Are you prepared to do what it takes to SURVIVE this business? • Are you REALLY prepared to make those tough calls? • Can you push emotion to the side for the betterment of your business? • Are you willing to do EVERYTHING in your power to succeed as a Real Estate Investor? This is what my team did in Cleveland today. Are you willing to do everything above EVEN if it's on Christmas? I am sure it'll be a mixed bag of opinions on this topic. Drop your comments below. I would love to get the perspective of Investors on both sides of the isle on this one.

"Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life." -Jerzey Gregorek This applies to both residents and owners.

You know me by now Jim resounding NO.. I would have left a gift basket and a Christmas card.. And told them catch up when you can

I got out of the D class rentals after I had to explain to a kid that I now owned their house and he was translating it to his mom... so no, I don't have what it takes

Jay, there are only a handful of us on the site old enough to not have to ask Alexa who that is.

@Mary Mitchell If you haven't read "Evicted" it really is worth the read. I operate "affordable housing" (not subsidized) based on the median income in my area. For a number of my apartments, a full time minimum wage job would provide sufficient income to qualify. But the tenants described in the book, Evicted, were not tenants that would qualify for my apartments based on either income or eviction history. For some of the tenants described, that were able hold a job, a helping hand with initial deposits, a couple of months rent, and child care MIGHT have been enough to get them back on their feet. BUT I get calls from churches and halfway houses all the time trying to place tenants on disability with very, very low incomes and I tell them 'no' because I want tenants that can be successful. For the people getting what my tenants call a "crazy" check (from SSDI), they probably are going to have a difficult time as a tenant. Because of their disorders, they can't hold a job, they often can't get along with their neighbors or roommates , they don't have enough money to manage on their own, and they are lucky if their payee isn't stealing from them. If they have anti-social disorder, especially if they have committed sex-offences no one wants them, and they might have other felonies as well. The non-crazy SSDI recipients fare better; they can get along with a room-mate and since they are more sympathetic, they'll probably have better luck finding subsidized housing. We, as a society need to look at how we treat people that cannot provide for themselves, especially the unsympathic cases-- or we'll all have to deal with the fall out. I don't know the answer (but they probably don't qualify to rent from me). .

@James Wise By the time I file for eviction...i can't wait to get the tenant out... That tenant has been completely unwilling to be reasonable usually over a period of weeks or months. So if it the baliff is scheduled the week before Christmas so be it. I would know that the tenant ignored many opportunities to work with me before it came to a red tag and they chose not to. If some random person on the internet or street who knows nothing about the situation thinks I'm a meanie, too bad.

I really have to say something mainly because this is one of the saddest threads I have read so close to Christmas. I practice Landlording very differently that a lot of people would suggest, especially on this thread. First, I buy properties in desirable neighborhoods for several reasons, but, in regards to the main theme here, it is because I have a choice of the quality of tenants I would like to deal with. In other words, if you invested in C/D neighborhoods, you better expect to do evictions because there is no point on doing a Credit Check as the high credit good income tenant will be incredibly elusive. In my neighborhoods where I invest, 700 FICO would be the LOWEST acceptable credit score and you HAVE to make at least 40 times income. Once someone becomes a tenant and I have verified all of their information, accepted guarantors, etc. They become part of a family. IF hard times fall, I help them out because I know that once you get past my tenant screening process.... you are a good and responsible person and the only way you can fall may be some emotional or economical situation which is beyond your control for now. For instance, there were a number of tenants that JUST graduated from a close by Art and Architectural school, had been working for a few years, but suddenly lost their jobs during the financial crisis. I didn't threaten to evict them or anything like that. I knew it was going to be rough for Art graduates to get a job in their field when in an economic crisis. BUT they are good people, in my case, and what I do is help them to survive until things got better. There was no need for me to lower the rents, but in some cases I did. Some cases I ask them to add a third roommate and that I would do the advertising for them, some cases I did both lower rents and asked them to take on a third roommate. I lost money at the time, but I did not lose my soul. Years after the crisis, the majority of these tenants are doing well. They in turn send me referrals and I have found further good tenants from them, even without having to do an ad. The most prominent event that happened in my landlording career was during one snowy morning, I was going to shovel the snow. One of my tenants slipped off the stoop with her Mom before I could shovel. They both laughed it off and the tenant told her Mom in front of her, this is the best Landlord she has had and everything was ok! If the tenant hated my guts, she would have found some way to sue me. I know it's not the way every single RE School would teach, but I and my Partners are multi-millionaire Real Estate Investors and this is how we practice Landlording. The kind of Landlording you do is a choice and you choose it when you decide to buy a certain kind of property. I chose to feel good about being a Landlord and helping tenants who are good people. I do understand those that have made the choice to buy properties where they cannot help but to evict, even during Christmas, but that is NOT my choice when I bought my buildings. AND, BTW, don't call me a bleeding heart... the reality is that this is about business. If you feel good about your business, you will do better business. If your clients (the tenants) feel good about doing business with you, then you will get referral business. So, yes, it's about business, but in a very good way.

