Hi BP I'm a new landlord after purchasing my first SFH in September, and my property manager placed a tenant in the house starting November 1. In the 7-8 weeks that the tenant has been there, there hasn't been a single week go by without the tenant requesting more fixes/additions to the house. Usually he makes the requests to the property manager, but on top of that he also texts/calls me at least once a week to complain about something. The house itself is in great condition, and he saw it a few times before he moved in, so I find it a bit ridiculous that he's asking for so many things. He demanded a storm door, a railing installed on the outside stairs (after installing a railing he complained that it's not made of iron and asked me to redo it, but that's where I drew a line), he called a plumber in several times about silly issues that only happened because he consistently overflowed the bathtub, today he became convinced that all the windows in the house need to be replaced. Between these and all the small things he keeps asking, I've lost $1000's already just in a few weeks. And he has a tendency to be aggressive, and he even threatened to not pay rent on his second month because he thought his demands are being ignored. I keep hoping that every time he makes a request and I comply, he'll eventually be happy and stop costing me so much. But after today's windows request, I'm starting to think that he might just be a perpetual complainer and will cost me money every single week as long as he lives in the unit. I'm wondering if someone has any suggestions on what I can do? I don't think I should or even can evict him - that seems too extreme as he's not squatting and he's not destroying the house. Ideally I'd like to ask him something along the lines of "if you're so unhappy with the condition of the house, would you like to break out of the contract and leave at the end of this month or next month, no hard feelings?" but I'm afraid that if I say that he'll get aggressive and attacking and will become an even bigger nightmare because he'll think that now I'm against him. Anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences?

Dealing with a very expensive demanding new tenant

John Thedford

Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes

7y

I think your approach is correct and you should offer him the opportunity to leave the premises without penalty

13 Reply

Theresa HarrisPro Member

Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

7y

I agree that allowing him to get out of the lease is a good option. You are paying a property manager and they should be handling the requests-that's what you are paying them for.

If something is a safety issue (perhaps the railing depending on how many stairs and the total height), then address it. The other issues like over-filling the bathtub are problems as a result of his behaviour and he should be billed for them. Tell the tenant he knew what the house looked like when he signed the lease and it was in great condition. With all of the upgrades he's requesting, the rent would be much higher. I'm not suggesting you do them, but if there is something that you could afford and would add to the long term value of the property, consider it but only AFTER he's been there a year and the lease is renewed at a higher rate.

9 Reply

Dean Attali

OP

Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes

7y

Thanks @Theresa Harris that makes sense - telling him I can do the non-safety related upgrades only after he's been paying rent for a while and at a higher rent.

0 Reply

Michaela G.

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

Yes, send him a letter, allowing him to get out of the lease, because he seems to be very unhappy about anything in the house - not just a text. Even if he doesn't accept it, if this ends in a bad way,, it's a really good thing to be able to give to the judge - eviction or otherwise. I have done that and the judge asked her why she didn't leave, since she did have the offer, if she was so unhappy. Definitely helped my eviction for non-payment of rent.

Also, your PM should handle it and you should consider blocking this tenant. That's what you're paying the pm for and they should have experience dealing with tenants like this.

11 Reply

Dean Attali

OP

Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes

7y

The PM is another issue, they're not the best but they're not actively annoying me, the tenant is my primary problem :)

The letter, as proof for later, is a good idea. Did you talk to them beforehand, or just send the letter without prior "warning"? Did the tenant not react negatively to such a letter? And did you have to prove that the letter was received?

0 Reply

Michaela G.

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Dean Attali:

The PM is another issue, they're not the best but they're not actively annoying me, the tenant is my primary problem :)

The letter, as proof for later, is a good idea. Did you talk to them beforehand, or just send the letter without prior "warning"? Did the tenant not react negatively to such a letter? And did you have to prove that the letter was received?

It's not about your PM annoying you or not - you're paying your PM to handle these situations or does he work free?

Sounds to me as if you're already on not so good terms with this tenant. Why would you talk to him before? You're just giving him an option, which he can accept or shut up. Just write the letter and email it to him as attachment. He'll probably reply, which will be proof that he got it ;-)

3 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Central, FL · Member since 2016 · 950 posts · 821 votes

7y

I’m curious why the tenant has your phone number given you have a property manager? I don’t give anything to my tenants, that’s why a PM exists. You may need a come to Jesus meeting with your PM. Add a clause that they pay for service calls and I agree let him go if he hates the places condition so much.

9 Reply

Dean Attali

OP

Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes

7y

@Michaela G. you're right, PM is getting paid. But I mean he's not my biggest worry at the moment, I can deal with finding a more suitable PM after the bigger issues are cleared :) Funny enough I have about 5 different phone numbers from which the tenant calls me, but I don't have his email. But yes emailing him does sound like the best option. Thanks!

