I Need Help Peacefully Evicting My Brother

I Need Help Peacefully Evicting My Brother

Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes

Please forgive the lengthiness of this post.

My situation isn’t unique, but there are one or two factors that make this situation, in my eyes, impossible.

My father passed three years ago. My husband and I decided to move into the house with my mother and two brothers (31 and 21 years old at the time), because my mother had impossible financial responsibilities and would ultimately lose her house.

My husband had always gotten along with all of my family members. After my father’s death, my mother wanted my 31-year old brother to contribute financially (he paid no rent, nothing toward utilities, nada). My husband and I assumed all responsibilities—mortgage, utilities, food, etc. Before this point, we had come together and decided to do so, the plan being to eventually buy the house, since we were already putting thousands of dollars into staying/living there already. My older brother refused to contribute anything. He eventually moved out a year later. He is not the issue right now.. just providing context.

My husband and I have always had a decent relationship with my 21-year old brother—despite the fact that he wasn’t working, smoked weed on the property (which we have since bought), was at times belligerent, etc. This all changed December 2016 when my husband had a convo with him about saving up money to eventually move out. I was 5-mos pregnant with our first child, and not only did we think that it would be beneficial for my brother to move out (he has never been to college, out on his own, kept a steady job, etc.), but we didn’t want our child exposed to his lifestyle. After said conversation (which was related in a calm, kind, and loving way), my 21-year old brother stopped speaking with us. The relationship has never been the same (over a year later).

In the past three years he worked for only ONE SUMMER—I reiterate that he never payed anything, smoked weed on the property, etc. My mom agreed to let him use her car so that he could make money Uber-ing. My husband and I Iet him use our EZPass. He never even gave us back the money that Uber reimbursed him for tolls (hundreds of dollars). He finally got a good job this past September, but unfortunately had no way to get there. My husband and I decided to buy him a used car to help him get back and forth, and my mother put him on her insurance.

We have spoken to him multiple times about SAVING MONEY to “eventually move out.” He has next to no bills—no car note, no rent, no electric, no water. He really doesn’t understand that we are supporting him—taking care of him. In the past months he has worsened in temperament and action. He has clear anger management problems. It has come to the point where I can’t even talk to him, because he curses us out, is disrespectful, brings weed around my 9-month old son, etc.

He has not shown us any good faith toward eventually moving out. He takes off from work... a lot, won’t work overtime because it’s “too cold.” We haven’t asked for rent, contribution of any kind.

The problem is.. he grew up in this house. He doesn't see that we could have easily helped my mother handle her affairs after my dad passed away and had her move in with us. We considered the whole family in making this decision. He sees this house as HIS house. He is extremely entitled and thinks he is owed everything. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s almost as if he doesn’t realize that WE own the house now, we’ve been extremely lenient and kind for THREE years.

I don’t know what to do or where to turn. My mother has no idea how to handle this situation. My son is getting bigger and starting to understand more. I don’t want him repeating ‘f-bombs’ that he hears loudly shouted around the house, I don’t want him to be able to smell weed passing him everyday, and honestly.... my husband and I spent our newlywed year, I spent my whole pregnancy... in this extremely stressful situation. My husband is very patient (he actually has helped me with patience concerning my family), but we’ve reached the end of our rope.

Of course selling the house and moving is an option (a good one that we had considered for the past three years, having had so many issues with my siblings). However, it’s not the best financial option for us (especially having invested so much money in the house already—literally hundreds of thousands of dollars). Also, we already sold our home three years ago and sacrificed so much just so my mother and brothers wouldn’t be on the street. Moving here, inheriting debt, and eventually buying this house has never been beneficial to us in any way.

