Dealing with a very expensive demanding new tenant - suggestions?

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Dealing with a very expensive demanding new tenant - suggestions?

Dean Attali
Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes

Hi BP

I'm a new landlord after purchasing my first SFH in September, and my property manager placed a tenant in the house starting November 1. In the 7-8 weeks that the tenant has been there, there hasn't been a single week go by without the tenant requesting more fixes/additions to the house. Usually he makes the requests to the property manager, but on top of that he also texts/calls me at least once a week to complain about something.

The house itself is in great condition, and he saw it a few times before he moved in, so I find it a bit ridiculous that he's asking for so many things. He demanded a storm door, a railing installed on the outside stairs (after installing a railing he complained that it's not made of iron and asked me to redo it, but that's where I drew a line), he called a plumber in several times about silly issues that only happened because he consistently overflowed the bathtub, today he became convinced that all the windows in the house need to be replaced. Between these and all the small things he keeps asking, I've lost $1000's already just in a few weeks. And he has a tendency to be aggressive, and he even threatened to not pay rent on his second month because he thought his demands are being ignored.

I keep hoping that every time he makes a request and I comply, he'll eventually be happy and stop costing me so much. But after today's windows request, I'm starting to think that he might just be a perpetual complainer and will cost me money every single week as long as he lives in the unit. I'm wondering if someone has any suggestions on what I can do?

I don't think I should or even can evict him - that seems too extreme as he's not squatting and he's not destroying the house. Ideally I'd like to ask him something along the lines of "if you're so unhappy with the condition of the house, would you like to break out of the contract and leave at the end of this month or next month, no hard feelings?" but I'm afraid that if I say that he'll get aggressive and attacking and will become an even bigger nightmare because he'll think that now I'm against him.

Anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences?

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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
7y

I think your approach is correct and you should offer him the opportunity to leave the premises without penalty

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  • Jon S.Pro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    7y

    @Steve Vaughan

    These are a couple of clever screening strategies I haven’t heard before. If you can share your full placement strategy that would be awesome, either by private PM or by open posting to this thread.

    0Reply
  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    My opinion:

    1.  Fix the repairs.   Fix the major ones quickly.  Accumulate some of the minor repairs so your worker doesn't make 20 trips.  I tend to suggest for them to make a list, so I don't have to disturb them with multiple trips.  I would tell a tenant to go through the house and make their list of repairs.  I call it a punchlist.

    2.  Alterations.  You rented the property and you do not have to answer to their every whim.   Examples of requests that I reject:   I want a ceiling fan, I want a fence around the property, I want my daughter's room painted pink, etc..   I have good firm rejection replies that avoids hurting anyone's feelings.

    All landlords face this type of tenants.  I think that more upscale properties require more servicing that others.   One of the most complained about tasks for being a landlord is handling the requests and calls for tenants.  There really is no upside to this as every call is a financial charge to you.  Some of the repairs will inevitably improve your building.  But the number of calls have to be limited with this tenant.

    3.  Should you have a talk with this tenant?  I would.  Say that you should receive a call no more than once a month for minor repairs.  And suggest if they are not happy with their property, you will let them break their lease in the next 60 days.  Do not let them keep an open ended promise that they can leave if they don't like it.  Control them, don't let them control you.  

    Last, be a good landlord.  Try your best.  They are the customer.

    2Reply
  • Jon S.Pro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali

    What are you paying a PM for? If you're going to be hands on then why not keep the fees and % your paying the PM? Last I checked a SFR rental doesn't cash flow enough to give a PM a free handout. From what I see you're getting taken advantage of by both the tenant and the PM. One is getting a free ride (pm fees) and the other is getting free upgrades as well as free service calls due to tenant negligence (bath overflow). Does your lease have a clause regarding repairs due to tenant negligence? Does your lease hold the tenant responsible for the first x dollars of normal repairs? If not, then who wrote the lease? I suspect the PM uses their own lease. Take a look at it. You might need a new PM more than you need a new tenant! The tenant should be bothering the PM. If you stop answering the Tenant's every text and calls, and just respond with the PM's contact info, they will most likely stop calling you. If your PM can't handle the tenant issues then your just completely burning your profit margin.

    1Reply
  • Megan Barron
    Rental Property Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali

    Oh my word I am so sorry you are dealing with a tenant like that! When I was a renter I made sure to never bother my landlord because I never wanted my rent raised!

    1Reply
  • Michael Ablan
    Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali  -  Did he agree to rent your house based on what he saw on the walk through?  If so, then he made the conscious decision that it was good enough for him to live there.  Don't give in to any more of his demands.  Take the power back from him and give him an ultimatum.  

    No I'm not replacing the windows.   This house is being rented as is, and if you don't like it then leave.  If you don't put your foot down then this person isn't going to stop (and they probably won't anyways.)  If he threatens to not pay rent, then good.  File the eviction and follow it through all the way to court and put a permanent stain on his record.  Make sure he knows that he will never be able to rent another nice unit again.

