Section 8 - can the tenant run a business from the house?
Sarah HumbargarPro Member
Realtor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 28 posts · 14 votesSection 8 - can the tenant run a business from the house?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7yOriginally posted by @Mary M.:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Sarah Humbargar:
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
Just one more example of what's wrong with government welfare.
Actually, this is an example of someone taking advantage of the system..... not the system failing. There are MANY people that would be homeless without section 8 including manymany many elderly people and those that have issues that preclude making enough $$ to survive.
You should work for the government for a while. I did and it was no surprise to see the majority of welfare recipients were able-bodied, not elderly or disabled. It was also clear that a large percentage of them were working and not reporting income. Others walked in the door and asked for benefits the day they arrived from another state without any attempt to support themselves first. I've had dozens of Section 8 tenants and all if them were so gle mother's capable of working, except for one. The one that was actually disabled? She was a retired Doctor in her 70s with severe neck problems that prevented her from lifting her head enough to look someone in the face, yet she received only $225 in support. Meanwhile, a single mother of three was in perfect health yet she received $1025 in support, paid only $25 to live in a nicer place than any of her working peers, and ended up pregnant before it was discovered she had been earning money under the table for years while collecting Section 8.
I can give you dozens of examples like this that I witnessed first-hand.
Our local churches have an assistance fund. They don't support a 28-year-old single mother for four years when she is fully capable of holding a job. They don't have her fill out forms and receive benefits without checking her story. They don't hand over a check without also offering advice, support, and real concern. They provide assistance and then expect the person to put in the effort. Government welfare, particularly at the Federal level, is an impersonal machine that encourages fraud, waste, and abuse.
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12 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes7y
The HAP (Housing Assistance Payment) contract is essentially a contract between the landlord and the Housing Authority. It covers only the basics, like the property address of the unit, who will be residing in the unit, the initial lease term, and the housing assistant payment amount. The rules of the tenancy (like whether or not the tenant is permitted to operate a business from the property) are governed by the lease agreement between the landlord and the tenant, so you'll want to get a copy of that.
If the seller is saying no written lease exists (unlikely since the Housing Authority would have requested one), you should request an estoppel certificate to verify the terms of the tenancy between landlord and the tenant.
- 7yPatti RobertsonBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Sarah Humbargar - Your lease and the local zoning restrictions will dictate if a business can be run out of the house. My lease prohibits it. If the Seller cannot find their copy of the lease, the housing authority will provide you with a copy of the lease the landlord submitted to them.
- 7yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Yes there should be a separate lease. This should address not being able to run a business out of your residential property.
I have seen where several section 8 tenants had cash jobs on the side that the section 8 office did not know about. I'm sure this extra income would change their section 8 status even if it only made them pay a higher share of their rent.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes7y
@Sarah Humbargar I will jump on board with the others. There should be a separate lease agreement. In the few Section 8 cases I have, the lease between Tenant - Landlord must be signed and turned in to HAP as part of the Section 8 application process.
My lease does not allow tenants to operate a business in their home. No daycare, no massage therapists, no counseling offices, etc.
It also raises my hackles when a Section 8 Tenant has a "side hustle" because - in my experience - it's very common for them to work a private business or get paid under the table and not report that income to HAP, which means they are living on the public dole for no reason. Fraud is rampant with Section 8, as with most social services. I would check with HAP and verify this tenant is reporting all their income from the business.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Realtor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 28 posts · 14 votes7y
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Sarah Humbargar:
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
Just one more example of what's wrong with government welfare.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Sarah Humbargar:
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
Just one more example of what's wrong with government welfare.
Actually, this is an example of someone taking advantage of the system..... not the system failing. There are MANY people that would be homeless without section 8 including manymany many elderly people and those that have issues that preclude making enough $$ to survive.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Sarah Humbargar:
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
Just one more example of what's wrong with government welfare.
Actually, this is an example of someone taking advantage of the system..... not the system failing. There are MANY people that would be homeless without section 8 including manymany many elderly people and those that have issues that preclude making enough $$ to survive.
You should work for the government for a while. I did and it was no surprise to see the majority of welfare recipients were able-bodied, not elderly or disabled. It was also clear that a large percentage of them were working and not reporting income. Others walked in the door and asked for benefits the day they arrived from another state without any attempt to support themselves first. I've had dozens of Section 8 tenants and all if them were so gle mother's capable of working, except for one. The one that was actually disabled? She was a retired Doctor in her 70s with severe neck problems that prevented her from lifting her head enough to look someone in the face, yet she received only $225 in support. Meanwhile, a single mother of three was in perfect health yet she received $1025 in support, paid only $25 to live in a nicer place than any of her working peers, and ended up pregnant before it was discovered she had been earning money under the table for years while collecting Section 8.