@Account Closed This was my first property, and I thought it would be a nice friendly touch to call the tenant and introduce myself just to make him feel more welcomed. I've definitely learned my lesson from this and will not repeat that mistake in the future. Good lesson to learn!

4 Reply

Stephen Glover

Property Manager · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 204 posts · 297 votes

7y

As a PM, we make sure to develop a relationship with incoming tenants and communicate these things to them. Seems like a very poor job of communicating was done between the PM and the tenant before placing the tenant. We make sure the tenant understands the condition that the rental is in and what they will be liable for, etc. and the lease they sign states that they understand. At the same time, we rent it to them 100% confident that it is in good and safe condition and if we make a mistake then we eat it.

In this situation, I would definitely give the tenant the option to move out in 30 or 60-days penalty free, and if they push back you can even offer a free month or pay for movers. It might be worth it in the long run. THEN, have a talk with your PM about their tenant on boarding process, or find a new one. This is on them with a big communication issue.

Of course, my opinion only.

5 Reply

Dean Attali

OP

Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes

7y

@Stephen Glover - thanks for the input. I haven't thought about this before, that the PM should clarify with the tenant the unit expectations. I'll add this to my list of questions I ask new PMs so that something like this won't happen again. Offering help with moving costs is a nice idea, not sure I'll go as far as doing that, but thanks for the suggestion.

0 Reply

Connie Chan

Investor · Member since 2017 · 239 posts · 149 votes

7y

@Dean Attali your approach makes a lot of sense. See if he wants to get out of the lease. Definitely don’t go down eviction path or anything like that without consulting a lawyer. Not even rent increase. It could be considered retaliatory so you don’t want to do either of those things after a request. For the bathtub overflow issues (where the tenant is at fault), perhaps you can come to an agreement with him that if it is found to be his fault he can pay for the plumber visit? That might cause him to complain less.

2 Reply

Caleb Heimsoth

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

@Dean Attali. Can you give an example of a repair he’s asking for? I would just say no and tell your management company to stop doing it if it’s not actually something that needs

To be fixed.

Why does your tenant have your phone number? That’s a big no no.

3 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

7y

you will work I t out @Caleb Heimsoth being a broker and pretty easy to find.. tenants would get my number.

and of course me being me.. I fell for every sob story.. Finally Dory my secretary tells me to stop talking to tenants.

and let her handle it.. she is no BS collections went up.. and I know would never talk to a tenant if I had one.

I just agree with them to get them off the phone.. LOL.. and for sure I don't answer text's at all absolutely not.

only with a very few in my close circle will I communicate via text.. these texters these days will just abuse the crap out of that. the stair railing probably needed to be done for liability.. but windows NOPE.. sounds like good advice above just let them out. and if they don't want out have PM tell them not to call owner.

But I know other larger owners. IE 100 to 300 homes.. and they are all hands on and deal with tenants directly.. as they come into their offices a lot to pay rent and or make maintenance requests.. really depends on how sophisticated the tenant is.. I mean many don't have checking accounts and have to get money orders.. so best to take those in person and give good receipts for them.

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2 Reply

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

If the tenant thinks the house needs new windows , then buy them , if the tenant wants a granite counter top , ask them what color would they like ? , when they want new landscaping , but , of course you should get on it right away , repaint the house to their taste ? Yes , they live there and should be happy .

Or you could just tell them , NO

A simple word taught to all of us an an early age . No

11 Reply

Robert Biggerstaff

Contractor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2018 · 303 posts · 240 votes

7y

I’m not trying to be a jerk with my response at all. How did they get your phone number if you have a property manager? The second thing is you were learning right now he is getting you trained. The training should take place with the tenant by your property manager for you but not vice versa. If there is anything further that they would request from me if that was my situation I would just look at them and say I’ve got eight other people that are waiting to get in here when can you be out. Be very polite when you say that to them don’t be a jerk but let them know right then and there

4 Reply

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

7y

My guess is if you had placed this tenant yourself, you would've seen the warning signs. It's much more than finding the first person that qualifies. Placing ANY tenant gets your PM the placement fee BTW.

Nitpickers and high maintenance tenants will make your life miserable as you have found.

I always show my places mostly done, but not all the way. Their reaction will tell you what you need to know. Flexible and tolerant will be pleasant. This guy would've blown up.

I allow an extra day or so of application screening to lapse to see how many times they bother me. Patience is a good measure of what will happen over the lease as well.

I'd rather have a vacancy than a nightmare tenant like this. We are most careful with the tenants we place ourselves...

7 Reply

Lee Bell

Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes

7y

No more Mr Nice Guy!