I don’t want this to escalate to anything physical or violent. I want peace and sanity. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Investor · Independence, MO · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 70 votes
8y
You are what’s called an enabler. He has more than enough time to get his crap together and still refuses to do so. Give him a 30 day notice to vacate and follow through with it. He will then be forced to get his crap together or not it’s all on him. The same thing happened with my aunt and ultimately led to a divorce for her so please don’t let him ruin your lives as well.
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  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
    8y
    Maybe come up with a solid plan like “hey guy, in three months you are moving into your own place, you make x amount of dollars so you need to save x amount each week so you have enough money for first/last/deposit. Won’t it be nice to bag chicks and smoke the devils lettuce in your own place?” Or something. I dont know. Your brother doesn’t sound tight.
  • Investor · Independence, MO · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 70 votes
    8y
    You are what’s called an enabler. He has more than enough time to get his crap together and still refuses to do so. Give him a 30 day notice to vacate and follow through with it. He will then be forced to get his crap together or not it’s all on him. The same thing happened with my aunt and ultimately led to a divorce for her so please don’t let him ruin your lives as well.
  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Who owns the house?  Was there a probate process?

  • Rental Property Investor · Manitowoc, WI · Member since 2016 · 178 posts · 186 votes
    8y
    I️ don’t see a peaceful resolution. If you decide to sell, I’m sure he will be combative and do whatever he can to the property to prevent the sale. If you decide to evict, well, that obviously won’t go over well. Basically, you need to make the tough decision knowing he may never talk to you again. Otherwise, you’ll feel like a prisoner in your own home for the foreseeable future.
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    8y

    I agree with @Michael Lewis; the family has created a monster and he will never leave peacefully. He needs to be cut off immediately, if not sooner.

    Personally, I would give him notice that he has one week to pack his stuff and get out or I would be hiring an attorney to evict him. Here's a list of attorneys to start with.

    Don't hesitate. Don't negotiate.

    If he is violent (or even threatens violence) call the police and press charges, then ask for a no-contact order. That alone should force him out of the home until you can legally evict.

    If he smokes weed, call the cops. Or if he runs to GameStop to pick up the latest Call of Duty, find his stash and have the cops waiting for him when he gets home.

    I would do everything I could to let him know his life will be a living hell if he remains in the home and that his time is short.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 136 posts · 29 votes
    8y

    Don't forget to change the locks once he leaves. Good luck, please let us know how it goes.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    8y

    This is not a real estate issue.  Its a family relationship issue.  Your  brothers were mooching off your parents.  The older one has flown the coop, but the younger one is still there, still mooching.  Kick him out.   If it comes to that, pack up his stuff, put it outside and change the locks.  Its not going to go smoothly.  I've been there.  Twice.  The person involved went downhill for a while.  We went several years with very little interaction.  But has her act together now, and recognizes the tough love, both from us and other people in her life, was in part what turned her life around.  You're going to have some pain to get through this, but might (or might not) have a better situation down the road.

    You could try getting him into counseling, or maybe rehab if the situation merits.  But that only works if the person is ready to change.

    No way would I call the cops to report his weed in your house.  They're as likely to arrest you as him.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    You're definitely right. I love my parents to death, but they definitely enabled him, and I am only inheriting the problem. Thank you for the input/advice. Much appreciated!

    Originally posted by @Michael Lewis:

    You are what’s called an enabler. He has more than enough time to get his crap together and still refuses to do so. Give him a 30 day notice to vacate and follow through with it. He will then be forced to get his crap together or not it’s all on him. The same thing happened with my aunt and ultimately led to a divorce for her so please don’t let him ruin your lives as well.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Yes, I understand. After looking for aid online (free legal advice sites, etc.) I came across a post someone posted on this site and saw a lot of helpful replies to that person's problem, so I thought I'd give it a try. I couldn't really find a clear category to post under. Thanks so much for the advice.

    Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

    This is not a real estate issue.  Its a family relationship issue.  Your  brothers were mooching off your parents.  The older one has flown the coop, but the younger one is still there, still mooching.  Kick him out.   If it comes to that, pack up his stuff, put it outside and change the locks.  Its not going to go smoothly.  I've been there.  Twice.  The person involved went downhill for a while.  We went several years with very little interaction.  But has her act together now, and recognizes the tough love, both from us and other people in her life, was in part what turned her life around.  You're going to have some pain to get through this, but might (or might not) have a better situation down the road.