I have to wonder if perhaps @Mary Mitchell really means running a business in while respecting personal values like kindness, generosity, compassion, empathy rather than running a business with emotions? Like @Jim K. , I feel like you are not doing anyone any favors if you enable self destructive behavior. Each of us has to decide how to balance our own personal values. If you hire a financial advisor or a property manager do you want them to prioritize the value of wealth? if so when, over compassion? integrity? honesty? I feel like It's a constant balancing act. In my actions, I find that I value financial security more wealth because on a daily basis I make choices that do not optimize wealth building, I'll buy that cold coke when I'm thirsty even if I'm just 30 minutes from my house (my frugal husband won't). I don't try to eek every last dime out of my tenants, I'm making decent money, I'll chalk those broken mini-blinds up to normal wear-and-tear. I might even forgive a debt on occasion for a good tenant that is going through a personal struggle though I'll never donate to the united way. However, If I hired a property manager like @James Wise or a wealth advisor, I don't think I'd want him/her to make those calls for me. They need to do what our agreement calls for. @Dennis M. and @Thomas S. you both frequently espouse the primacy of the value of wealth building over kindness, generosity, and compassion in your businesses (and take a pretty good bit of sh*t for it). However, I don't think it's really reasonable or fair (and I do value reasonableness and fairness) for people to hire a management company because they are "too compassionate" to do an eviction and then claim that they are morally superior to you "mean, old, money grubbing landlords".

Are you prepared to do what it take SURVIVE this business?

General Landlording & Rental Properties

7yFollow

Are you prepared to do what it take SURVIVE this business?

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Are you prepared to do what it takes to SURVIVE this business?

Are you REALLY prepared to make those tough calls?
Can you push emotion to the side for the betterment of your business?
Are you willing to do EVERYTHING in your power to succeed as a Real Estate Investor?

This is what my team did in Cleveland today. Are you willing to do everything above EVEN if it's on Christmas?

I am sure it'll be a mixed bag of opinions on this topic. Drop your comments below. I would love to get the perspective of Investors on both sides of the isle on this one.

13 Reply

166 views

Most Popular Reply

Jim K.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

I would post that notice on Christmas Eve or Day. I would post that notice while they were at the hospital for the birth of a child. I would post that notice on the day I knew a child services social worker was going to visit. I would post that notice if the tenant and all their children were lined up next to that door, begging and pleading for just one more day of leniency. To do otherwise is to misunderstand the nature of eviction.

By the time I get to eviction the tenant's self-destructive behavior has put her or him well past the value of any help I could offer. That notice means I've made a judgment that the tenant needs to hit rock bottom to get better. A judgment that I am prepared to be condemned to hell for if I am wrong.

Standing between someone and the rock bottom they need to hit is not an act of charity or mercy. I learned that the hard way many years ago.

So I agree with you, Jim, but I should add that I do not believe I have ever posted an eviction notice as an act of pushing aside my emotions, or for the betterment of my business, or in order to succeed as a real estate investor.

41 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

234 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
You know me by now Jim resounding NO.. I would have left a gift basket and a Christmas card.. And told them catch up when you can
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
27 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
I got out of the D class rentals after I had to explain to a kid that I now owned their house and he was translating it to his mom... so no, I don't have what it takes
26 Reply
Phil Dodd
Real Estate Agent · Keller, TX · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 40 votes
7y
I don't have the stomach for C/D tenants, but you have to look past your emotions. Good Luck!
3 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
I would post that notice on Christmas Eve or Day. I would post that notice while they were at the hospital for the birth of a child. I would post that notice on the day I knew a child services social worker was going to visit. I would post that notice if the tenant and all their children were lined up next to that door, begging and pleading for just one more day of leniency. To do otherwise is to misunderstand the nature of eviction.
By the time I get to eviction the tenant's self-destructive behavior has put her or him well past the value of any help I could offer. That notice means I've made a judgment that the tenant needs to hit rock bottom to get better. A judgment that I am prepared to be condemned to hell for if I am wrong.
Standing between someone and the rock bottom they need to hit is not an act of charity or mercy. I learned that the hard way many years ago.
So I agree with you, Jim, but I should add that I do not believe I have ever posted an eviction notice as an act of pushing aside my emotions, or for the betterment of my business, or in order to succeed as a real estate investor.
41 Reply
Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
"Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life."
-Jerzey Gregorek
This applies to both residents and owners.
27 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

"Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life."
-Jerzey Gregorek
This applies to both residents and owners.
EF Hutton has spoken :) happy holidays Mike !!
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Jay, there are only a handful of us on the site old enough to not have to ask Alexa who that is.
20 Reply
Kevin Dong
Flipper · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2017 · 182 posts · 98 votes
7y
absolutely. I have what it takes. Slide your emotion aside. Treat it like a business. At least I am trying after learning hard way
3 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jason Hirko:
I got out of the D class rentals after I had to explain to a kid that I now owned their house and he was translating it to his mom... so no, I don't have what it takes
That's great to hear. You gave something a go & realized early on that it wasn't a fit for you & (I assume) you moved on to something that better fits your psyche. Well done.
It's those that stay in a job or business that isn't the right fit for them that we need to worry about.
What'd you move into?
1 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Phil Dodd:

I don't have the stomach for C/D tenants, but you have to look past your emotions. Good Luck!
Did you come to that conclusion after being in the space or did you know right from the jump that it wasn't the business for you?
0 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Commercial development!!! Triple net tenants and I've never been happier! LOL
5 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
I would have superimposed it over the present Santa is holding. Perfect size.
3 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jason Hirko:

Commercial development!!! Triple net tenants and I've never been happier! LOL
Lol. Yup, two aspects of the rental business that couldn't be further apart from one another.
1 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

I would have superimposed it over the present Santa is holding. Perfect size.
🤣 Now that'd just be cruel.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

Jay, there are only a handful of us on the site old enough to not have to ask Alexa who that is.
OK that cracked me up.. I was thinking also Joe Friday just the facts !!
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
3 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@James Wise
By the time I file for eviction...i can't wait to get the tenant out... That tenant has been completely unwilling to be reasonable usually over a period of weeks or months. So if it the baliff is scheduled the week before Christmas so be it. I would know that the tenant ignored many opportunities to work with me before it came to a red tag and they chose not to. If some random person on the internet or street who knows nothing about the situation thinks I'm a meanie, too bad.
10 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Where in heaven did the idea come from that to suceed in business you need to have no emotions? I have never heard that til this board.
I think people peddle this idea as it allows them to feel better about whatever actions they are taking.
As for evicting on christmas - well i suppose it depends. I am the type of business person that likes to cut my losses quickly and move on. However, i would not evict a dying tenant. I also would not evict a tenant in a newly purchased bldg before xmas.
I also dont own own C-/D properties. I could not even read the book “Evicted” (which folks who own lower end properties should read) i dont have the stomach for it.
5 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Btw @James Wise did you put that up, or did someone else?
0 Reply
Steve K.
Honolulu, HI · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 315 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:
Jay, there are only a handful of us on the site old enough to not have to ask Alexa who that is.
OK that cracked me up.. I was thinking also Joe Friday just the facts !!
they gonna have to ask siri who "Joe Friday" is now
2 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
All the bleeding hearts out there need to realize this is not a charity it’s a business and you can be sure The bank would tape up that notice on your door for a sheriffs sale if you didn’t pay your mortgage for that rental house !
15 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Mary M. If you haven't read "Evicted" it really is worth the read. I operate "affordable housing" (not subsidized) based on the median income in my area.
For a number of my apartments, a full time minimum wage job would provide sufficient income to qualify.
But the tenants described in the book, Evicted, were not tenants that would qualify for my apartments based on either income or eviction history.
For some of the tenants described, that were able hold a job, a helping hand with initial deposits, a couple of months rent, and child care MIGHT have been enough to get them back on their feet. BUT
I get calls from churches and halfway houses all the time trying to place tenants on disability with very, very low incomes and I tell them 'no' because I want tenants that can be successful. For the people getting what my tenants call a "crazy" check (from SSDI), they probably are going to have a difficult time as a tenant.
Because of their disorders, they can't hold a job, they often can't get along with their neighbors or roommates , they don't have enough money to manage on their own, and they are lucky if their payee isn't stealing from them. If they have anti-social disorder, especially if they have committed sex-offences no one wants them, and they might have other felonies as well.
The non-crazy SSDI recipients fare better; they can get along with a room-mate and since they are more sympathetic, they'll probably have better luck finding subsidized housing.
We, as a society need to look at how we treat people that cannot provide for themselves, especially the unsympathic cases-- or we'll all have to deal with the fall out. I don't know the answer (but they probably don't qualify to rent from me).
.
12 Reply
Aaron Hunt
All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes
7y
One year ago today, I had to do the same thing. IDGAF. Tenant paid up in full with all late fees, and vacated with property in turnkey shape after her lease was done. Property is continued to be managed by a PM team.
2 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Yep we foreclosed on a woman after 7 years of paying on time but then she fell on hard times & then she became nasty. (She had married a felon she met on-line while he was incarcerated & that didn't work).
We gained possession right before Xmas. We tried to negotiate through attorney's a cash for keys but she had liens/judgments to the moon so foreclosure was the only way out. She did leave the place spotless plus a new HW tank still in its box in the garage. We did meet the local district attorney the day of possession as they were looking for her & her felonious ex-husband.
I sold it for double the amount she originally paid, but her attitude left me cold & with absolutely no empathy for her.
1 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:

Btw @James Wise did you put that up, or did someone else?
We put that & many others up yesterday just as we do every month without fail or exception.
3 Reply
James Wise
OP
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
All the bleeding hearts out there need to realize this is not a charity it’s a business and you can be sure The bank would tape up that notice on your door for a sheriffs sale if you didn’t pay your mortgage for that rental house !
Well said. Thing about the bleeding hearts is they cry foul right up until it's their money on the line.
I posted this photo on Facebook & have some kid going nuts so I said hey man you can pay the rent of any tenant you like & we won't evict them. Ain't gonna see a dime from him. Lol.
4 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.