1 Reply

Curtis Mears

Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes

7y

@Dean Attali do you have a paragraph in the lease that says the house was leased as is with no responsibility to add anything? if so, then tell the tenant that you are not adding items because he would like them. unless there is a safety issue, I would deny his requests. also, why are you paying a management company if they are not dealing with a tenant they placed? you need to address this with the company. it is a good idea to offer him to leave as he will always be a problem tenant, especially since you have already set the tone that he needed but ask to get what he wants.

1 Reply

Ayo O.

Rental Property Investor · HOUSTON, TX - Texas · Member since 2017 · 93 posts · 19 votes

7y

@Dean Attali sounded like one of my tenants.They intentionally broke the water heater a day after rent was due and got a $2300 estimate to replace the unit.From my experience, most tenants that make unreasonable demands are usually just looking for an excuse to justify non-payment of rent. I have had enough after just 2 months and I have filed eviction after my initial offer to let them break the lease was not taken.

1 Reply

Jacob Villalobos

Whittier , CA · Member since 2013 · 176 posts · 96 votes

7y

1. Immediately stop all direct communication with tenant directly. You can even send him a text. "I will no longer be responding to request directly. Please state your concern to the property manager." NEVER answer a phone call/text again!!!

2. Have your manager communicate directly in writing. Something the effect. "Great news owner has agreed to allow you out of your lease to find a property that is more suitable. Please let me know when you will be moving out as the owner needs a 30 day notice." Every time tenant wants a repair that is silly, simply tell your manager to say no

3. If he threatens not to pay and does not pay EVICT! Don't put up with a ****** tenant. You may pay money for the eviction but peace of mind is worth it. Find a better tenant.

10 Reply

Quincy Lockett

South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 376 posts · 432 votes

7y

@Dean Attali

Tenants like these DON’T want to leave. They live to complain. Your attempt to give him an out will calm him down, trust me. They’ll have you jump as long as you jump. Believe me, he knows there is no perfect dwelling elsewhere. He also know that the “next” landlord will not be as complicit as you’ve been.

Tenants like his are NOT worth it. Give him the out option. If he doesn’t take it I’d definitely NOT renew his lease when it’s up for renewal.

2 Reply

Matt P.

Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes

7y

@Dean Attali If you have a PM the Tennant should never be contacting you to begin with. Offer to let the Tennant out penalty free to get them gone and find a new PM that can do their job.

1 Reply

Dennis M.

Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes

7y

Your being waaay to submissive on this problem . As others mentioned , why on earth is the guy even calling you ? Correspondence is to be done through the PM . Why are you paying a PM ?why are giving in to this idiot every time he calls you ? Your going to have a very difficult landlording career if you don’t start to grow a backbone . These people will spot a weakness and steam roll right over you ! I’d fire the PM immediately and inform the tenant you’ll be managing now . Inform them you are going to institute a “ happy clause” because it’s apparent they are not happy with the place . If they stay Inform them all correspondence is to be done through email now and only addressed for repairs . You gotta set boundaries here and lay the law down ASAP . Do what Nancy Reagan advised ; “ just say NO”

3 Reply

Caroline C.

Rental Property Investor · Southern California · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 1 vote

7y

I would not introduce the idea of breaking the lease. First of all, it is a gift, or concession to the tenant, which he does not deserve. If he thinks he has the upper hand he will become vicious. Instead, I would make sure the property is 100% compliant with code so there is nothing he can successfully report you for. Have the manager accompany a photographer of your choosing, preferably an investor/landlord who knows what matters and whom you'll owe a beer. Can't have too much documentation.

Second, as you mentioned, he can and will use your offer to let him split as proof that you "just want to get rid of him." If it goes to court, he'll write that on the court documents, and embellish it with your presumed motivation--something egregious. His story will be memorialized in the public record. Your public record.

It's better to wait for him to ask to be released from the lease. If he really does want to move, he'll have no trouble concocting a justification for voiding the lease. If he does not want to move, he would reject your offer to break the lease and as a bonus, see your offer as a sign of weakness. You'd have put your interests at risk and encouraged him to think his boot is on your neck for no reason.

I would make a written effort to manage his expectations. Put in writing the definitions, with examples, of repair, maintenance, and improvement. Let him know what a landlord is responsible for and what a tenant is responsible for. This link goes to the maintenance standards for Ontario's residential tenancy act of 2006.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/060517

It might be all you need, as is, or you might want to put it in your own words. Your manager should send your masterpiece to the tenant, with a brief cover letter, by registered mail.

Meanwhile, you should carefully study this chilling document, "Offences Under the Residential Tenancies Act, 2006" and make sure you don't commit any.

http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page1175.aspx

1 Reply

Sam Shueh

Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

7y

I do not waste my time telling them you are in the rental business and suggest him to start looking elsewhere. Tell him you have had enough that crap.

2 Reply

Dealing with a very expensive demanding new tenant - suggestions?

Dealing with a very expensive demanding new tenant - suggestions?

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