More discussion on therapy animals...
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
More discussion on therapy animals...
Most Popular Reply
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y"We consider all applications that meet our rental criteria as units are available and as applications are submitted".
This tells them virtually nothing. I don't think you handled it wrong, I just don't like answering hypothetical questions. Unless you have something to rent, and they're filling out an application, there's nothing to talk about.
Skyline Properties
59 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jennifer Hurt:
I just had a prospective tenant apply. He filled out he application and checked no to the question that said do you intend to have at this residence. Then the next question is if so what kind of pet and how many. I ok him for the 1 bedroom apt. 8 hours later I receive a text Hi I just wanted you to know I have an emotional pet with( attach picture of 75 pound pitbull) Since he lied can I deny him? I would deny anyone else caught lying on their application...
By fair housing rules an ESA is not a pet, therefore technically his answer is correct. I would ask him to provide the name, phone number and e-mail of his local medical professional that prescribed the pit bull. He will most likely be caught off guard by the question. He probably has some certificate he downloaded from the internet that he is going to try to pass off on you. Explain to him that internet certificates are not legitimate, that only someone seeing him for a medical condition can prescribe an ESA. (Just like prescription pills, the ones you buy online are illegal, sorry!) He will likely refuse to give you a name or say he will give it to you tomorrow.
If he does provide the name of a doctor, send them a request asking if they have previously treated the applicant and if they prescribed a pit bull to treat a medical condition. Make the doctor, nurse, counselor, etc, sign a document stating that they are treating the applicant and that a 75 pound pit bull is required.
PM me if you want to chat more about it.
- Investor · Pleasant Plains, IL · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 5 votes7y
"I follow The Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973" Would you like to me to email an application?"
Totally covers you and then if you don't want the two pit bulls, find another legitimate reason to deny. I wouldn't get into the weeds with asking too many questions over the phone. You don't owe a totally random phone call any more than that.
- Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes7y
@Anthony Wick I posted on this topic weeks ago and its mixed topic nationally. One thing I can tell you is that it is a federal issue and you cannot win that one. I think you did great as they didn't have paperwork. In Oregon, I think if they ask if you take them you have to say yes regardless of the type of animal. But, I noticed many people stating opposing views in my thread. I just called my local city source yesterday to chat about this. Trust me, its a loaded issue!
- 7yRyan MurdockPro MemberRental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Jennifer Hurt:
I just had a prospective tenant apply. He filled out he application and checked no to the question that said do you intend to have at this residence. Then the next question is if so what kind of pet and how many. I ok him for the 1 bedroom apt. 8 hours later I receive a text Hi I just wanted you to know I have an emotional pet with( attach picture of 75 pound pitbull) Since he lied can I deny him? I would deny anyone else caught lying on their application...
By fair housing rules an ESA is not a pet, therefore technically his answer is correct. I would ask him to provide the name, phone number and e-mail of his local medical professional that prescribed the pit bull. He will most likely be caught off guard by the question. He probably has some certificate he downloaded from the internet that he is going to try to pass off on you. Explain to him that internet certificates are not legitimate, that only someone seeing him for a medical condition can prescribe an ESA. (Just like prescription pills, the ones you buy online are illegal, sorry!) He will likely refuse to give you a name or say he will give it to you tomorrow.
If he does provide the name of a doctor, send them a request asking if they have previously treated the applicant and if they prescribed a pit bull to treat a medical condition. Make the doctor, nurse, counselor, etc, sign a document stating that they are treating the applicant and that a 75 pound pit bull is required.
PM me if you want to chat more about it.
Joe many of the internet site ESA documents are legal. Complete BS.....but legal as they are usually issued by licensed professionals. A legal ESA cert can be issued with nothing more than a completed online questionnaire. No face-to-face exam or even a phone call.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Ryan Murdock:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Jennifer Hurt:
I just had a prospective tenant apply. He filled out he application and checked no to the question that said do you intend to have at this residence. Then the next question is if so what kind of pet and how many. I ok him for the 1 bedroom apt. 8 hours later I receive a text Hi I just wanted you to know I have an emotional pet with( attach picture of 75 pound pitbull) Since he lied can I deny him? I would deny anyone else caught lying on their application...
By fair housing rules an ESA is not a pet, therefore technically his answer is correct. I would ask him to provide the name, phone number and e-mail of his local medical professional that prescribed the pit bull. He will most likely be caught off guard by the question. He probably has some certificate he downloaded from the internet that he is going to try to pass off on you. Explain to him that internet certificates are not legitimate, that only someone seeing him for a medical condition can prescribe an ESA. (Just like prescription pills, the ones you buy online are illegal, sorry!) He will likely refuse to give you a name or say he will give it to you tomorrow.
