Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 56 votes
Hey guys,
I'm debating about dabbing into the Section 8 housing pool as a landlord and want to know if any of you have had good or bad experiences. Do you recommend it? Why or why not?
I see green lights all the way, but from my general past experiences, this is when I should pull over, get out of the car and look both ways :cool:
Real Estate Broker · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 42 posts · 24 votes
15y
Hi- Sorry to take so long getting back to your questions. Yes I do go to and take care of my properties myself. Though I mainly only go during daylight hours. Though I haven't read The Section 8 Bible I can tell you this. I fix things when they break, paint as needed between tenants, give to tenants clean and expect clean in return. I visit each every 3 months or so. My tenants are poor and struggling but I treat them with respect and get respect in return. Like Jennifer says we also rent to them if they meet our critieria. And to repeat Jennifer again the Housing Authority sends me a check every month. Good luck all. Cheers, Richard
Real Estate Broker · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 42 posts · 24 votes
15y
Hi Tony- I love Sec 8. I have properties in Salinas CA and Sec 8 are my preferred tenants. Think about it. In Salinas it takes two years to get a voucher. They don't want to mess that up. The local inspector is tough but fair so we get along well. She is looking to make sure that the properties are in good shape for the tenant. If I satifsy her then the tenant is happy. The tenants pay their share of the rent, on time, every time. They don't want problems. The Sec 8 office pays their share on time, every time. So I'm happy. In our area typically the tenant is a single mom with 2,3,4,6 kids so there will be more wear and tear. Salinas has a problem with gangs but what gang banger is going to wait two years to do anything. Sec 8 pays market rate and if you think that the market has gone up you can ask and get a rent increase. All this said you still need to use your gut feeling whether you want to rent to anyone. If you gut says no then don't. Good luck.
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 56 votes
15y
Richard,
Thank you for your input! Your properties are in Salinas which is a gang area like you said. Is this an area you chose because you wanted it as an investment or is one of the qualifications to become an approved Section 8 landlord - a geographical requirement?
Real Estate Broker · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 42 posts · 24 votes
15y
I chose Salinas because properties there can more easily have positive cash flow and it is a community where people work. When you drive around during the day the driveways are empty but after 5:00 they are overflowing.
There is no coorelation between the gangs or geographical area and Sec 8. The point I was hoping to make was that my sense is that the Sec 8 tenants are less likely to be personally involved with gangs. In talking with other Sec 8 landlords this seems to be the case here. In Monterey county there are some 4000 Sec 8 units scattered throughout the whole county. If a tenant has a voucher, a landlord accepts Sec 8 and finds the amount agreeable and the property meets the inspection requirements that is about all there is to it. .
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 56 votes
15y
Richard,
Great, that was exactly what i wanted to know. Your info helped a lot and I will be visting the section 8 housing authority later on today for more detail. Thanks again!
Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
15y
Richard, I am curious if you've ever read "The Section 8 Bible," and if so, what your thoughts are on that harsh a management style.
The book's basic concept is, "Provide ONLY what is required, and not one thing extra, because it's going to be the source of constant repair or replacement."
For example, the author says that if the unit has a garbage disposal, take it OUT right away, before you rent it. A disposal is not required, and it's just something that can go wrong.
Also, the author discusses "carpet in a can," which is basically painting the floors since carpet is not "required."
These are but a couple examples, but I think you get the idea.
I'd love some insight on exactly how tough you have to be with tenants in these rougher neighborhoods, in relation to repairs and maintenance.
Lastly, do you venture into these neighborhoods yourself, or do you use a property manager? Also, if I may (and you're under no obligation to answer, of course), if you do go into these places, do you carry a weapon with you?
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 56 votes
15y
Good questions Paul. I know we're in a business and all decisions are only to be logical to make money at the end of the day with no emotional attachments, but that Section 8 Bible management style seems unreasonable. Reminds me of mistreated animals or something.
Property Manager · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 51 posts · 61 votes
15y
Hey Paul,
If you were a tenant and you had to choose between a house that had carpet and a garbage disposal and other items one expects to find in a house or a house without a garbage disposal and concrete floor painted black, which one would you chose? I would think common sense would make you chose the house that violates all the provisions in the landlord bible book. So if you follow the book then you are not getting tenants. Sec8 tenants don't look at these 2 houses and say well technically carpet is not required so I guess I will live in the house that doesn't have it instead of the house that does. They are human beings too that would prefer to live in as nice a place as they can afford and I bet you a zillion bucks they will chose the house with the carpet. That is my answer to your question about whether or not you should provide the bare minimum and nothing more.
Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
15y
Jennifer, I don't completely disagree with you. However, I'm also open to the possibility that there are all different manners of Section 8 tenants.
From what I could tell, it looked like the author of the "Bible" was into very, VERY low-cost properties that attracted very, VERY sketchy renters. I'm trying not to use the word that rhymes with "drum-board," but you know what I mean.
And from an economic point of view, he seems to have made a very nice business out of it, amassing a pile of rentals that throw off a ton of cash flow. According to the author, he started with $34,000 and ended up owning 300 rentals.
Now, is that the kind of business I would want to run? Financial success aside, no, it's not. But I am eager to hear from Richard who has experience in this area where I have absolutely none.
Property Manager · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 51 posts · 61 votes
15y
Paul,
Good point. Seems the authors business model reflected the quality of property he purchased and the quality of tenant he rented to. Doesn't mean that transfers just as conveniently to someone that would own a "A" class property renting to "A" class tenants. The best suggestion is to take what others have done successfully and then modify it to your particular setting.
I have had Section 8 tenants that my partner and I have turned their names into verbs to describse something so bad that there is no other word in the dictionary that describes how bad it is. But then on the other hand my first tenant was a Sec8 tenant and she is still with me and she is a dream of a tenant.
Sec8 tenants are not different than any other tenants. There are good ones and there are bad ones. If you have a sec8 tenant where housing authority pays 100% direct deposit on 1st of each month into your bank account, there is nothing better.
We rent to anyone that meets our criteria including section 8 tenants.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
I bought the Section 8 Bible prior to buying my rentals. And my first tenant was - you guessed it - Section 8. I found most of the book a little over the top as far as what to offer in the house. Painted floors? No way.
But the author does have a point. If something isn't necessary, and comparable rentals in your area don't have it, take it out. I removed the ceiling fans from my properties in NJ and replaced them with nice, simple Home Depot light fixtures. Not an extreme move, but if the tenant broke the ceiling fan, I'd have to replace it with another one. Keep it simple as far as amenities.
When tenants were looking at my property, Section 8 and market rate, they all commented on how clean it looked and smelled. Fresh paint and a thorough scrubbing go a long way, more so than most amenities.
That first tenant was a superb housekeeper but her attitude was strictly "I'm entitled". I lost track of the things she asked for, and when she didn't get them, she got nasty. She had no fear of losing her voucher. She kept my property in good condition and her rent showed up like clockwork, so we had a workable relationship for 2.5 years.
S8 tenants are really no different than others in behavior. Some are great, some aren't. But the check comes every month, and if you take care of your property and pass the yearly inspections, you can raise the rent every year.
Real Estate Broker · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2010 · 42 posts · 24 votes
15y
Hi- Sorry to take so long getting back to your questions. Yes I do go to and take care of my properties myself. Though I mainly only go during daylight hours. Though I haven't read The Section 8 Bible I can tell you this. I fix things when they break, paint as needed between tenants, give to tenants clean and expect clean in return. I visit each every 3 months or so. My tenants are poor and struggling but I treat them with respect and get respect in return. Like Jennifer says we also rent to them if they meet our critieria. And to repeat Jennifer again the Housing Authority sends me a check every month. Good luck all. Cheers, Richard
Commercial Real Estate Broker · Memphis, TN · Member since 2010 · 151 posts · 82 votes
15y
I teNd to describe section 8 as a huge pain in the butt during the inspection and administration phase. These areas make it almost seem not worth it. For the areas that typically have section 8 and having guaranteed rent it's a pain worth dealing with. You goal should be to maximize rents collected and reduce maintenance expenses with lower income sfh. Section 8 takes care of half that for you.
Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
15y
Originally posted by Aly L:
I bought the Section 8 Bible prior to buying my rentals. And my first tenant was - you guessed it - Section 8. I found most of the book a little over the top as far as what to offer in the house. Painted floors? No way.
I found the book a little extreme too, especially the part about removing extra windows. :roll: But I guess their experiences were in very rough areas of Philly.
Someone told me that Section 8 leases renew automatically and so it's very difficult to evict a problem tenant. Is this really true?
Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Tony--I have had ups and downs with section 8. Some of them have a hard time, well, let me rephrase that. They have no interest in paying a cent over their voucher. Then today, I found out one of our section 8 tenants was going to prison for fraud in reporting information to get on the program. If you get a good section 8 tenant where the voucher pays 100% of the rent, then you are probably good. Most of these individuals are simply sponging off the government and have no interest in working for a living. That last statement has nothing to do with your original question, just a personal opinion.
