Tenants financial documents, references, are false. what can i do

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Tenants financial documents, references, are false. what can i do

Account Closed
Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes

Hello, my realtor found a tenant for me who appeared to have high income and great references. come to find out that all are falsified. she stated she worked for a government agency and that was false, reason I know is I found her on facebook and she is self employed - WITH BAD REVIEWS AND ONE OF THEM WANTS TO SERVE HER - YIKES, I can also see who she used as references, which are her FACEBOOK FRIENDS -NOT HER EMPLOYER. she was a little bit hostile when I asked her to provide renters insurance for her dogs and said she would not do it, although she apparently makes $400k a year - realllllyyyy??? she listed on her lease agreement she had one small service dog, which was OK with me until I went to the house and realized she had two dogs, untrained, so I am sure none are service animals. I feel really uneasy about this and spoke with a PM that I just hired. he says there is not much I can do since I have a legally binding contract. he believes I should just ride it out, meaning collect rent and see what happens, if she doesn't pay we can evict. the lease agreement is for 2 years and I'm very concerned. I know I need to calm down but I am angry at my realtor because she didn't get CDL or SSN card or credit report, (the tenant provided the credit report), and I am angry at myself. should I just ride it out? Also she pays with money orders (from Ralphs grocery store) which is suspect to me. why would someone making 400k use money orders for rent. this is a SFR in a very nice neighborhood in S.California., I would like to move into the property myself and get her out. I don't want to bribe her with thousands of bucks if I can help it. My gut screamed no to this lady, but my realtor thought she was great based on her docs and references. please don't tell me I am a fool because I am sooooo already aware of that. I can't begin to tell you how stupid I feel especially when my gut was screaming no! thank you everyone for reading, any answers would be greatly appreciated.

just wanted to add this for landlords as something to watch for.

the reason that I had doubts about this tenant is because the income level and lifestyle didn't jive.  i know the guys reading this will scratch their heads, but there is truth in this.  here are reasons I was suspect of this tenant:

teenage kids all had bad, uncut, unshaven hair, and clothes looked like Walmart status - remember, this is S. Ca. - doesn't jive

she arrived to see the property in an Uber, a small compact car with her 3 big kids

she owns a 2012 Toyota, that's it

her furniture didn't look very nice, cheap, and hardly any, she has boxes of junk though.

she let me know she was going to do the landscape (pick weeds), - how many people making that much money are out there picking weeds, btw, weeds still there. I'm not talking gardening here, weed pulling. this is a high income community and it's hot.  Everyone in the area uses gardeners.  People making that kind of money are very very busy and let someone else handle the "small stuff".

there's more but I can't think of it right now.

again any ideas on how to get her out are appreciated.

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Anthony GaydenPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y

@Account Closed

My opinion may be different than others on here, but I don't think you have a problem yet. It is troubling that she used fraudulent references and such, however she is already in your house, so you will have to go through the same process to remove her regardless.

Is she still paying the rent? If so I would continue to run business as normal. It doesn't matter if she pays with money orders as long as the money is there. She has two dogs, and you knew there would be wear and tear, and you can deduct that from their security deposit. 

Until then collect every single penny that you can from her. If she is able to pay for the entire two years, you win. 

Now finally, I really don't like the judgemental stuff in your post with concern to the way your tenant dresses, the car she drives and the haircut her kids have. That is 100% irrelevant. I'm a very frugal person myself even with an income that is considered upper middle class. 

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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    From the sound of things, you have a professional tenant. Faked documents and all, and knows how to play the came called a con or scam.

    So, as posted by another earlier post, review your lease to see if it contains anything to the effect that falsified information on the application is grounds for termination of the lease. If you don't have something like that, be sure to include that in the future. And if you don't have something about falsified application information, then look through the lease with a fine toothed comb to identify lease violations so that you can find grounds to evict.

    The longer you have this tenant, the more likely your property is going to be degraded from others in that neighborhood.

    Lastly, I have posted this previy, but worth mentioning again. Rather than repeat myself, I'll post a link that will get you to the more verbose posts I wrote on this:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/215105-use-realtor-to-find-tenants?page=1#p1436569

    Thank you for your input!   I got so nervous i just hired a PM yesterday and he will be handling  everything for me.  I think he's going to take care of business so I must say I am really relieved.   Also, the minute she doesn't pay I am hoping to evict, although that hasn't happened yet.   Due to your comment I will do a bimonthly drive by.  Thank you once again.

