Eviction Nightmare with aggressive tenants.

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Eviction Nightmare with aggressive tenants.

Justin K.
East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes

I will preface this by saying this is 100% a self inflicted wound that in all honesty did know know was happening. I am an investor with two other "good old boys" who still believe in handshakes and verbal agreements.(I do not!!! I have worked for a larger company and contracts and written agreements are a rule of operations.

Property was bought 4/18 with tenant in place with signed contract with previous owner.

1st mistake- I was under the impression one of my other business partners received a new signed lease agreement for our company. That did not happen....

2nd mistake- we did not do our own internal due diligence and perform a background check.

3rd- one of my other partners was informed in June that the current tenants were subletting(I found out 10/23/18, yes 3 days ago) and did not tell me. I would have never allowed that. Their theory was that the bills are being paid, its all good.

4th- the tenant that was paying the rent stopped paying and missed the rent for October 1. They did not post notice or even make calls figuring out why. Again found out on 10/23/18.

We posted notice on 10/23/18 at 5pm and they have until 5pm today to leave or we will file per Texas eviction rules.

What makes things even better is the current people who are occupying MY PROPERTY basically called me and said "I wish you would come down and try to make me leave." Well the already pissed off, very Type A personality, very well trained guy wanted to throw on the plate carrier, go lights out, and get playful in the dark. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on how you look at it) my old age and wisdom kicked in and going to jail and lossing my family is not worth a rent house.

So basically I think we broke every rule of being a land lord possible. I basically told both partners that I am now taking over and I am running the show as I am not going to run my business as a charity. They fund, I run the business, I make my cut. 

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Bill F.
Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y

@Justin K. 

I have nothing of merit to add besides +1 for the phrase "get playful in the dark" 

You are making the right call by following the eviction script, despite how tempting going kinetic at 0300 may seem. 

Since this is your first eviction, paying an attorney to handle it may be worth its weight in gold.  1. You could treat it like eviction OJT and get a feel for if this is something that's in your wheel house or not.

2. It provides an insurance policy of sorts against you dragging this process out by making a mistake. Unknow unknowns kinda thing.

Good Luck

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  • Anthony R.
    Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Wendell Smith:
    @Anthony R. That is my point exactly. Most people will not understand why they need an attorney to take care of a simple eviction until it's possibly too late. Most people most of the time can get by without an attorney especially in areas where the process is fairly simple. Then there's the occasion when you run across that individual who is determined to manipulate the system so they can cause you as much grief and cost you as much money as possible. Now I know that some will say "I'll hire an attorney then" but it may be too late at that point. For example let's say that your tenant sued you for unlawful eviction alleging that you violated some obscure provision of the law and you didn't even know about that obscure provision so you probably did violate it. In this scenario you could have an uphill battle even if this individual intentionally took advantage of your ignorance and manipulated you into violating the law. All that I'm saying is that having a good attorney handle the eviction is like purchasing insurance. How many times do you drive on the road without having a wreck and how many days pass without our house burning? Yet most of us purchase insurance because we understand just how bad things can get and how little control we have over the rest of the world. Most of us choose to purchase insurance for financial protection and peace of mind but there are always some who take that gamble so that they can save the money. Whether one acts as their own attorney or not is a personal decision and should be an informed one.

    If I run into a situation where I ever lose an eviction then I'll consider it a learning experience, and try the eviction again. The judges use common sense when running trials out here. Maybe that's not the case where you are but I've seen many evictions and like I said, I've handled my own. 

    I've also handled other lawsuits that I've been involved in. So far I've won them all. 

    Smalls claims court is made for the common man and woman. It's made to be affordable and accessible for anyone to exercise their constitutional rights without having to hire an attorney. So when my win to lose ratio becomes unfavorable I'll sink hundreds into someone to go to trial for me. 

    Until then, I'll stick to my winning strategy.

    1. Air tight leases

    2. Solid leadership

    3. Track everything

    4. Don't hesitate 

    0Reply
  • Cara Lonsdale
    Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    The only partner I trust in my investing business is my husband. 

