you need to decide and weigh potential outcomes.  Is your relationship with your brother worth salvaging?  If so, the cleanest way to handle this would be to do a quasi-buy out.  Since you now own this house, you and your husband can decide whether giving your brother some money for him to move out is the best option.  He may still resent you, but at least this option provides some hope that you all can once again become friendly in the future.

    If maintaining a relationship with your brother is not a priority, then yes, you can technically issue an eviction notice via your housing attorney.  Since your brother has lived in this property for some time, receives mail there (I assume), etc. he has tenant rights.  At least in San Francisco, this is the way things work.  So you must tread carefully. 

  • Gainesville, FL · Member since 2013 · 127 posts · 21 votes
    8y

    This is a real estate issue, because it is about eviction. Eviction in most cases must be done according to the requirements of state law, even if the person evicted is a relative living in your house. You cannot just lock someone out, and if you try to get the police to help you lock someone out, the police will not do that. You should use a lawyer to make sure that you follow the law precisely, otherwise the eviction will be invalid.

    That is not to say that the answer is simple. Your bother might become more of a threat if you do successfully evict him. I agree with those who say that you should sell the house and move away.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Gotcha. Thank you!

    Originally posted by @Kay March:

    This is a real estate issue, because it is about eviction. Eviction in most cases must be done according to the requirements of state law, even if the person evicted is a relative living in your house. You cannot just lock someone out, and if you try to get the police to help you lock someone out, the police will not do that. You should use a lawyer to make sure that you follow the law precisely, otherwise the eviction will be invalid.

    That is not to say that the answer is simple. Your bother might become more of a threat if you do successfully evict him. I agree with those who say that you should sell the house and move away.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    This is not a "eviction" situation. The son was living in his mothers home. Mom sold the home to her daughter and the daughter now wants her brother to leave. There is no landlord tenant relationship established.

    Stop over thinking the issue, it is not a landlord problem, so no reason to give advice based on fear. She can kick her brother out of her home any time she chooses.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Thanks Tom. You’ve been super helpful today...

    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    This is not a "eviction" situation. The son was living in his mothers home. Mom sold the home to her daughter and the daughter now wants her brother to leave. There is no landlord tenant relationship established.

    Stop over thinking the issue, it is not a landlord problem, so no reason to give advice based on fear. She can kick her brother out of her home any time she chooses.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2016 · 226 posts · 140 votes
    8y

    You already know that you need to stop enabling him.  Enabling him is not love.  That's just being weak.  So, I would let him know that you love him, but his behavior has not improved and definitely is not acceptable.  So, he has to go.  I would wish him well, and offer to keep in touch if he calls, but he cannot move back in.  That is called love. Hopefully, he will hit his bottom and then turn around his life.  

    If you are the type that prays, that would be so good to do, for both him and for your family.  

    Hope this helps.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Best advice all day. Thank you. 

    Originally posted by @James Barnhart:

    You already know that you need to stop enabling him.  Enabling him is not love.  That's just being weak.  So, I would let him know that you love him, but his behavior has not improved and definitely is not acceptable.  So, he has to go.  I would wish him well, and offer to keep in touch if he calls, but he cannot move back in.  That is called love. Hopefully, he will hit his bottom and then turn around his life.  

    If you are the type that prays, that would be so good to do, for both him and for your family.  

    Hope this helps.

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    This is not a "eviction" situation. The son was living in his mothers home. Mom sold the home to her daughter and the daughter now wants her brother to leave. There is no landlord tenant relationship established.

    Stop over thinking the issue, it is not a landlord problem, so no reason to give advice based on fear. She can kick her brother out of her home any time she chooses.

    Semantics.

    If you need to involve the courts to remove someone from your property, that's an eviction to most people I know. It doesn't matter if it's called an ejectment, unlawful detainer, whatever. If you need to go to court, prove your case, and then perhaps have a sheriff come and physically remove someone and throw their damn belongings onto the street, it's an eviction.

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  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Since Amanda used a lawyer for the transaction with her mother I doubt there would be any title problem.

    The reason I was asking is because worst case would probably be to try and evict him without a legal right to do so.  That would cause more family problems and probably legal ones as well.

  • Gainesville, FL · Member since 2013 · 127 posts · 21 votes
    8y

     Yes, and if someone has been living in your home, even if they are a relative and there is no "landlord-tenant" relationship, then you have to involve the courts. You have to follow the laws regarding eviction if you want to have the legal right to keep that person out of your home. In most areas, the police will not come and help you kick someone out of your home or keep someone out of your home if that person has been residing there unless you have obtained a lawful eviction order.

  • Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    8y

    Your mother, you and your husband need to stop being "enablers."  He is a grown man, yet you get him a car, let him use your EZ-Pass, put a roof over his head, pay the utilities, let him take free showers in YOUR house and don't demand rent from him.....please don't tell me you also cook his meals and wash his clothes.  If you "own" the house, get a lawyer and proceed with evicting the Squatter Brother.  He's gotta go.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    This is a ridicules discussion.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    I didn’t explain this correctly.

     My husband and I just took ownership of the house last month. It was a very tumultuous situation, and we were trying to mitigate the issues on a sinking ship. It WAS enabling primarily by my father, and then by my mother when he passed. I say that to say this. I wrote this post looking for intelligent and professional advice. Not for your opinions, your condescension, your judgment, your quotation marks, or any other of your emphatic crutches.