    0Reply
  • Aaron Smith
    Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2016 · 175 posts · 73 votes
    8y
    I think the PM is right, as long as she's paying rent and not violating other parts of the lease, just let her stay. Caulk it up to lesson learned, and it won't even be an expensive lesson if she keeps paying. Obviously never use that realtor again.
    0Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    8y
    I would consult with a lawyer and have him or her review the lease. See if the lease will allow you to evict based on providing false statements or the two dogs. If so then start the process of eviction. If not then as soon as she does not pay on time start the process. This is going to end badly and the sooner you end it the less damage you will have to your property. Also as I imagine you now realize your realtor only cares about making the deal and not the well being of your property. Never use this realtor again and I would inform others in your area about him or her. You can also ask for documentation from a doctor regarding the “service animal.” I am not sure why this was not already done except perhaps your realtor just wanting commission or being lazy.
    0Reply
  • Kevin DicksonPro Member
    Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 24 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:

    @Account Closed

    My opinion may be different than others on here, but I don't think you have a problem yet. It is troubling that she used fraudulent references and such, however she is already in your house, so you will have to go through the same process to remove her regardless.

    Is she still paying the rent? If so I would continue to run business as normal. It doesn't matter if she pays with money orders as long as the money is there. She has two dogs, and you knew there would be wear and tear, and you can deduct that from their security deposit. 

    Until then collect every single penny that you can from her. If she is able to pay for the entire two years, you win. 

    Now finally, I really don't like the judgemental stuff in your post with concern to the way your tenant dresses, the car she drives and the haircut her kids have. That is 100% irrelevant. I'm a very frugal person myself even with an income that is considered upper middle class. 

     The observation is 100% relevant. My fiancée and I are both upper class and both drive 10+ year old cars but we aren't unkempt and don't uber to real estate showings. We also wouldn't be pulling weeds in 100+ degree weather.

    0Reply
  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Every lease should have a provision requiring and confirming that the tenant provided accurate information to the landlord in connection with getting the lease approved. False info = breach = eviction.

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  • Rod HanksBusiness Member
    Insurance Agent · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 743 posts · 462 votes
    8y
    Wow! I hate to hear you are going through this. Like others have stated review the lease carefully for grounds to evict like not having renters insurance and more dogs than listed on the lease. Your PM would be a great source of information on the process. The realtor did you a great disservice with this tenant. Use this as a learning experience and trust but verify what any commissioned sales person tells you. Good Luck!
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  • Joe Davalos
    Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 104 votes
    8y
    So were your intentions to hire a realtor to find you a tenant and then you were going to manage it yourself. If so You were going the cheap route. It will cost you so much more in the long run. The realtor was probably doing you a favor and had good intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Now you walk this long road and hired a Property manger to walk with you So many landlords call around asking for realty companies to find them a tenant and then want to save the monthly management fee and manage it themselves. A good property manager will weed out the flakes cons and grifters. They will collect an application fee and perform their due diligence They protect you and themselves. They are worth their weight in gold I saw this happen years ago. A broker managing his own house with no experience had a grifter apply. The dog and pony show she put on every time she came into the office was spectacular. Same deal all lies Her over the top income and lifestyle was total BS. Of course he didn’t find out until her deposit check and First month check bounced. This was pre internet days so immediate access to credit was not there Not the case I’m today’s world I guess the takeaway is always hire a good full time property manager upfront let them do what they get paid for and don’t cut corners Hiring a Realtor that is not a Property manager to find a tenant only and to save the monthly management fee Is Like going to the dentist and being told you need a route canal. Thanks Doc I will take it from here I know how to use a drill.
    0Reply
  • Eric M.
    Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    @Anthony Gayden I agree.
    0Reply
  • Al D.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 303 posts · 327 votes
    8y
    I can’t help you specifically with this tenant. To begin with, I don’t know what language was in your application about potential penalty of perjury, automatic denial, etc. for false information in the application. But that is water under the bridge. I also have not seen your lease. And, in any case, I am not a lawyer. But, all the legalities aside, if the tenant has been paying - especially on time - maybe you should wait for a shoe to fall. That has already been stated by some reasonable people above. The reason I chimed in: Should a shoe fall - and I hope that it won’t - having the original application with what you know were lies may help you in court, should this tenant begin to allege untrue things about you/your property. The application may serve as “indicia” to the tenant’s dishonesty from the beginning of this relationship. In any case - but especially in cases where you deny someone’s application - do not throw the application away. I keep mine for seven years - with notes on them, as to why I denied the tenancy. I got that advice from a real estate attorney who specializes in helping landlords, not from someone on BP, whose background I did not know.
    0Reply
  • Joe Rudi
    Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    I haven't seen this particular point mentioned so allow me my first post here on this site:

    Like with Facebook scammers, Money Orders can be and often are, fakes. It sometimes takes a couple of months for the fake to be discovered as it goes through the clearing stage, but eventually it IS. And guess who is then on the hook for the money that was in YOUR bank account. YOU - that's who.

    Funds 'clear', you spend the money and time passes....  and then you're onthe hook for those funds. Not fun, nor pretty.  I hope this isn't the case with you but...

    I am of the opinion that you should evict them ASAP, don't wait.

    If you want a reminder of what can go wrong with a professional tenant, rent the film PACIFIC HEIGHTS with Matthew Modine and Michael Keaton. It will spin your head around.