    You could try getting him into counseling, or maybe rehab if the situation merits.  But that only works if the person is ready to change.

    No way would I call the cops to report his weed in your house.  They're as likely to arrest you as him.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    My husband and I do as recently as last month. No formal process. My dad had no will and the death was super unexpected. My mom sold us the house and she lives with us. We would've done it sooner, but there was just so such a big hole we had to climb out of first.

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Who owns the house?  Was there a probate process?

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    Thank you to everyone for responses so far. I appreciate the time and input.

  • St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
    8y
    Having seen similar issues, I’d say you’ll want to deal with this as soon as possible. Do everything in a considerate and honest manner, but make it clear that this is what’s happening and be FIRM, 30 days is 30 days and not an hour more. If you give an inch it will be taken, deemed insufficient, and then held against you. At the end of the day he is the one putting you in this position and forcing this to happen.
  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Amanda B.  Did you get title insurance?  Did your dad have any children with a woman besides your mother?  Are either one of his parents alive?

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    No to all three questions.

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Amanda B.  Did you get title insurance?  Did your dad have any children with a woman besides your mother?  Are either one of his parents alive?

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Amanda B.  I doubt you would have a problem legally but I am not a lawyer.  If you have to use a legal process, first make sure with a lawyer that there is not a problem with title to the property.

    In general, I would start with a nice but firm discussion.  

  • Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2015 · 257 posts · 230 votes
    8y

    This is treading on intervention territory. Your parents, as well as you and your husband (while trying to be accommodating) have let this problem become what it is. If someone has never had real responsibilities, why would they want to go and get some? I would have a family discussion with everyone present and just explain everything like you just did to us. It probably will not go nicely, but a few months of earning your own way and not talking to your family will hopefully make him appreciate what you guys did do for him, and eventually he will come back around and be respectful. Or not, and while that sucks, sometimes it's just how it works out. You've got your own family to worry about now.

  • Asheville, NC · Member since 2017 · 170 posts · 242 votes
    8y
    Don’t call cops when weed is in YOUR house. You’re inviting trouble. Especially with a baby there.
  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Ok, I'm continuing the point that @Account Closed has been alluding to. If the house was owned by your father and mother equally and you bought it without full title search, with cash, then your brothers could possibly own a share of the house and could create problems, if a lawyer get involved, as they might have the right to a share of the father's estate. 

    I don't know New Jersey probate law, so, you need to check with someone that's involved in that in your state. 

  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Knowing what you need to do, and having the strength to do it are two different things.

    Do you know the story of the baby bird hatching from the egg?  It is a hard process for the bird...a HUGE struggle to maneuver, to crack the egg, to push it away from the bird and pull itself out of the egg.  However it serves a great purpose because it strengthens and trains the bird for skills it will need later like flying (pretty important).  Do you know what happens if that bird is helped or taken out of the egg without going through that struggle?  It will never have the ability to fly.  So what have you REALLY helped by taking the bird out of the egg?  Nothing.  In fact, you have HINDERED him.

    I use this analogy as a way of assisting you in changing your mindset.  You feel bad for your brother's struggles and inability to do things for himself, so you keep trying to crack his egg!  You don't realize that by cracking his egg for him, you are eliminating his options for cracking his own egg.

    Taking action at this point will look and feel very similarly to an addiction intervention.

    You need to be level headed (calm), clear in your thoughts to present to your brother (write them down and read them to him if necessary), and resolute.

