San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes
Hi y'all! So my husband and I are going back and forth on this... one of our tenants uses her front porch area as storage. It is a MESS and is very unsightly. My husband wants to write her an official letter demanding that she keep the space clear or at least tidy. I'm pretty sure that we can't make her do that - the lease (which we inherited from the previous owners) only states vaguely that she has to keep the "premises clean." Anyone have any thoughts or experiences with this sort of thing?
Rental Property Investor · DFW, TX · Member since 2013 · 953 posts · 910 votes
8y
@Alyssa Lebetsamer
Send her the letter with very clear terms what she must do. If she wants justification you can call it outside storage and a fire hazard. Comb through the municipal or state property ordanance if you want to cite it but most places allow for landlord rules that you can change as long as you give them notice. Fire codes are usually pretty broad so it's a good starting point.
You most definatly do have the right and should send her notice that all items are to be removed. If it is large enough to have furniture you should be very specific about what you will allow. Never allow any tenant to disrespect yur property or the community. Make her clean it up, you need to take pride in your own property. You are negligent in your tenant training.
No household furniture permitted.
I would suggest you keep up on your quarterly inspections as she is likely a slob and you will need to police the entire unit.
Real Estate Investor · Plumas county, CA · Member since 2011 · 150 posts · 88 votes
8y
I actually include verbiage to address this in my rental agreements. An early lesson taught to me by a hoarder tenant helped there. I agree with @Peter M. that you can approach it as a fire hazard. If you have month to month you can then send out an ammendment prohititing this sort of thing.
I specifically prohibit outside storage of cardboard boxes. Outside use of 'inside ' upholstered ' furniture, etc. No couches in the yards!
havent had many issues in the past few years after I started visiting their place of residence in advance...gives me a look around to see how they will treat my place. If they have junky yards/porches, mine will look the same.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
8y
@Alyssa Lebetsamer
So yeah as others stated . You can definitely end this nonsense . Don’t be timid . Timidity is a terrible trait to have as a landlord. You gotta be firm ! That means if you see something that really bothers you then address it to their face
First of all, have you talked to the tenant about it? You inherited her, but when? I am always against using "an official letter" to bully your tenants, and I suspect that's what's about to happen here. Certified letters should be used to cover your butt. There should never be anything in one of them that the tenant hasn't heard from you first unless the eviction is already under way.
I understand and appreciate that the tenant having a junked-out porch offends you. But the offense that it gives you may just be interpreted as a value judgment on your tenant's part.
For instance, as a practicing Greek Orthodox Christian, I am most grievously offended by much of what my tenants do.
And yet I've never brought up any of this with them. I do my best to put my many value judgments out of sight when I deal with my tenants. I shut my mouth hole because of a thing Jesus Christ also taught: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." And of course, base and greedy as it is, I also keep my mouth hole shut because it wouldn't be particularly profitable to bring all of this up with my tenants.
So I would try to bring this up non-judgmentally with your tenant in a phone call or face-to-face before you send that letter. You do have legitimate reasons for wanting that porch empty. I would bring them up. Don't be mean, don't use terms like "slob," "pig," and "hoarder," don't look and act all judgey, but make it clear that you don't want her using the porch as outside storage, and that it's a problem.
If she persist, send her the letter, serve an eviction notice on her, kick in the door, crucify her to a wall, whatever you want to show her how firm and steadfast you are and that your adamantine will in this must not be defied.
But first make an effort to communicate nicely to her that the porch is a problem. Your goal is to solve the problem, not create a conflict where you don't have to, not impress upon your tenant your distaste and contempt of her life choices and standards.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
8y
@Jim K.
Wow that was a sermon ! Actually To be honest I needed to hear that myself . As a landlord it’s so easy to judge people and forget they are people like me
Just to answer your questions, we inherited her about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, we have had to do most of our communications with her via the mail because she doesn't speak English. Let me re-phrase that. She actually does speak English - I have heard her speak it many times - not perfectly but very passable. But when it comes to speaking with me she always states that she doesn't speak any. I also speak passable Spanish, I want to add, but she claims she doesn't understand me. Basically she is incredibly difficult and we have resorted to dealing with her mostly through letters. It has worked very well so far. I don't usually resort to that with my other tenants.
Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 136 posts · 48 votes
8y
@Alyssa Lebetsamer
I recommend you address this immediately as it could turn into a fine from code enforcement.
I always find it interesting how some tenants suddenly forget how to speak English when they are being told of lease violations. If writing is best, then do it in writing.
As most leases are a year, she's due for a new one. Do some research on how to add as much CYA to your lease as you can (little things like making them responsible for clogged toilets and clearly designing what is prohibited and permitted can save you a lot of headache and expense). Then tell her that her lease has expired and a new one needs tp be signed. She can sign or move. This is also a good time to ensure you are getting fair market rent, too.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y
Ok, so it isn't very specific in the lease. But, you said you inherited this tenant a year and a half ago. Are they month-to-month? Ask them to clean up the porch. If they decline or do not do it, either serve notice to end their lease, or modify your lease with specific language to address these things in the future.
Here's a small excerpt from my 10 page lease...
1.CLEANING:Tenant(s) is responsible for cleaning all areas of the Premises, including but not limited to; living room, dining room, kitchen, hallways, laundry room, bedrooms, closets, bathrooms, outdoor walkways, and parking spaces. To prevent the infestation of rodents and insects, Tenants must remove any collected trash and food waste from the Premise at least once a week. Carpets and Rugs must be vacuumed at least once a week. Hardwood floors or Tiles must be swept once a week. Bathrooms must be cleaned regularly, and as frequently as needed, to prevent the formation of mold and mildew. If Tenant(s) does not clean adequately and regularly, Tenant(s) will be liable for reasonable cleaning charges – including charges for cleaning carpets, draperies, blinds, furniture, walls, etc. that are soiled beyond normal wear (that is, wear or soiling that occurs without negligence, carelessness, accident, or abuse). Landlord reserves the right to hire a recurring Professional Cleaning/Maid Service if Tenant(s) are not keeping the Premises in clean/sanitary order at Landlord’s own judgment. This expense will be the responsibility of the Tenant(s).