    0Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    What's done is done at this point. Just make sure to hire a realtor or PM company that specializes or at least has a focus in leasing. There are a lot of things your agent did that someone with experience and/or someone who cared about their reputation would not have done.

    Cross your fingers she keeps paying on time and if she doesn't make sure you or your PM is on top of things to evict them.

    0Reply
  • Jeshua Patrick
    Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 298 posts · 232 votes
    8y
    Joe Rudi makes a great point about fake money orders. If your tenant has faked everything else I wouldn’t put it past them. I would definitely seek legal counsel immediately. I also agree that you shouldn’t trash your lease agreement. One big reason that moving forward with eviction ASAP if your lease agreement allows it is that a court may see your failure to take action against your tenant for fraud as soon as legally possible to you as acceptance of the tenant despite the fraud and deny you the ability to use that as a basis for eviction later.
    0Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed  So sorry this happened to you.

    My only thought is to consult with an attorney who specializes in evictions in your jurisdiction. I understand the landlord-tenant laws in parts of California are extremely favorable to tenants. Since she has gone to great lengths to deceive the realtor and you, you need to watch her like a hawk and use whatever legal means you have to end the tenancy. Be keen to enforce the terms of the rental agreement. You have an obligation to do so, not only for your own interests but also for those of the neighbors and community. Good luck.

    0Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Al D.:

    I can’t help you specifically with this tenant. To begin with, I don’t know what language was in your application about potential penalty of perjury, automatic denial, etc. for false information in the application. But that is water under the bridge. I also have not seen your lease. And, in any case, I am not a lawyer.

    But, all the legalities aside, if the tenant has been paying - especially on time - maybe you should wait for a shoe to fall. That has already been stated by some reasonable people above.

    The reason I chimed in:

    Should a shoe fall - and I hope that it won’t - having the original application with what you know were lies may help you in court, should this tenant begin to allege untrue things about you/your property. The application may serve as “indicia” to the tenant’s dishonesty from the beginning of this relationship.

    In any case - but especially in cases where you deny someone’s application - do not throw the application away. I keep mine for seven years - with notes on them, as to why I denied the tenancy. I got that advice from a real estate attorney who specializes in helping landlords, not from someone on BP, whose background I did not know.

    I agree to keep all the original application documents, but never write on the application that the tenant filled out or other documents that the tenant submitted to you. Instead, make notes on a separate paper.  It's important to document everything that has transpired and everything going forward too. You need to build an iron clad case. Again, consult with a qualified attorney for your jurisdiction. If you can evict on the basis of falsified information, you may be able to get them out sooner that waiting for them to fail to abide by the terms of the lease agreement.

    1Reply
  • Matt K.
    Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    400k from the gov LOLOL, very few people (even fewer in socal) are going to make half that.........

    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leav...

    granted that's for federal, but i think you get the point...

    1Reply
  • Marcy Moyer
    Realtor · Mountain View, CA · Member since 2017 · 120 posts · 108 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed there is actually a pretty easy and free way to get the answer to your question as to what you can do. If your realtor used the CAR (California Association of Realtors)  form for the application and the lease. the application says the applicant represents that all information is true. It does not say what the remedy is if they are lying. Ask your realtor to call the CAR legal hotline and ask the CAR lawyer what your rights are. This is free to all CAR members. I am sure this is not the first time this has happened and there are legal cases that have determined what the remedy is for lying on a rental application.

    2Reply
  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matt K.:

    400k from the gov LOLOL, very few people (even fewer in socal) are going to make half that.........

    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leav...

    granted that's for federal, but i think you get the point...

    POTUS arrived in an Uber and paid with money orders.

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    0Reply
  • Matt K.
    Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
    Originally posted by @Matt K.:

    400k from the gov LOLOL, very few people (even fewer in socal) are going to make half that.........

    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leav...

    granted that's for federal, but i think you get the point...

    POTUS arrived in an Uber and paid with money orders.

     Did you work at uber?

    https://newsroom.uber.com/us-dc/e-hail-to-the-chief-your-ubercade-is-arriving-now-2/

    0Reply
  • Jacob Villalobos
    Whittier , CA · Member since 2013 · 176 posts · 96 votes
    8y

    Property manager= Find a new one

    400k a year? Come on...

    If she pays on time, keep her.  If not well...

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    8y

    I wasn't sure how to edit  this but things just went from bad to worse. tenant claimed she fell down the stairs and hurt herself due to the hazardous conditions of replacing the floor. two weeks later she claimed to fall again.  she is scamming me, No lawsuit filed as yet. hopefully to see an attorney soon. anyone else experience this?

    0Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    8y
    I would stop delaying hiring a lawyer. Get a good real estate lawyer and see what you can do to get her out ASAP. I would not respond to any of her messages without consulting a lawyer first so that you do not accidentally dig yourself in deeper. And in the future do not allow anyone to find a tenant for you without you personally approving their documentation. If they do not want to do a credit check then do not use them to find a tenant.
    1Reply
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