    List all of the things that are unacceptable and why.  For example, "Your inappropriate language is harmful to our baby.  You engage in frequent inappropriate language around our baby.  This is unacceptable.  We need this continued exposure to inappropriate language to stop."  "You smoke weed around our baby, exposing the baby to harmful smoke.  Our baby has developing lungs, and this smoke is harmful to her development.  This is unacceptable, and as her parents, it is our job to protect her.  Therefore, we will not allow smoking of any kind on the house."  "You are not contributing anything to our family, either financially, or otherwise.  This is unacceptable, and will no longer be tolerated.  It has come time for you to move out, and find your own way in the world.  This is not a punishment.  This is just the way it needs to be going forward." You get the idea.

    Allow your mother to add any of her own statements.

    Put together a timeline.  While sitting down with your brother AND your mother, communicate the timeline to your brother with everyone acknowledging the timeline.  Make sure your brother sees/hears/ that your mother is in complete alignment with this timeline.  Tell your brother that the locks will be changed on that 30th day to enforce this timeline, and that if he has not yet removed his belongings from the house, they will be placed in bags and set out front for the garbage man to collect.  

    Arrange for police presence on that 30th day so if your brother chooses to be violent or vendictive, you have police there.

    It will be tempting to take it back, or give him money for his new place, or help him with whatever sob story he comes to you with during that 30 days (and he will come to you with MANY sob stories of how YOU are holding HIM down because you won't give him the money he needs etc.  This is BS!  Don't listen!  Stay resolute.  Answer calmly and respectfully that you understand his struggle, and you are sorry to see/hear about it, but there is nothing you can do about it.  This is for him to resolve.

    Eventually, he will learn that this well has dried up, and move on.

    I wish you the best of luck!

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    You do not need help piecefully evicting what you need is help removing a leach from your life. Piecefull is long behind you.

    Obviously the problem is not your brother it is you and your husbands inability to manage your own lives. Some times family simply is not worth having, in this case definatly not worth having. Give him nothing but the boot and give him nothing in the future, cave and he will always be in control your life.

    The solution is very simple in light of the fact this is not a landlord tenant issue. Assuming your laws allow, which is the case everywhere I am aware of, you give 30 days notice for him to pack his belongings and move and at that point in time you issue a 'no trespass notice". If he is out you never allow him back, if he is not out you have him charged with tresspassing and arrested/removed. 

    You are wasting your time trying to reason with him as he has you exactly where he wants you and will not voluntarily relinquish what he has. Why would he when he knowes full well he is the one in control.  

    If you are not serious enough to serve a no trespass then you are not serious about resolving your problem.  

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    really unfortunate situation and I'm sorry you have to go through it. Honestly I'd be scared as hell of him. I would just say screw it and try to sell the house and move as far from him as you can. I'd be worried this guy would try to burn the place down with the baby inside.  

  • Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    I watch the Dr. Phil show and he has families with such problems on all the time. You'll have to write him to get on the show to get help Usually they send guys like this to therapy, get him a life coach etc. See link:

    Look in the panel that says "Tell us your story" and yours fit right in.

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Great info, Michaela. Thank you so much!

    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

    Ok, I'm continuing the point that @Account Closed has been alluding to. If the house was owned by your father and mother equally and you bought it without full title search, with cash, then your brothers could possibly own a share of the house and could create problems, if a lawyer get involved, as they might have the right to a share of the father's estate. 

    I don't know New Jersey probate law, so, you need to check with someone that's involved in that in your state. 

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Wow, Cara, thank you so much for taking the time to write so much advice. It’s really helpful. I really appreciate it. You’re absolutely right. To be honest, my parents did a lot of enabling, and my brother has anger management issues. It’s not like talking to a regular person. His logic is off and talks you in circles. We have tried many times to have family meetings and be very civil about the whole matter. Now, at the end of our rope, we’re trying to figure out everyone’s rights legally (mostly ours) and move forward as if we would a non-family member. Enough is enough.

    Thank you again!! You’ve given me a lot to chew on.


    Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:

    Knowing what you need to do, and having the strength to do it are two different things.