    All others have to be fully vetted. :)

    1Reply
  • Alan Trago
    Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Justin:

    With your stragety being to get the 'current people' out of your property asap, here is an idea. I had a male tenant years ago who skipped paying rent and according to his girlfriend he used the my rent as a deposit on a new apartment, so he was squatting my property. I talked to the delinquent tenant waving a crisp $100 bill in his face stating the money is his if he moves out today, signs an agreement surrenduring the apartment giving the key back. He was immediately on the phone with two neighbors accross the street with pickup trucks and yes he was out the same day, signed the agreement with keys returned and then I gave him the cash.

    For you, you could project the cost per day in rents not received multiplied by the amount of days he will be there with the court date & Sherriff serving the eviction and offer the tenant a percentage of that cash in his face and see if he takes the money and runs, freeing up the apartment.

    0Reply
  • Scott Sauter
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    @Justin Klepfer Hey Justin, I’m a TX Real Estate Agent. I had a career as a Paralegal before getting into RE. Instead of “getting playful in the dark”, hire a Private Detective. They are your best friend in this situation. For your purposes, they’d probably need around $500 retainer. Have them follow the tenants. Find out where they work. Forward your eviction & conversations to their employer. Get them fired & have the satification of two-fold revenge: evicted & fired lol *Im not an attorney and this not legal advice*
    1Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

    @Anthony R.  Eviction are extremely simple and straightforward in Texas.  This one has a twist in that @Justin K. is evicting a sub-lessor and not the person on the lease

    Justin- Like I said earlier in the thread, I believe you made a mistake by not adding the tenant on the lease as part of the eviction.  I would not even have named the current occupant as styled the suit as:

    Myself vs Original tenant and all other occupants

    A couple of other questions and observations just to help:

    -I would go to your profile and change it to just your initial so this thread cannot be googled by the occupant

    -Did you seek a monetary amount or just possession?  The occupant has no agreement to pay you

    -When you purchase a property you cannot force a tenant to sign a new lease with you.  Y'all assume the landlords position and are bound by that agreement

    I have been doing evictions for close to 30 years in Texas as Brokers are allowed to handle evictions .  Actually, recent law change allows anyone that you designate to handle them

     I did myself vs the current occupier which at the time I thought was one girl.  It wasnt until right before I posted this thread that i found out about the live in boyfriend. 

    Name has been changed. 

    I just want them out and did not go after monetary. If they do destroy my property, I would assume small claims courts would be my next options.  

    0Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alan Trago:

    Justin:

    With your stragety being to get the 'current people' out of your property asap, here is an idea. I had a male tenant years ago who skipped paying rent and according to his girlfriend he used the my rent as a deposit on a new apartment, so he was squatting my property. I talked to the delinquent tenant waving a crisp $100 bill in his face stating the money is his if he moves out today, signs an agreement surrenduring the apartment giving the key back. He was immediately on the phone with two neighbors accross the street with pickup trucks and yes he was out the same day, signed the agreement with keys returned and then I gave him the cash.

    For you, you could project the cost per day in rents not received multiplied by the amount of days he will be there with the court date & Sherriff serving the eviction and offer the tenant a percentage of that cash in his face and see if he takes the money and runs, freeing up the apartment.

     The threat of "come make me move out" does not sit well with me and I am not going to go down there and get into any kind of altercation. Even if i wave a a few hundred at him i dont think he will leave. 

    0Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Sauter:
    @Justin Klepfer

    Hey Justin,

    I’m a TX Real Estate Agent. I had a career as a Paralegal before getting into RE.

    Instead of “getting playful in the dark”, hire a Private Detective. They are your best friend in this situation. For your purposes, they’d probably need around $500 retainer.

    Have them follow the tenants. Find out where they work. Forward your eviction & conversations to their employer. Get them fired & have the satification of two-fold revenge: evicted & fired lol

    *Im not an attorney and this not legal advice*

     I like the get them evicted and get them fired idea. Except she is already unemployed and i am currently working on getting the employment status of the boy friend. 