San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes
8y
@Anthony Wick Yes, the lease had converted to month to month by the time we bought the building. It's a triplex and all three tenants are now on month to month. The leases that they had signed were the most vague contracts I have ever seen. Two and a half pages long. I barely covers anything! I am looking into the legality of having them all sign new leases now, or possibly adding addendum. I'm legally in over my head so I have to tread carefully. My own leases are much more thorough, so I don't run into issues like this.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y
On inherited tenants, I would get them under my lease as soon as possible. MTM? 60 day notice to sign my lease. I like a 1 year lease, but that's just preference. I wouldn't even go an addendum to somebody elses lease. Get all tenants of yours under your lease. I wouldn't ask them if they'd be ok with it. I'd inform all tenants that your lease is required to sign if they'd like to stay. Their choice as well. If they don't like it, they can simply move out.
Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
When was the last time you took a look inside?
If the outside is a huge mess, you had better check the inside real soon....you may only be seeing the overflow....tip of the iceberg
If they are playing the "no habla English" BS, I would find a someone that speaks fluent Spanish and take them with you
Whenever you inherit a tenant, you have no choice but to ride out the current lease but as soon as that expires, have them sign YOUR lease or move out....no exceptions. If they are already M2M, that's easy..... they have 30 days to sign the new lease or vacate..... should have done that on day one after previous lease expired
Investor · Wellington, KS · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 188 votes
8y
You don't need a lease to create and enforce occupancy rules. I wouldn't have them sign a new lease because right now you have all the power and can terminate their tenancy with proper notice under applicable state law. If you enter into a term lease, you are bound by it and can not change the terms, terminate tenancy or raise rents unless allowed by the lease. Under a term lease, you aren't really able to control when the tenant leaves, they leave when they want to even if it breaks the lease. I would keep them on the month to month, inspect the unit and decide whether to keep them. If I decided to keep them, I would prepare a list of occupancy rules in writing and sit down with them to go over them and sign them. If they don't sign or don't comply, give them appropriate notice to vacate. I would also evaluate the amount of the rent in light of the market and the condition of the unit. The old lease is most likely irrelevant under your state law and you can take control of the situation with your property. If the other tenants are good tenants, they will appreciate it too and take notice of your actions setting an expectation of how they are to keep their units. Don't sign a new term lease.
Rental Property Investor · Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes
8y
@Anthony Wick
Wow ten page lease agreement! I’m still using a basic two page and have been worried about it lately after reading some of these posts. Your agreement wouldn’t happen to be in BP files would it?
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
8y
@Candace Ellison
Come on ,DId you even read the whole post ? .. it was satire To illustrate how a pius religious person With perhaps a self righteous attitude could have negative results managing their properties by being unprofessional and judging people . It would do you well to Reread it again
My lease is not on BP. I owned for a long time, in several states, including rentals, then (long story short) liquidated all that and rented for 4 years. My lease is a culmination of my last two leases while renting, my inherited tenants leases, another BP members lease from Iowa, and reading and listening to about 5,000 BP posts/blogs and podcasts. The lease is bulked up with very specific language on tenants keeping the place clean, free of bugs, and maintenance. And the tenants must initial every page and sign the last page. I've heard some landlords will actually read the entire lease to their tenants. I don't go that far.
Rental Property Investor · Clinton, MS · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 0 votes
8y
I agree with much of what others have posted.
Just speaking from my own personal experience, letting things slide will only lead to much bigger problems that are harder to correct. I've often tried to be nice and let a little junk go ignored, or some food left out on the patio for a day or two pass, or even $100 less rent go unpaid for the month (with expectation of them catching up next month). In other words, I consider myself a nice guy that wants to do good for other and give them the benefit of the doubt, but I cannot think of a single time that it has turned out well for me. Every time I've been burned and had to end up dealing with a much bigger problem, bug/rodent issues affecting surrounding tenants, city notices, tenant skips town after giving their sob story of being behind on rent, etc...
All that to say, if the lease is month-to-month, let the tenant know what has to happen or she has to go. As others have already posted, make some changes in any future leases...in fact, I saw some suggestions I'm going to implement in my own lease.
It's one thing to be nice and easy to work with, but it another to be taken advantage of with your own property.
Just speaking from my own personal experience, letting things slide will only lead to much bigger problems that are harder to correct. I've often tried to be nice and let a little junk go ignored, or some food left out on the patio for a day or two pass, or even $100 less rent go unpaid for the month (with expectation of them catching up next month). In other words, I consider myself a nice guy that wants to do good for other and give them the benefit of the doubt, but I cannot think of a single time that it has turned out well for me. Every time I've been burned and had to end up dealing with a much bigger problem, bug/rodent issues affecting surrounding tenants, city notices, tenant skips town after giving their sob story of being behind on rent, etc...
All that to say, if the lease is month-to-month, let the tenant know what has to happen or she has to go. As others have already posted, make some changes in any future leases...in fact, I saw some suggestions I'm going to implement in my own lease.
It's one thing to be nice and easy to work with, but it another to be taken advantage of with your own property.
“No good deed goes unpunished “
It’s a shame but good hearted , timid , or easy going landlords get punished relentlessly by most tenants especially in low income areas.