    Do you know the story of the baby bird hatching from the egg?  It is a hard process for the bird...a HUGE struggle to maneuver, to crack the egg, to push it away from the bird and pull itself out of the egg.  However it serves a great purpose because it strengthens and trains the bird for skills it will need later like flying (pretty important).  Do you know what happens if that bird is helped or taken out of the egg without going through that struggle?  It will never have the ability to fly.  So what have you REALLY helped by taking the bird out of the egg?  Nothing.  In fact, you have HINDERED him.

    I use this analogy as a way of assisting you in changing your mindset.  You feel bad for your brother's struggles and inability to do things for himself, so you keep trying to crack his egg!  You don't realize that by cracking his egg for him, you are eliminating his options for cracking his own egg.

    Taking action at this point will look and feel very similarly to an addiction intervention.

    You need to be level headed (calm), clear in your thoughts to present to your brother (write them down and read them to him if necessary), and resolute.

    List all of the things that are unacceptable and why.  For example, "Your inappropriate language is harmful to our baby.  You engage in frequent inappropriate language around our baby.  This is unacceptable.  We need this continued exposure to inappropriate language to stop."  "You smoke weed around our baby, exposing the baby to harmful smoke.  Our baby has developing lungs, and this smoke is harmful to her development.  This is unacceptable, and as her parents, it is our job to protect her.  Therefore, we will not allow smoking of any kind on the house."  "You are not contributing anything to our family, either financially, or otherwise.  This is unacceptable, and will no longer be tolerated.  It has come time for you to move out, and find your own way in the world.  This is not a punishment.  This is just the way it needs to be going forward." You get the idea.

    Allow your mother to add any of her own statements.

    Put together a timeline.  While sitting down with your brother AND your mother, communicate the timeline to your brother with everyone acknowledging the timeline.  Make sure your brother sees/hears/ that your mother is in complete alignment with this timeline.  Tell your brother that the locks will be changed on that 30th day to enforce this timeline, and that if he has not yet removed his belongings from the house, they will be placed in bags and set out front for the garbage man to collect.  

    Arrange for police presence on that 30th day so if your brother chooses to be violent or vendictive, you have police there.

    It will be tempting to take it back, or give him money for his new place, or help him with whatever sob story he comes to you with during that 30 days (and he will come to you with MANY sob stories of how YOU are holding HIM down because you won't give him the money he needs etc.  This is BS!  Don't listen!  Stay resolute.  Answer calmly and respectfully that you understand his struggle, and you are sorry to see/hear about it, but there is nothing you can do about it.  This is for him to resolve.

    Eventually, he will learn that this well has dried up, and move on.

    I wish you the best of luck!

  • Englewood, NJ · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Thank you for the advice. However, my husband and I are definitely not the problem being that we inherited this already huge problem. We didn’t actually own the house until last month, so we couldn’t legally do anything yet. When my father passed away, we made the decision to take care of my mom. Again, his death was very unexpected, so we kind of had to ‘wing it’ and do what we felt was right. Since then, we have been taken advantage of, but now that we actually own the home, we are seeking to remove him. Hence me taking to the forums to ask for advice. Thanks!

    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    You do not need help piecefully evicting what you need is help removing a leach from your life. Piecefull is long behind you.

    Obviously the problem is not your brother it is you and your husbands inability to manage your own lives. Some times family simply is not worth having, in this case definatly not worth having. Give him nothing but the boot and give him nothing in the future, cave and he will always be in control your life.

    The solution is very simple in light of the fact this is not a landlord tenant issue. Assuming your laws allow, which is the case everywhere I am aware of, you give 30 days notice for him to pack his belongings and move and at that point in time you issue a 'no trespass notice". If he is out you never allow him back, if he is not out you have him charged with tresspassing and arrested/removed. 

    You are wasting your time trying to reason with him as he has you exactly where he wants you and will not voluntarily relinquish what he has. Why would he when he knowes full well he is the one in control.  

    If you are not serious enough to serve a no trespass then you are not serious about resolving your problem.  

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