Alleged Self-Help Eviction Goes Tragically Wrong

Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes

Such a tragedy

https://meaww.com/three-people-arrested-utah-real-...

The tenets claim he was doing an illegal eviction, given their general character it is hard to believe them. Entirely possible he was just trying to talk to them. I am sure the lack of rent payments was a real hardship on the landlord. Who knows what really happened, just a terrible thing all around.

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Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

This is just sad. Hobby LL father of 4 going over personally to a unit to 'collect rent'.

People, this is not worth it. With all the talk of being a LL like it's sexy or something so you can achieve FI so you can do what you want.

Landlording should not be a hobby for novices dealing with the shady. These are not your office colleagues. Not all people are good.

Screen. Check references. Be wary of 'stories' and no rental history. I guarantee these people started feeding this poor guy a story from go.

Do not collect rent personally. They can get their butt to the bank themselves or use online platforms.

Use the buddy system. Preferrably a large ugly buddy. Ladies especially. Be careful out there.

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Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Detective Wilking also disputed Velasquez’s story, saying there was no evidence of the apartment’s door being kicked in or of a chokehold.
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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
7y
@Patrick M.
Not sure what your problem is but you are way off base in your accusations.
There are two things that are abundantly obvious from the information we have. The landlord was responsible for his actions that lead to his death and the courts will decide what the tenant will be held responsible for.
I read statements of fact on this thread on the part of those you are attacking, nothing in regards to support of the tenant.
"So call me an ***."...……… OK, you asked for it.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

@Patrick M.
Not sure what your problem is but you are way off base in your accusations.
There are two things that are abundantly obvious from the information we have. The landlord was responsible for his actions that lead to his death and the courts will decide what the tenant will be held responsible for.
I read statements of fact on this thread on the part of those you are attacking, nothing in regards to support of the tenant.
"So call me an ***."...……… OK, you asked for it.
Thomas years ago ( last decade) I had bought a foreclosure and the guy was a vet and just would not move and would not pay rent.. I let him stay Oh i dont know 6 to 9 months until I just had to clear this one off my credit line so i was forced to evict. and do a full sheriffs eviction. So we show up and the tenant did not answer the door as we stood there. come to find out when the cop went in he said for us to go wait in the car.. guy left his wallet and a letter on table. cop knew what that meant.. and this poor guy shot himself in the back yard.
but It did not occur to me that these folks could be armed and potentially use those guns. and all the times i had tried to talk to him I even bought half of his stuff to try to help him move ( tools and such).. but it scared me he could have looked at me as the big bad guy that bought his home at auction then was evicting him and well he shoots me :( there is risk in landlording that many just dont quite fathom..
And we never had crossed words he was fairly mello the whole time but i just told him I need my asset back. I am not keeping this i am going to flip it. but he was not going anywhere it turned out.
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Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Thomas S.
"@Patrick M. we don't know all the details but we do know this: the Landlord was inside the apartment when he was shot which indicates he made the decision to confront them and attempt a self-help eviction."
Is not a statement of fact
"There was no evidence of the apartment door being kicked in or of a chokehold"
is a statement of fact
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John Nachtigall
OP
Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
7y
As difficult as this discussion has become I think it is important to have. Obviously the police did not think the shooting was justified, they arrested him and the women. I don't think anyone in this forum thinks the shooting was justified. I can say I certainly don't buy the defendants story. There is no reason to turn on each other, this is a tragedy we all agree. We all want the perpetrators to receive justice.
The point is that there are legitimate safety concerns with regard to being a landlord/property manager. Desperate/Evil people will do desperate/evil things. Be careful, and realize that not everyone follows the accepted norms of civility.
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Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@John Nachtigall I agree.
It is amazing how many (thankfully mostly minor in comparison) problems begin with the screening process or the lack of it.
It is apparent in later articles that he rented to someone who would not have passed a proper vetting.
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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
7y
@Patrick M.
"Is not a statement of fact"
Landlord confronts a tenant, landlord ends up dead. Statement of facts. Everything else is simply musings and speculation on known or unknown facts.
I could easily make comments regarding the decisions the landlord made that place him in a very unfavourable light. That could easily be interpreted as some how justifying the tenants actions. That would however be entirely the wrong assumption.
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

...guy left his wallet and a letter on table. cop knew what that meant.. and this poor guy shot himself in the back yard.
Just imagine what a miserable job you have when you see a wallet and a letter on a table and you just know there's a corpse without a head in the backyard.
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John Nachtigall
OP
Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
7y
Charges Filed
https://www.scribd.com/document/398845594/Manuel-V...
He is exactly the kind of scumbag you would expect
https://www.ksl.com/article/46478484/slain-real-es...
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

...guy left his wallet and a letter on table. cop knew what that meant.. and this poor guy shot himself in the back yard.
Just imagine what a miserable job you have when you see a wallet and a letter on a table and you just know there's a corpse without a head in the backyard.
What was even worse was I Had Dorey my in house manager with me and she broke down just with the thought.. we did not see anything
of course
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @John Nachtigall:

Charges Filed
https://www.scribd.com/document/398845594/Manuel-V...
He is exactly the kind of scumbag you would expect
https://www.ksl.com/article/46478484/slain-real-es...
well that about sums it up.. some people may not be street wise as well.. but for sure if your dealing in C and D class this is a risk.
at all times. what i see is the women renting units on hud or whatever then the next thing you know boy friend is there and they are the bad people
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Very sad, but I think this will keep getting more common. The amount of newbies getting into rental properties is expanding at an exponential rate. As with any "mad rush" people who get in later have more problems. People are paying more and getting less desirable properties. They are in a panic to rent, so they take the first person with a pulse. Not picking on this guy or his family, but for others reading this:
- Do criminal background checks and don't rent to felons
- Do financial checks and pay close attention to the addresses and other information on the report. They don't need perfect credit but I guarantee con men and criminals are going to be in the 500's
- Don't buy crappy D properties for under $50K. There are landlords who can handle it, but 99.99% can't. Buy in a bad neighborhood you attract bad people.
- Never post or serve notice to vacate yourself. Hire a process server or sheriff to serve notice. Not only for safety but for legal reasons.
- Avoid confrontation. Be nice to people and if it comes to eviction, let others handle it. You should never swear or yell. It is just business.
- Protect your personal residence. Don't have tenants sending rent to your house or worse yet hand delivering it. Use online rent collection or PO Box. Get security cameras and a security system.
- It is just money. Really who cares if you lose a couple thousand dollars. If you don't have an extra couple thousand dollars, you should not be in this business. I have had a couple unstable tenants over the years and I just let them walk. Never went after them for money, because:
A - Very low chance I would ever get a penny.
B - Better to sever any connection to crazy people because who knows what they will do.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Very sad, but I think this will keep getting more common. The amount of newbies getting into rental properties is expanding at an exponential rate. As with any "mad rush" people who get in later have more problems. People are paying more and getting less desirable properties. They are in a panic to rent, so they take the first person with a pulse. Not picking on this guy or his family, but for others reading this:
- Do criminal background checks and don't rent to felons
- Do financial checks and pay close attention to the addresses and other information on the report. They don't need perfect credit but I guarantee con men and criminals are going to be in the 500's
- Don't buy crappy D properties for under $50K. There are landlords who can handle it, but 99.99% can't. Buy in a bad neighborhood you attract bad people.
- Never post or serve notice to vacate yourself. Hire a process server or sheriff to serve notice. Not only for safety but for legal reasons.
- Avoid confrontation. Be nice to people and if it comes to eviction, let others handle it. You should never swear or yell. It is just business.
- Protect your personal residence. Don't have tenants sending rent to your house or worse yet hand delivering it. Use online rent collection or PO Box. Get security cameras and a security system.
- It is just money. Really who cares if you lose a couple thousand dollars. If you don't have an extra couple thousand dollars, you should not be in this business. I have had a couple unstable tenants over the years and I just let them walk. Never went after them for money, because:
A - Very low chance I would ever get a penny.
B - Better to sever any connection to crazy people because who knows what they will do.
Very good Joe.. as you state so many folks are getting into this business with max leverage and well 6 months of reserves are simply not enough.. so it puts landlords in panic situation vis a vi collecting their rents.. this is truly a sad one..
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
The ghetto is not sanitized for your protection. There is a disproportionate number of people in real estate nowadays who see real estate as an alternative passive investment strategy that's all about plugging numbers into a calculator, filling out forms, and writing official letters. Low-income landlording, to them, is simply a higher and more remunerative form of these same activities.
You go into the ghetto, you'd better know how to keep lines of communication open with damaged people, build up quality relations with local magistrates and law enforcement, and watch your step after dark. You're playing for keepsies.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:

The ghetto is not sanitized for your protection. There is a disproportionate number of people in real estate nowadays who see real estate as an alternative passive investment strategy that's all about plugging numbers into a calculator, filling out forms, and writing official letters. Low-income landlording, to them, is simply a higher and more remunerative form of these same activities.
You go into the ghetto, you'd better know how to keep lines of communication open with damaged people, build up quality relations with local magistrates and law enforcement, and watch your step after dark. You're playing for keepsies.
Spot on! I can't count the number of engineers or similar that are getting into investing. They run the numbers on a spreadsheet and buy some cheap properties in the hood. They believe if they just have a good "system" that they will succeed. These spreadsheets and systems ignore the reality of flawed people. These people on drugs or criminals play by different rules.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:
The ghetto is not sanitized for your protection. There is a disproportionate number of people in real estate nowadays who see real estate as an alternative passive investment strategy that's all about plugging numbers into a calculator, filling out forms, and writing official letters. Low-income landlording, to them, is simply a higher and more remunerative form of these same activities.
You go into the ghetto, you'd better know how to keep lines of communication open with damaged people, build up quality relations with local magistrates and law enforcement, and watch your step after dark. You're playing for keepsies.
Spot on! I can't count the number of engineers or similar that are getting into investing. They run the numbers on a spreadsheet and buy some cheap properties in the hood. They believe if they just have a good "system" that they will succeed. These spreadsheets and systems ignore the reality of flawed people. These people on drugs or criminals play by different rules.
those areas and tenants tend to just wear investors down. most buy saying they will never sell they are forever.. and well that changes after 3 to 5 years of dealing with this type of asset.. if there was not failure by landlords in a significant way there would not be hardly any properties to buy.. they would all be performing and ginning along just fine.. since they are not building any new ones.. its just recycle the old inventory from burnt out landlords who give up their dream of thinking low end rentals is financial freedom.
Nicer assets while no immune have so much better chance of treating the landlord right over the course of the years.. better tenants more stability.. it takes some real effort to manage these assets.. and its no way passive its a vocation for sure.
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