    I hate people like this.  I make sure to keep my eyes open for them when I'm showing my units.  I find reasons to disqualify their application the moment they start showing signs of being uncharacteristically demanding.  It's not worth it.  There's millions of other qualified tenants who don't act this way, or treat you like you're crap.  

    2Reply
  • Eli Lederman
    New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 215 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali let them leave. That simple

    0Reply
  • Dean Attali
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    Thank you everyone for the loads of great suggestions! This has been very helpful, and I definitely have some good advice I'll be implementing starting with the next PM and tenant.

    A lot of people have asked about why he contacts me and not the PM - he keeps telling me that the PM doesn't respond to him fast enough. The PM says he always replies within 2 days. I don't know who to believe, but lesson definitely learned: don't give out my number, make sure tenant has expectations set, make sure PM has made it clear to tenant that house is rented as is, it's ok and important to draw lines and say "no" and not worry about always appeasing the tenant. Lots of good lessons!

    1Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    To be honest, I think 2 days is too long to reply to a tenant's problem. Maybe that's the norm - I don't know, since I manage my own properties, but if there's really something wrong, it doesn't take much to just let the tenant know that I received and I'm on it or that it will take me 2 days to get someone out. But to not even respond until 2 days later is bad imho

    1Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali. I would stop communicating with the tenant directly. Next time the tenant contacts you that they need to contact the PM. Let the PM know that you will not be making any other changes unless it is a repair or safety issue and ask them to inform

    the tenant. Or if you insist on communicating yourself directly with the tenant, get rid of PM and I form the tenant yourself.

    Don’t be threatened into making changes. If the tenant does not pay rent next month, follow your state’s law to begin the eviction process. The tenant will likely realize you mean business and then pay up to avoid being evicted. If not then at least you can get out the nuisance tenants and find someone else. Usually complainers like to complain though and not move so they will likely just continue paying and complaining until they realize that their complaints fall on deaf ears. Stop appeasing the tenants though by making improvements for them. I would only fix crucial issues like a water leak, etc. I would not consider any other changes for these tenants or you will only hurt your profit margin and still not please these tenants.

    0Reply
  • Chuck Mader
    Investor · Punta Gorda, FL · Member since 2015 · 35 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    Say no.

    Unless the law says you have to fix something, say no.

    It’s utterly ridiculous a tenant is asking you to replace windows.

    If they don’t pay, start the eviction process.

    1Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali the longer he stays there the more stress and money it’s going to cost you. Get him out sooner than later even if it cost you some extra money.

    0Reply
  • Michael J Callinan
    Rental Property Investor · Clinton, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    You should explain to him that you do everything possible to keep your tenants in a safe environment for their stay. Explain that is appears even after multiple site visits he is unhappy with the place and neither of you want that. After multiple attempts to please and fix certain issues you find it best to let him out of the lease with no penalties. You are also willing to give him a recommendation for his next place. As long as the repairs are not safety concerns you could bring up the fact that if the rent is not paid on time you will serve him and begin the eviction process because he has no ground to stand on there.

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jon S.:

    @Steve Vaughan

    These are a couple of clever screening strategies I haven’t heard before. If you can share your full placement strategy that would be awesome, either by private PM or by open posting to this thread.

    Thanks, Jon.  My approach is more to avoid the nightmare tenant and save effort than most.  I woukd never hold an open house, but will post a link to another process threas going on now:  https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/659997-what-is-your-rental-process?page=1#p3905865

    I will add 2 other questions I ask in my for rent ad that have worked well. How soon would you like to move?  Is this far from your work or income source?    Save yourself trouble and don't include your ph#.  Good luck out there!

    1Reply
  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali I'm sorry for all your troubles, that sounds like a nightmare tenant. Another example of why I like my month-to-month rental agreements. I would just ask him to leave and the issue would be resolved. Or I could even raise the rent to cover all of his costly expenses.

    2Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali,

    Yes, I'd absolutely let him out of the lease.   He isn't happy,   and wants top of the line-- go some where else and pay for it.    Remind him that it's rented as-is, and he saw and knew exactly what it looked like in the beginning.  At the very beginning, both parties are setting up their relationship, and how/what they will put up with, so letting him go will show that you aren't jumping at his call. 

    When tenants start asking for bigger ticket items, I let the know that each year at renewal we like to re-invest in our homes (up to $200)  and allow them to pick the upgrade.   If they want it right now, we will have to raise rent.   Let them pick!

