Problems with tenant BEFORE she moves in...HELP!!!!!

Problems with tenant BEFORE she moves in...HELP!!!!!

Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes

Hubby and I have multiple units out of state in Michigan. What that said, we have contractors doing the work for us, and overseeing things, while they communicate with us. I just had someone sign a lease on Monday, and she later called me to tell me that the bathroom was leaking under the sink, and the basement had water in it. When I originally advertised this property, I advertised it as an efficiency with/a small room that can be used as a small bedreoom/den...due to the size of the room (the porch was enclosed to create the room). So although the room has windows, a door, and a closet, I didn't feel right calling it a one-bedroom. It also has a basement, which is unusable for anything other than storage because it's one of the ORIGINAL Michigan basements. Anyways, that's a little background...when I spoke to the tenant yesterday about the leak, she obviously sounded unhappy, so I asked her were there any other problems? She said, "well, there's just a lot of little things"...I proceeded to tell her that I am not a slumlord, and I rely heavily on my contractors to tell me the condition of the properties, but that if she gives me a list, I'll be more than happy to fix all reasonable requests. I JUST received her list. Take a look at it. And keep in mind that her rent is $325 a month, she has a dog, and she has NOT moved her things in yet...she has signed a lease, received her keys, and has given me her prorated 1st month's rent and her security deposit. Take a look at her list! What should I do? I will definitely fix all of the reasonable issues, but I do NOT want her as a tenant going forward...I want to evict her NOW!

Radiator in kitchen is hanging off the wall
no outside light- no bulbs, they are broken on the ground outside
no screens on any windows. The porch has a screen but it is all ripped up
paint on porch windows are chipped off
door frame was not painted, on the inside and outside, also where they added new wood for the lock.
No dead bolt
Dining Room(hardwood) Radiator control wires are exposed and this radiator does not work
Living Room(carpet area) top left corner of the window you can see through it
Trim around that window has not been sealed in, or painted.
all trim around the base of the room has paint drips and roller marks on them
smoke alarm in LR does not work
Smoke alarm in bed room does not work
kitchen ceiling at corner leaks water
water running down wall by bathroom in kitchen
kitchen ceiling has cracks from damage
bathroom door frame is not painted
bathroom needs to be repainted.
bathroom sink leaks underneath. The bottom of the cabinet is bowed and may have mold, it is wet.
Stopper is missing for the sink and the tub
tub seal is not sealed, just a few finishing nails are in it. There is a gap toward the bottom that is 1/2 inch wide.
toilet tank lid is cracked and broken, it has been glued
floor seems really soft next to toilet.
cove base is pealing off, and bubbled around the room
switch plate is not screwed on right, with the screw sticking out at an angle
no basement door
stairway is not painted, the walls are DIRTY
Basement walls are chipping with paint falling off
Moldy paneling laying on the raised part of the basement. In the far corner there is white stringy mold under the panels.
no furnace filter
duct tape on tub drain
tub drain leaks
carpet in basement is wet
no sink stoppers in the kitchen
mold under the sink in the kitchen
no shut offs to any of the water lines to unit 1
stove is coated with grim and dirt, on top and down the sides
no blinds on any windows
drip pans on stove are filthy and filled with grim
carpet in LR has stains and paint spilled on it
kitchen outlet on wall with the door to the apartment is loss, it moves back and forth
Oven handle is falling off
Broken circut breaker in the fuse box, a couple are not in the box right
ghi's are bad in the kitchen and bathroom
all drawers in the kitchen are nailed shut except for 1. The drawer to the left of the stove is falling apart.
flooring under the stove has dead bugs and possible mold
fridge drawer is not on a runner, the shelf to this drawer is cracked. The fridge has a lot of filth in it as does the freezer.
no closet doors in the bedroom
No overflow valve on the water heater--pressure relief valve
window in bedroom latches, and handles.
window in the bedroom is also painted shut. They painted over cigerette butts by the old lock...
counter tops in the kitchen have chips, nickle size, and knife marks all over the tops of them. The edge toward the basement door is all chipped up and missing.
On top of the upper cabinets there are two syringes aith needles attached, and garbage on top.