Real Estate Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2011 · 74 posts · 17 votes
15y
Thanks to Richard for reminding us that Section 8 tenants deserve fair treatment! Agreed, it can be a real pain in the butt for inspections but only the first time. Once you get used to the guidelines, they are a good minimal rule of thumb. How can you not like government guaranteed rental income? You can get bad tenants no matter where their money comes from.
Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2009 · 200 posts · 74 votes
15y
Tony,
When you choose Sec8, I highly recommend checking your local sec8 office. It can make a big difference on hassles you deal with. Our local Denver Sec8 office is one of the most incompetent and difficult business relationships I have. They just got sued this last year for giving out owners SSN and addresses to tenants.
I have heard of decent Sec8 offices that work well and help both owners and tenants. That could very well be a deciding factor. Just food for thought.
As far as tenants go, its still your job to screen them and provide a good residence. Good and bad tenants exist in sec8, no different than the general rental pool.
Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes
15y
I have a property that I am just getting ready to rent out after finishing repairs. I have had several people who live on the street approach me about renting from me, they have problems with their landlords not making repairs or the properties being forclosed on. Most of the people I have talked to are on section 8 and suggested I get approved to rent section 8. I am wondering how difficult it is to do this. I contacted the section 8 office and they told me I need a tenant to apply to use section 8 to live their for the approval process to start. What are the hurdles to getting a property approved? Many of you mentioned the inspections, what kinds of things would be different than a non-section 8 rental?
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Kyle Meyers:
What are the hurdles to getting a property approved? Many of you mentioned the inspections, what kinds of things would be different than a non-section 8 rental?
If you have a clean and fully-functional rental, you should be fine. Inspectors are looking to ensure that the property meets minimum Housing Quality Standards (HQS).
Here the basics that the inspector will look at:
- Windows and Doors are installed and working
- No major damage to floors and walls
- All plumbing works, hot and cold water, no leaks, etc
- Exhaust fan or window in all bathrooms
- Electrical works with cover plates on all outlets/switches
- A light installed in every major room, etc
- Working heating system
- Smoke detector on every floor
- Stairs and walkways up to code
Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
alex.... a vote for the personal opinion! my buddy has a section 8 rental collecting 1,100 a month...the tenant is responsible for another 100/month...she doesn't pay...he doesn't say anything bc he knows he's still getting 1,100/month guaranteed..section 8, like unemployment should have a time constraint in my opinion...getting section for 30 years, and then having their children do the same thing doesn't reward hard work...it does the opposite...off my soap box--sorry! :roll:
Real Estate Investor · NY · Member since 2008 · 313 posts · 87 votes
15y
I have 5 units that are rented to sec. 8 . Its not a bad program and the tenants are pretty decent. As long as you fix things when they break its not big deal. Just dont get a bad reputation for being a slumlord and your ok. Also one of my units has a garbage disposal and it has been broken for the last 2 inspections and no one said anything. Also I paint some of my floors in a few properties and they come out quite well. Usually paint with quality paint and do a coat or 2 of poly on top. Much cheaper than carpet and holds up much better when some of these familys have 6 kids and dogs.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
J is right about the Housing Quality Standards, and your Section 8 office will fax you a copy prior to your inspection. If your city requires a C/O, you'll need to get most of these items compliant anyway.
Beware of taking a tenant whose entire voucher doesn't cover your rent. As BryanA mentioned, and I experienced, you likely won't get a dime over that from the tenant no matter what the lease says. You can definitely evict for it though, the tenant has to abide by the lease but most landlords have that outlook. Take something rather than nothing.
Evicting in NJ for other than non payment of rent can indeed be difficult. S8 tenants have access to free legal aid and there's no shortage of that.
Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2009 · 200 posts · 74 votes
15y
Be ready to fix minor problems after the inspector comes through. I had a recently renovated unit I had to spend more money on for inspection items. The inspector even commented that it was the best condition property he had seen. Its merely their job to find issues.
One benefit of Sec8 is its getting harder to get into the program. (2011 budget was did not increase) That means once kicked out, its much harder to get back in. No one wants to lose that gravy train. This info can be a great tool in your arsenal when getting tenants to pay.
I would get duplicates on water and power bills though. Non payment of those seems to be a big issue with a lot of my sec8 tenants.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Mat Lewczenko:
Jason, what do you mean by "duplicates"?
I assume he means that he gets the utility companies to send duplicate copies of the bills/notices to him (in addition to the tenants who are responsible for paying the bills). This way, you as the landlord can see if the utilities are being paid on time, etc...