If he does provide the name of a doctor, send them a request asking if they have previously treated the applicant and if they prescribed a pit bull to treat a medical condition. Make the doctor, nurse, counselor, etc, sign a document stating that they are treating the applicant and that a 75 pound pit bull is required.
PM me if you want to chat more about it.
Joe many of the internet site ESA documents are legal. Complete BS.....but legal as they are usually issued by licensed professionals. A legal ESA cert can be issued with nothing more than a completed online questionnaire. No face-to-face exam or even a phone call.
My approach came from fair housing training that was hosted by my city government two years ago. The fair housing representative managed apartments for 20 years and now teaches fair housing for the government. His suggestion was requesting the contact information for the medical professional offering treatment and sending a form directly to that individual. This eliminates purchased and fabricated certificates, without violating an individuals rights - any legitimate case will pass this screening no problem. You can only ask two questions are you treating them and is this animal required for treatment.
If you reject an online purchased certificate, it would be very easy to dispute validity in court. Filling out an online form is hardly treatment for a medical condition, by reasonable standards. That is like saying I could get a prescription for pain killers filling out a form online and it would be legitimate. You could subpoena the medical professional to testify. That leads to the following questions:
1. Would the online medical professional show up or even respond to the subpoena?
2. Could that professional provide sufficient proof of credentials?
3. How many certificates has that professional issues and how do they defend their method. Example, they issue 1000 certificates per month and never have any contact with an individual. You could easily argue their "treatment" is a rubber stamp and worthless.
Like anything, legality tests occur in court. It will depend on the arguments presented and the judge who hears the case.
Bottom line is someone needs to pursue the landlord in court. It will require a local housing authority or some pro bono attorney to pick up the case. That would require a tenant to file a complaint or seek out council. If you add up all the things that need to happen for this to go wrong for a landlord, it becomes very unlikely anything will happen.
It is also important to consider location. Arguably in liberal areas a landlord could receive harsher treatment if it went to court.
Thankfully in my state we had legislative clarification passed last year, which specifically states online certificates are illegal. Even states where there is no law, for lack of case law clarifying, I see no reason to accept these fake certificates. But every landlord must do what they feel comfortable with.
- 7yRyan MurdockPro MemberRental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Joe Splitrock Great post.
I would love for someone to take on the validity of online ESA certs in court but I don't want to be the guy that does it. My pockets aren't nearly deep enough.
I've already defended myself at hearings where the tenant was represented by pro bono attorneys / fair housing groups and, at least in my area, they have seemingly unlimited funds to pursue this stuff.
I know of two other landlords just in my small town who have also had to defend themselves against similar discrimination attacks where the tenant/applicant had free legal counsel. Each one was settled so the proceedings were short but it still cost each landlord in excess of $5k in legal fees alone. I can't imagine what the bill would total if you actually went to war with these idiots.
As it stands now here we have to allow online certs that are issued by medical professionals who are licensed in my state even if they aren't based here. A quick google search will find you a number of options that qualify. For an extra fee they will also complete any additional paperwork you send them - landlord and/or airline specific forms etc.
Until someone else slays this giant I will do everything I can to avoid it altogether.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
@Ryan Murdock you definitely have a less friendly landlord climate than I do, so I agree the risk is probably not worth it. Fighting things on principal isn't generally good business, but I am sure with a Go Fund Me that we could help out a landlord in need, if the situation came up.
Last eviction I had, the judge asked the tenant why she didn't pay rent. She said she didn't have money because she needed to pay her car insurance. He said to her, "It is better to drive without insurance and pay your rent, I guess you can sleep in your car." Based on my experiences here, I am willing to take my chances, but at the same time I know when it is time to quit.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Powell:
@Anthony Wick I posted on this topic weeks ago and its mixed topic nationally. One thing I can tell you is that it is a federal issue and you cannot win that one. I think you did great as they didn't have paperwork. In Oregon, I think if they ask if you take them you have to say yes regardless of the type of animal. But, I noticed many people stating opposing views in my thread. I just called my local city source yesterday to chat about this. Trust me, its a loaded issue!
Oregon is pretty clear on the topic. You must accept ESAs you can not ask about disability nor can you charge pet rent or pet deposit.
https://www.acornpm.net/2016/11/16/assistance-animals-best-practices-landlords-2/
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.