    1Reply
  • Richard Sherman
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    Originally posted by @Justin K.:
    Originally posted by @Alan Trago:

    Justin:

    With your stragety being to get the 'current people' out of your property asap, here is an idea. I had a male tenant years ago who skipped paying rent and according to his girlfriend he used the my rent as a deposit on a new apartment, so he was squatting my property. I talked to the delinquent tenant waving a crisp $100 bill in his face stating the money is his if he moves out today, signs an agreement surrenduring the apartment giving the key back. He was immediately on the phone with two neighbors accross the street with pickup trucks and yes he was out the same day, signed the agreement with keys returned and then I gave him the cash.

    For you, you could project the cost per day in rents not received multiplied by the amount of days he will be there with the court date & Sherriff serving the eviction and offer the tenant a percentage of that cash in his face and see if he takes the money and runs, freeing up the apartment.

     The threat of "come make me move out" does not sit well with me and I am not going to go down there and get into any kind of altercation. Even if i wave a a few hundred at him i dont think he will leave. 

    Here is some very good advice, I heard it when I got started, ignored it, spent several thousand dollars and lots of headaches to learn it finally. Hopefully you can hear it better than I did.

    This is a BUSINESS it is not personal, he who takes it personally and acts emotionally loses, always. Have an attorney, friend, someone other than you offer them $250-1000 whatever you think an eviction will cost to hand over the keys. They get the cash when you get the property undamaged and they sign off saying they are willingly giving up possession. I imagine you got in this business to make it a real business, to scale up, you can not do that effectively and take every BS thing a tenant does personally. Get your systems in order, get out of the partnerships (if you need other people involved they can be investors, but even that I would try to avoid.)

    I just tell the tenants this "listen, you will lose so either you can have the money or the attorney can, your choice." DO NOT go over there without witnesses. Check the ego (that was my biggest issue) and run this like someone hired you to manage their business...which means you have to be professional even when others are not. Good luck !

    3Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Woodley:

    Wow! But at least you now have clear roles with your partners!  It should go smooth from this point going forward. But if you ever do decide to go kick some butt in the middle of the night... Please wear a go pro and share the video with me:). 

     I have been meaning to get a go pro adapter for my pvs14s. 

    Can I write that off as a business expense? Hahaa! 

    1Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Richard Sherman:

    Originally posted by @Justin K.:
    Originally posted by @Alan Trago:

    Justin:

    With your stragety being to get the 'current people' out of your property asap, here is an idea. I had a male tenant years ago who skipped paying rent and according to his girlfriend he used the my rent as a deposit on a new apartment, so he was squatting my property. I talked to the delinquent tenant waving a crisp $100 bill in his face stating the money is his if he moves out today, signs an agreement surrenduring the apartment giving the key back. He was immediately on the phone with two neighbors accross the street with pickup trucks and yes he was out the same day, signed the agreement with keys returned and then I gave him the cash.

    For you, you could project the cost per day in rents not received multiplied by the amount of days he will be there with the court date & Sherriff serving the eviction and offer the tenant a percentage of that cash in his face and see if he takes the money and runs, freeing up the apartment.

     The threat of "come make me move out" does not sit well with me and I am not going to go down there and get into any kind of altercation. Even if i wave a a few hundred at him i dont think he will leave. 

    Here is some very good advice, I heard it when I got started, ignored it, spent several thousand dollars and lots of headaches to learn it finally. Hopefully you can hear it better than I did.

    This is a BUSINESS it is not personal, he who takes it personally and acts emotionally loses, always. Have an attorney, friend, someone other than you offer them $250-1000 whatever you think an eviction will cost to hand over the keys. They get the cash when you get the property undamaged and they sign off saying they are willingly giving up possession. I imagine you got in this business to make it a real business, to scale up, you can not do that effectively and take every BS thing a tenant does personally. Get your systems in order, get out of the partnerships (if you need other people involved they can be investors, but even that I would try to avoid.)