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
15y

I'll take a slightly different perspective here. While I agree that a tenant who identifies all these issues up front may be a problem on an ongoing basis, many of these items really should be dealt with. Some of these are piddly items that are perhaps just part of the deal for $325 a month. Some are serious hazards and would be code violations in my area. Some sound like real problems in your property that I would want to fix if this was mine. The place sounds like its not very clean. Who ever did some of this work did a sloppy job (paint over cigarette butts? really?) and I'd never use them again.

I don't rent my units with these sort of issues. There are quite a number of items on this list that I would address. OTOH, I don't have $325 units, so maybe this just comes with the territory.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    Okay, so here's the deal...I combed through the list with my husband, my contractor and my father: 50% of the items are legitimate, although very small (e.g., no drain stoppers); 25% of the items are either innacurate or extremely exagerated (for example, the "non-working radiator with exposed wire" is actually working (perhaps she just didn't know how to turn it on), and the "exposed wire" was actually a CABLE wire near the "radiator"; and the other 25%, we are still deciding if we're going to fix/change or not.

    Thanks for all your input. It's truly appreciated!

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by George P.:
    Is it only me who thinks that the topic starter wants to evict the tenant for not wanting to live in a dump?
    PS Wonder how much a rental like this costs

    No, I don't want to evict her for "not wanting to live in a dump", as this place is NOT a dump at all. And if you read my post, you'd know her rent was $325. My point is that to me, she appears to have worked for, or have a relationship with, an inspector of some sort. I don't want a tenant calling me every month telling me that the "radiator is hanging off the wall", when in actuality, one of the screws just isn't screwed in tightly.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    One last thing, guys: We do NOT own any rentals in Detroit...Detroit is NOT the only city in Michigan ;). (sorry, that just annoys me that it seems ppl think the only city in MI is Detroit...everytime I say I'm from Michigan, ppl say, "Oh, Detroit"?...wow)

    Ophelia,

    I am just like you...I am ON it when a Tenant calls. My absolute intent is to rent houses that I could live in myself...regardless of how bad this list looks (trust me, it looks MUCH worst than what it is in reality), I am a good landlord, and I tend to every issue...which is why I will be fixing most of what's on the list before Friday (things like re-enforcing the stove handle; and by the way, it's just loose). But like you said, I don't want a tenant calling me for bogus stuff every month, or worse yet, every week.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:

    No, I don't want to evict her for "not wanting to live in a dump", as this place is NOT a dump at all. And if you read my post, you'd know her rent was $325. My point is that to me, she appears to have worked for, or have a relationship with, an inspector of some sort. I don't want a tenant calling me every month telling me that the "radiator is hanging off the wall", when in actuality, one of the screws just isn't screwed in tightly.

    I think you need to get there and go over list with the tenant. This way you can address the issue and know for sure what needs to be done and what's just an exaggeration. I know it's a long way from Maryland, but if she calls an housing inspector and all of these things will be confirmed, you might face the real consequences.
    Not sure why you bring $325 over and over again? Does it mean people shouldn't expect a decent place to live for that much?
  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by George P.:

    Not sure why you bring $325 over and over again? Does it mean people shouldn't expect a decent place to live for that much?

    No disrespect, George, but are you paying attention to the thread? I only said she's paying $325 TWICE - once during my original post (just because I thought it would be a question asked), and a second time because YOU asked what the rental was going for...

    By the way, the situation has been resolved - no need for me to go there. Thanks for your input!

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:
    Originally posted by George P.:

    Not sure why you bring $325 over and over again? Does it mean people shouldn't expect a decent place to live for that much?

    No disrespect, George, but are you paying attention to the thread? I only said she's paying $325 TWICE - once during my original post (just because I thought it would be a question asked), and a second time because YOU asked what the rental was going for...

    By the way, the situation has been resolved - no need for me to go there. Thanks for your input!