    Unless you have more than that AND the common knowledge of ‘hire a lawyer to get rid of a squatter,’ don’t waste my time.

    Apparently people can’t read between the lines.

    1) WHAT RIGHTS DOES MY BROTHER HAVE AS SOMEONE WHO LIVED HERE HIS WHOLE LIFE UP UNTIL THE POINT THAT WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE (once again, last month).

    2) DO I HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LEGAL EVICTION GIVEN THE CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP? DOES THIS CANCEL OUT HIS “tenancy?” Tenacy meaning he gets his mail there. Obviously he doesn’t pay, so that’s not what I mean.

    3) What do you guys specifically feel about my family and how we approached the situation? Please grade below.... 

    ...wait, that last one wasn’t one of my questions. 

    Sorry, Judy. You were the last of a few people who chose to jump instead of read and help, so you got the brunt of it. I’m sure you understand.


    Originally posted by @Judy Parker:

    Your mother, you and your husband need to stop being "enablers."  He is a grown man, yet you get him a car, let him use your EZ-Pass, put a roof over his head, pay the utilities, let him take free showers in YOUR house and don't demand rent from him.....please don't tell me you also cook his meals and wash his clothes.  If you "own" the house, get a lawyer and proceed with evicting the Squatter Brother.  He's gotta go.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    And yet here you are.... still commenting.... two days later.

    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    This is a ridicules discussion.

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Maybe I can bring this thread back into the light...

    You want to "peacefully" evict your brother? Pay him.

    If he doesn't leave, removing him will require court action. Several of us already said this. It might not be an "eviction" but it will be a case followed by forced removal. You buying the home only changed the plaintiff in the case required to make that happen.

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  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    This is exactly the light I needed shed on the situation. I put waaay too much context in my original post. Thanks Tom.

    Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

    Maybe I can bring this thread back into the light...

    You want to "peacefully" evict your brother? Pay him.

    If he doesn't leave, removing him will require court action. Several of us already said this. It might not be an "eviction" but it will be a case followed by forced removal. You buying the home only changed the plaintiff in the case required to make that happen.

  • Lees Summit, MO · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y

    I haven’t read the replies to your post yet, Amanda. I pray your situation has been resolved by now. I’m commenting to express my compassion and understanding — and to tell you thank you for sharing. I am in a very similar situation to yours. My brother is 51, not 21, and fortunately not belligerent — but same general sense of entitlement. Mom purchased a house for him, requiring him to pay nominal rent (skin in the game — just enough to cover taxes, insurance, maintenance,etc.) He promptly moved friends in, requiring nothing of them — promising 4 consecutive months now that he’s working on getting the money (I believe he is — but it keeps getting funneled other places as he tries to get his business going. I understand the truth of that far too well myself.)  I nag and cajole and make idle threats. And then I nag and cajole and make more idle threats. I believe he means well (He’s had mental and physical health challenges , which is why Mom was inclined to do this in the first place —  but he is taking unfair advantage and has a history of doing so — including stealing $ and personal property from her). 

    When I read your post, it’s obvious what your obstacle is — and therefore, mine too — I want my brother to meet his obligations, and if he can’t, or won’t, I DON’T WANT HIM TO BE UNHAPPY WITH ME FOR EVICTING HIM.  So I make another concession, set another deadline, and back-pedal some more, hoping THIS time is the time. There is a lot of personal guilt/shame in this for myself — because I too have had health challenges the past year, and our mom supports me too — I too am trying, and presently failing, to get back on my own financial feet. The hair-splitting differences are these 1) I serve my 82 year old ailing mother in other ways — she is mentally competent but not able to handle administrative and executive functions. I pay all her bills (with her $); drive her everywhere she needs to go; do all her shopping; go visit her 3-4 times per week (She just moved to independent senior living this past fall); 2) I am a single mom of her only grandchild — there’s no way I’d be here if I were only responsible for myself; and 3) although I’ve cost her as much $ (maybe more, truth be told) as my brother, I haven’t stolen money and things. Yet, my guilt and shame for my own “draining her dry” are overwhelming and keep me feeling like a hypocrite that I must be the one to hold him accountable when I can’t meet my own obligations. (My mom wants him to meet his obligations or move so we can rent the house out and it will sustain itself — She is willing for me to evict him if necessary, but doesn’t want to do it herself and couldn’t really even if she wanted to.)

    Thank you — I can see past your inappropriate guilt for your brother’s situation (you love him and want him to be healthy but can’t make that happen for him.) I know matter-of-factly  what you need to do and I know that it doesn’t matter that your brother won’t like it (he won’t) and will push all your guilt buttons to keep you from doing it (he will). And I know that nevertheless, in spite of all this, do it you must. 

    And if you must, SO MUST I. I have just drawn the last and final line in the sand. And in the next 48 hours he will meet it, or he won’t. If he does, great  and if he doesn’t, I will retain a lawyer to evict him and his friends. I will report back here the results to be accountable to myself  

    Now I’m going to post this and then scroll down and read other comments and see how you’ve fared in this matter. And if you still haven’t been able to do it, don’t beat yourself up. But maybe “together” we can both step past our guilty feelings and do what we gotta do. 

    Sorry to anyone annoyed by the decidedly non-business nature of this post — but I’ve been a member of Bigger Pockets for months now and was thrilled when I Googled  “evicting my brother”’ and the first search result was right here on BP. It has been a true help to me. Thanks, Amanda. And thanks for all the help and patience of other BP’ers. 

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