    0Reply
  • Shaune L Clark II
    Rental Property Investor · Evansville, IN · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 27 votes
    7y
    @Dean Attali Ill just throw my oppinion on here in case it helps. As others have said this is absolutly not a tenant problem. This is a PM problem. Who knows what he said durring the walk throughs. Maybe durring the walk through he said "yeah ill get a storm door up there for you" and now the tenanat just wants it done. And you need to have an agreement with your PM saying he responds to your tenants faster than two days. If his job is "PM" he needs to devote his attention to it. I work a full time job and have it in my lease that i will respond within 24 hrs. Also come up with a flow chart that is easy to understand and go over it with your PM. For instance is it a safety issue? If yes repair imediatly if no will it increase the value of the property? If yes than schedule the repair if not will your tenant be willing to pay for half of said upgrade? Just get a flow chart so you dont have to think when the time comes just act. Always be polite and treat people with respect. If your flow chart leads to a no send a letter or an email that just says im sorry we (business name) do not feel comfortable making this purchase at this time. We can revisit it in the future perhaps during our next lease. We always strive to meet all of our tenants requests but we just have decidwd against it at this time. My honest oppinion is keep the tenant and ditch the PM... hope that helps.
    2Reply
  • Justin Murray
    Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 21 votes
    7y
    @Dean Attali This does sound rough and im sorry you are going through it. Luckily I haven't had a tenant liked this yet but I am the parent of a 4 year old and it sounds like they use very similar tactics. Right now, this tenant is training you. They are learning that if they ask and ask and bug you over and over again eventually you will give in. There's no reason you should be doing cosmetic upgrades per their preferences. You need to operate this like a business . When you give in just because they bother you frequently they learn all they have to do to get their way is keep asking. Say no firmly the first time they ask and dont give in. If something is a violation of the law or puts safety at stake, absolutely fix it as fast as possible. Also, I would say that the tenant isn't as big of a problem as your pm
    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Dean Attali  your situation is not lost yet. 

    If this were me, I would talk with the tenant and lay down the rules: 

    Tell them: text, dont call. 

    Repairs will be fixed in order of importance : life safety first then everything else when the handyman can get to them - it may be a month or so - have them make a list 

    I would explain that while I do needed repairs, I wont modify the rental ie:windows. 

    Also, you need to learn to say “no” 

    I personally self manage and enjoy it. I have had tenants similar to this guy. You need to lay the ground rules and then stick with them. 

    Also, All my tenants know me and have my cell and email.  And amazingly I dont get a barage of contacts - only when something needs repaired etc. 

    One of the reasons I do self manage is that PMs tend not to respond to tenants and they tend not to take care of my property as well as I do. 

    Anyway - good  luck :)  i think you can salvage the situation! 

    3Reply
  • Priyanka K.
    Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2018 · 93 posts · 28 votes
    7y

    I always include a service call fee for each issue they report and want fixed so that they don't abuse it. 

    This is, of course, after fixing any move in issues (issues reported on move in checklist).

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Write the happy clause letter. basically you dont seem happy leave in x days and we will cancel the lease this is a one time offer if he doesnt take it, the lease stands. Have a response time, i have used a form. Cite any relevant requests e.g. window replacement request that are unreasonable. Second outline the rules of engagement if he stays. He should contact the pm and urgent issues will be responsed to in x time ( define what would be urgent). The Pm will get back to him on his Non urgent requests in 2 days. To start off you want his move in list of requested repairs. When you get the list say no to anything that was rented as is such as windows, yes to safety issues and things broken. IMHO this letter can be composed by you but sent by the PM. Lastly do NOT Promise future upgrades like windows. I Hope he leaves but wish you well if he doesnt
    0Reply
  • Dean Attali
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Toronto · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    @Colleen F. that's a good summary of all the action items suggested. I'm going to do exactly that today. Thank you everyone

    0Reply
  • Jon S.Pro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 92 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Jon S.:

    @Steve Vaughan

    These are a couple of clever screening strategies I haven’t heard before. If you can share your full placement strategy that would be awesome, either by private PM or by open posting to this thread.

    Thanks, Jon.  My approach is more to avoid the nightmare tenant and save effort than most.  I woukd never hold an open house, but will post a link to another process threas going on now:  https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/659...

    I will add 2 other questions I ask in my for rent ad that have worked well. How soon would you like to move?  Is this far from your work or income source?    Save yourself trouble and don't include your ph#.  Good luck out there!

     Thanks Steve!

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    @Shaune L Clark II

    This is neither a tenant or PM problem. It is a landlord problem. He has not managed or trained his tenant or his PM. 

    It will be intereting to see where this ends up.

    0Reply
  • Huiping S.
    Homeowner · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 358 posts · 65 votes
    7y

    Frustrated landlord searched this title and read the entire thread. :-)

    My one tenant requested tiny things every week for almost 2 month. I initiated the conversation for her to move out and i cancel the lease ASAP.

    Last night she send out message to me just after our maintenance guy left like this: a spider net is on porch and hope i can send someone there to clean it!

    I talked to our maintenance guy what he thinks about the work he did during past few month, and he said this: the work are unnecessary for a tenant to ask a landlord. I asked him to write down this for me.

    Like someone said: I would rather my property to be vacant for few month but no interest to give any my attention for this woman anymore.

    0Reply
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