    I originally wanted to know what these rentals cost (not what they're rented for) - just to see what kind return they can generate. Given the low rent, I assume they sell inexpensively (perhaps in the 20k's?)

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by George P.:
    Originally posted by newlife30:
    Originally posted by George P.:

    Not sure why you bring $325 over and over again? Does it mean people shouldn't expect a decent place to live for that much?

    No disrespect, George, but are you paying attention to the thread? I only said she's paying $325 TWICE - once during my original post (just because I thought it would be a question asked), and a second time because YOU asked what the rental was going for...

    By the way, the situation has been resolved - no need for me to go there. Thanks for your input!

    I originally wanted to know what these rentals cost (not what they're rented for) - just to see what kind return they can generate. Given the low rent, I assume they sell inexpensively (perhaps in the 20k's?)

    Oh okay, that's my misinterpretation of your question...my apolgies. This actual house is a two-unit; this "efficiency", which is technically a one-bedroom, and a one-bedroom upstairs. My all-in costs were approximately $10k.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    One last thing, and I'm done (I think..lol). My painters painted above the cabinets (that she claimed had syringes on top of them), and they saw NOTHING of the sort. I just don't know what her intentions are...would her point be to suck us dry every month, or make bogus claims and withhold her rent?

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    Your painters also painted over cigarette butts, according to this prospective tenant.

    I'd agree that she's probably too picky and you're better off without her. But I continue to believe you ignore the issues she's raised, and continue to believe your contractors at your peril. Their stories are inconsistent and that makes the situation worth checking out.

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    yep, i think you need to see what's going on for yourself...at minimum, maybe you can pay a BP member in the area 50 bucks to check in...or go to craigslist, find an agent/property manager, and pay them the 50 bucks...

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    Your painters also painted over cigarette butts, according to this prospective tenant.

    I'd agree that she's probably too picky and you're better off without her. But I continue to believe you ignore the issues she's raised, and continue to believe your contractors at your peril. Their stories are inconsistent and that makes the situation worth checking out.

    The part about painting over cigarette butts, I addressed with the painters, and they said that was a window seal that they did not paint because it was already painted, and looked nice...they looked deep down into the window, and they DID see the cigarette butts (after I pointed it out to them), but they said she would have had to really look deep down to see that. However, they have since removed them, of course.

    I am not ignoring any of the issues raised...trust me...I'm just not that type of person. The information/confirmations I'm getting is not only coming from my contractors...everything is being confirmed by my dad! He lives there; he's a master electrican, and he was in Real Estate for 20 years...so his opinion of the matter is highly respectable. Thanks again for your input, Jon...It's truly valued!

  • Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    More evidence of the profitability of long-distance investments

    Jon, that was a low blow :roll: . It would not matter if this unit were next door or across the country. The issue here is the market, not the distance from the owner. Rentals under $500 per month in most markets will be low income housing and thus have these kinds of issues.

    With good property management in place, the owner wouldn't even have to look at a list or tenant like this.

    Actually, this is more evidence for the use of quality property management. That is, unless you like having a .38 strapped to your tool belt. I average paying 7% for PM so monthly management would cost me $22.75 for this unit. And it would be the BEST $22.75 I ever spent! I was making that much for 30 minutes of work at my last job.

    Another good point here is that a PM will have a quality repair person/team in place to handle these types of issues. If a contractor wants to get continual work from a PM, they have to do quality work for a reasonable price or the PM will not use them again. All the owner has to do is keep the PM company on their toes, which is quite easy to do.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    My point was that if this was across town she could run over there and have a look and know what's going on. When I wrote that she had not said or I missed that dad was there in town. That makes a huge difference.

    I'll stand by the point, which you make, too, Mike, that you must have someone you trust intimately on the ground wherever your properties are.

    And I agree that units with rent this low are going to be troublesome. Nevertheless, a $375 rental that's all in at $10K sounds pretty attractive. My father-in-law had a pretty good business going with rentals like that.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    My point was that if this was across town she could run over there and have a look and know what's going on. When I wrote that she had not said or I missed that dad was there in town. That makes a huge difference.