    I just tell the tenants this "listen, you will lose so either you can have the money or the attorney can, your choice." DO NOT go over there without witnesses. Check the ego (that was my biggest issue) and run this like someone hired you to manage their business...which means you have to be professional even when others are not. Good luck !

     Thank you sir for the sound advice!

    In the day and age, video/recording is a must for everything. Videos plus witness equals keep your butt out of a sling. 

    1Reply
  • Richard Sherman
    Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    Sure thing!  I even got mad FOR you when I read that...but take a breath and move on.  Keep getting that ball down the field and don't get distracted.  Sounds like you have the eviction proceeding, spend the time thinking about the next deal, what you can tweak etc.  I spent more emotional energy and time on my first 4 units every month than I now do on 65+ units in an entire year and I self-manage!

    0Reply
  • Jim Pfleging
    Investor · Vassalboro, ME · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 4 votes
    7y
    @Justin K. Can’t say much to all this. My sympathies. I would add that tenancy is always a ‘garbage in-garbage out’ excercise but you know that. I always spend an inordinate amount of time on getting good tenants. It’s always stressful to have a vacant unit but having non paying squatters is way worse. For InherIted tenants I tend to have a rule that the sellers must evIct durIng escrow unless Its a specIal case. When they refuse then you know you dodged a bullet!! Start fresh. Good luck and take no prIsoners!!
    0Reply
  • Brandon L.
    Real Estate Agent · Falls Church · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Sauter:
    @Justin Klepfer

    Hey Justin,

    I’m a TX Real Estate Agent. I had a career as a Paralegal before getting into RE.

    Instead of “getting playful in the dark”, hire a Private Detective. They are your best friend in this situation. For your purposes, they’d probably need around $500 retainer.

    Have them follow the tenants. Find out where they work. Forward your eviction & conversations to their employer. Get them fired & have the satification of two-fold revenge: evicted & fired lol

    *Im not an attorney and this not legal advice*

     This is why getting advice in a forum is a bad idea

    2Reply
  • Timothy Thulin
    Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Consider this a gain for you. You have just had some of the best training possible and will be much more profitable in the future because of that experience.

         I know this sounds Pollyanna, but hang in there. 

    0Reply
  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Sauter:
    @Justin Klepfer

    Hey Justin,

    I’m a TX Real Estate Agent. I had a career as a Paralegal before getting into RE.

    Instead of “getting playful in the dark”, hire a Private Detective. They are your best friend in this situation. For your purposes, they’d probably need around $500 retainer.

    Have them follow the tenants. Find out where they work. Forward your eviction & conversations to their employer. Get them fired & have the satification of two-fold revenge: evicted & fired lol

    *Im not an attorney and this not legal advice*

     That is a great way to finally get possession and find cement in your toilets and drains as well !

    No need to get “even” at this point as the objective is to get them out and protect your investment 

    3Reply
  • Bart H.
    Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 745 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Justin K.:
    Originally posted by @Blair Poelman:

    @Justin K.

    This is terrifying:  "make me...", and "Get playful in the dark".  Who is this guy, Buffalo Bill?  

    Anybody brazen (and stupid) enough to send something like that in writing is obviously a few cans short of a sixer.  Unfortunately the guy can do a lot of damage to a property, really in no time at all.

    If this were my problem I would be on point at the location with a private security service as well as local PD, camera in hand and rolling the entire time.  

    Good luck with this one, dude.  Be careful, I've seen stuff like this get extremely ugly, on several levels.  Be safe out there, people are crazy.

    The tenant is the one that said, "make me." I'm the one who wanted to get "playful in the dark" but as I expressed earlier, my common sense kicked in. Local PD will not handle it as they said this is a civil matter and not in their scope of work. 

    I do plan on showing up with a sheriff or some kind of law enforcement when that day does come. If things get sporty, I know how to protect myself and more likely I will come more prepared than the law enforcement. 

    ETA- And since this is Texas, I like to think I'm more like William B. Travis. Buffalo Bill was a cool dude no doubt but Travis was the man! 