I can give you dozens of examples like this that I witnessed first-hand.
Our local churches have an assistance fund. They don't support a 28-year-old single mother for four years when she is fully capable of holding a job. They don't have her fill out forms and receive benefits without checking her story. They don't hand over a check without also offering advice, support, and real concern. They provide assistance and then expect the person to put in the effort. Government welfare, particularly at the Federal level, is an impersonal machine that encourages fraud, waste, and abuse.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Sarah Humbargar:
Thanks all, this is super helpful. I assumed there should be a lease, the HAP contract seemed overly simple. The seller provided me with a lease extension, but not a complete lease agreement so I need to get my hands on that. @Nathan Gesner you hit the nail on the head... I didn't realize until the inspection that the tenant is operating a massage business out of the second bedroom of the house and is only paying $125 a month in rent...just seem's off. I'm all about preserving affordable units, but not at all about supporting under the table work and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Thanks everyone for the input!
Just one more example of what's wrong with government welfare.
Actually, this is an example of someone taking advantage of the system..... not the system failing. There are MANY people that would be homeless without section 8 including manymany many elderly people and those that have issues that preclude making enough $$ to survive.
You should work for the government for a while. I did and it was no surprise to see the majority of welfare recipients were able-bodied, not elderly or disabled. It was also clear that a large percentage of them were working and not reporting income. Others walked in the door and asked for benefits the day they arrived from another state without any attempt to support themselves first. I've had dozens of Section 8 tenants and all if them were so gle mother's capable of working, except for one. The one that was actually disabled? She was a retired Doctor in her 70s with severe neck problems that prevented her from lifting her head enough to look someone in the face, yet she received only $225 in support. Meanwhile, a single mother of three was in perfect health yet she received $1025 in support, paid only $25 to live in a nicer place than any of her working peers, and ended up pregnant before it was discovered she had been earning money under the table for years while collecting Section 8.
I can give you dozens of examples like this that I witnessed first-hand.
Our local churches have an assistance fund. They don't support a 28-year-old single mother for four years when she is fully capable of holding a job. They don't have her fill out forms and receive benefits without checking her story. They don't hand over a check without also offering advice, support, and real concern. They provide assistance and then expect the person to put in the effort. Government welfare, particularly at the Federal level, is an impersonal machine that encourages fraud, waste, and abuse.
It is with regret that I can only upvote this post once ! Nathan is spot on . The welfare system like most every government agency is corrupt and full of fraud at every turn . Some people live in a self made utopian fantasy that all people on these assistance programs are destitute and unable to work . In my experience most getting section 8 ssi and food stamps are lazy able bodied people wanting a handout not a hand up ! I’m sure some need it but don’t think for a second they are giving up their cigarettes booze or the lottery tickets ! Tired of my tax dollars going to welfarites with 8 kids they can’t feed
- China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
@Sarah Humbargar An estoppel certificate is absolutely essential. You need this to extinguish any future claims regarding terms of the lease, names of occupants and deposits held.
If your tenant is already scamming HAP, it's not a huge stretch to think that she'll try to falsely claim that you're holding an extra month's rent.
You also need a copy of that current lease attached to the estoppel.
I would refuse to close until both are in hand.
- Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 1 vote2y
To receive a sec 8 subsidy fro HUD. To pay that subsidy the housing authority would have to verify that you do accept sec 8 and if you do then the 70% that HUD pays would be paid to you and the lease holder would pay 30%.Believe me when I say this. The housing authority would never grant a HCV which is the name of sec 8. Call the police NOW!!!
- Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 1 vote2y
Again!!! First. Under sec 8 guidelines the housing authority would have to show that you do accept sec 8. Then they would do an inspection to certify the home is clean,. Everything has to be up to code. This is a 3 week process. You need to show banking info to show where HUD is to send the subsidy payments. Most importantly the AMR, average median rent depends on the subsidy dollar. If the rent amount does not fit within HUDs allowable amount then it's a no deal. All of this must happen before move in. If all you are saying is correct then you have a major con artist or a sqatter is in your house. Call the police!!!
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