    I'll stand by the point, which you make, too, Mike, that you must have someone you trust intimately on the ground wherever your properties are.

    And I agree that units with rent this low are going to be troublesome. Nevertheless, a $375 rental that's all in at $10K sounds pretty attractive. My father-in-law had a pretty good business going with rentals like that.

    $375 is just for the one unit...the top unit will be rented out for $400, so that's a total of $775/mo, at $10k all-in.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:

    $375 is just for the one unit...the top unit will be rented out for $400, so that's a total of $775/mo, at $10k all-in.

    $10k includes closing costs and renovation costs?
    That sounds like a good deal. Money back in a year.
    Just curious how much are the property taxes.
  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by George P.:
    Originally posted by newlife30:

    $375 is just for the one unit...the top unit will be rented out for $400, so that's a total of $775/mo, at $10k all-in.

    $10k includes closing costs and renovation costs?
    That sounds like a good deal. Money back in a year.
    Just curious how much are the property taxes.

    Yes, the $10k (actually it's more around $9k) includes purchase price, closing costs and renovations. The taxes on this one were $1320 last year.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:
    $375 is just for the one unit...the top unit will be rented out for $400, so that's a total of $775/mo, at $10k all-in.

    Very nice!

  • Real Estate Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2011 · 21 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    I wish I had a list like this when I rented my apartment. My landlord IS a slumlord and I know he'll create issues for chipped paint when I finally move out although the paint was chipped when I moved in. Lesson learned !

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    I'll admit..it's an EXCELLENT list; and I will certainly keep it on hand going forward in this business. lol

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    15y

    RUN! She's trouble.

  • Real Estate Investor · Eastpointe, MI · Member since 2010 · 29 posts · 6 votes
    15y

    Ok, is Ashton Kutcher going to run out soon with the "Punked Crew" on this one :lol:

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    UPDATE & advice needed:

    So, we fixed 90% of "the list", and then she discovered a leaky pipe in her kitchen ceiling; we fixed the pipe and then began to repair the ceiling while she was out of town. She told me that she didn't understand why it would take us a week to fix the pipe (when in actuality, it was only going to take about 4 days to fix the leak and repair the ceiling). Anyways, while my maintenance guy was in there fixing that leak, he disovered one in the bathroom (the house was vacant all winter, and was not properly winterized), and he fixed that one too. Well, he's still in the process of repairing the two ceilings (waiting on joint compound drying time). So, she emailed me this morning, and said she just doesn't want the apartment anymore...YAY!!!! So, anyways, we will certainly let her out of her lease. But there's one other issue, when my guy arrived to sand today, he noticed that the door jam was damaged - it looked as though someone had tried to kick in the door...NOOO!!!!!! So, he's going to repair it, and he's going to change the lock on the outside screen to a lock that will also lock from the outside (right now, it only locks from the inside). So my questions are as follows:

    1. I plan to give her security deposit back; but should I give her back all of her rent check as well, just to compensate her for the issues she had while she was there?
    2. How should I inform her about the issue of the door? I don't think we have any liability for it, do we? Or if she claims that she had some things stolen, do we have liability for that? I guess my assumption is that's the purpose of renter's insurance, and that's the tenant's responsibility (and risk if they don't get it), correct?

    Katrina

  • Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:

    1. I plan to give her security deposit back; but should I give her back all of her rent check as well, just to compensate her for the issues she had while she was there?

    Only return what you she is legally entitled to. This is not a popularity contest.

    Originally posted by newlife30:

    2. How should I inform her about the issue of the door? I don't think we have any liability for it, do we? Or if she claims that she had some things stolen, do we have liability for that? I guess my assumption is that's the purpose of renter's insurance, and that's the tenant's responsibility (and risk if they don't get it), correct?

    As you say; that's what renters insurance is for.
  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    ^ thank you! But how should I tell her about the door?

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y

    What if she wasn't aware about the door? I suppose the handyman didn't take picture of it and just proceeded to fix it?
    In any occasion, if someone tried to break in, I wonder why is it resident's fault and liability?

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