     Remember what happened to Travis, he was one of the first ones killed at the Alamo...…

    0Reply
  • Dustin WoodleyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Prattville · Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 40 votes
    7y
    @Justin K. You could if you use it to protect your self and record all contact with tenants??? Same as company's putting them on company cars to protect them.
    [email protected]334-549-6570
    0Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y

    Update!

    Tenants are gone and out of my property. I already have a crew down cleaning it up and by the end of the week will be put back on the market.

    I personally want to thank each and every one of y'all who sent me PMs and gave me advice through this cluster of a time. This has been a huge learning experience and one I think has set me up for success for the future. Financial independence here I come!!!!

    2Reply
  • Jerel Ehlert
    Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 888 posts · 759 votes
    7y

    Texas evictions are pretty straight forward.  You don't need to be an attorney to represent someone else in JP or appeal to County Court (as of Jan 1, 2018).  LL's rights will be according to the written lease, then by Tex Property Code.  Chpt 91 and Chpt 92. No, hiring a lawyer doesn't get you any special treatment by the court or clerks or law enforcement (and if it does, that's several violations of law). We may be more efficient because we know the law and able to argue your case more clearly. Those that do LL-T law as the bulk of their practice work on volume and those that do other areas (of RE law) will be more expensive.  I encourage clients to hire eviction services for routine cases and I take the more complex ones.

    Point of order: If you go to the property geared up for war, that's your ***.  The DA will prosecute faster than a politician goes after campaign contributions.  If you suspect criminal activity, call the cops.  If you attempt to get Tenants fired from their jobs, you open yourself to civil suits.  If Ts trash your rental property by stripping copper or putting cement in the toilet, file a criminal complaint and file an insurance claim.  - These are your remedies.  Self-help will only get the LL in trouble.

    I'm only licensed in Texas, and do not speak on any other state's laws.

    2Reply
  • Justin K.
    OP
    East Texas · Member since 2018 · 205 posts · 138 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerel Ehlert:

    Texas evictions are pretty straight forward.  You don't need to be an attorney to represent someone else in JP or appeal to County Court (as of Jan 1, 2018).  LL's rights will be according to the written lease, then by Tex Property Code.  Chpt 91 and Chpt 92. No, hiring a lawyer doesn't get you any special treatment by the court or clerks or law enforcement (and if it does, that's several violations of law). We may be more efficient because we know the law and able to argue your case more clearly. Those that do LL-T law as the bulk of their practice work on volume and those that do other areas (of RE law) will be more expensive.  I encourage clients to hire eviction services for routine cases and I take the more complex ones.

    Point of order: If you go to the property geared up for war, that's your ***.  The DA will prosecute faster than a politician goes after campaign contributions.  If you suspect criminal activity, call the cops.  If you attempt to get Tenants fired from their jobs, you open yourself to civil suits.  If Ts trash your rental property by stripping copper or putting cement in the toilet, file a criminal complaint and file an insurance claim.  - These are your remedies.  Self-help will only get the LL in trouble.

    I'm only licensed in Texas, and do not speak on any other state's laws.

     Thank you for your insight! 

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    @Justin K. "I would like to hear your creativity stories if you have any."

    Sorry to respond so late.

    Creativity wise we simply harass the s**t out of them making their lives so miserable they want to move. Inspections, warning letters, eviction notices etc. It usually works on your average a-hole tenant but is slow.

    For your professional tenant, particularly your drug users etc., we have a small group of landlords that call upon each other and we arrange a late night visit to have a "conversation" with the tenant. The landlord that owes the property is not in attendance.

    Regrettably with evictions taking 4-6 months in a extremely pro tenant environment where even the most obvious case is at best a 50/50 chance of eviction we have few options.

    0Reply
  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    7y

    @Justin K. , I would also evict the tenants who WERE on the lease and sublet the property. Assuming this is a violation of your lease. You don't want those people in your property, either.

    [email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
    BiggerPockets
    0Reply
  • Jeremiah Mon
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 36 votes
    7y
    @Justin K. A rich dad ones said, “dont partner with anyone tha you can hire.” Get a real estate attorney! Good luck!
    1Reply
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