Alleged Self-Help Eviction Goes Tragically Wrong

Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes

Such a tragedy

https://meaww.com/three-people-arrested-utah-real-...

The tenets claim he was doing an illegal eviction, given their general character it is hard to believe them. Entirely possible he was just trying to talk to them. I am sure the lack of rent payments was a real hardship on the landlord. Who knows what really happened, just a terrible thing all around.

1 Reply

95 views

Most Popular Reply

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

This is just sad. Hobby LL father of 4 going over personally to a unit to 'collect rent'.

People, this is not worth it. With all the talk of being a LL like it's sexy or something so you can achieve FI so you can do what you want.

Landlording should not be a hobby for novices dealing with the shady. These are not your office colleagues. Not all people are good.

Screen. Check references. Be wary of 'stories' and no rental history. I guarantee these people started feeding this poor guy a story from go.

Do not collect rent personally. They can get their butt to the bank themselves or use online platforms.

Use the buddy system. Preferrably a large ugly buddy. Ladies especially. Be careful out there.

4 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

41 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
7y
Possibly a situation where higher screening standards are required.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
these happen more often than you would think. thats why all the pms i know that do C class and below go armed.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
2 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
This is just sad. Hobby LL father of 4 going over personally to a unit to 'collect rent'.
People, this is not worth it. With all the talk of being a LL like it's sexy or something so you can achieve FI so you can do what you want.
Landlording should not be a hobby for novices dealing with the shady. These are not your office colleagues. Not all people are good.
Screen. Check references. Be wary of 'stories' and no rental history. I guarantee these people started feeding this poor guy a story from go.
Do not collect rent personally. They can get their butt to the bank themselves or use online platforms.
Use the buddy system. Preferrably a large ugly buddy. Ladies especially. Be careful out there.
4 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
The guy had a beautiful family . What a cryin shame !
Good screening may have prevented this . I don’t think it’s political to say We really need some border security in this country .
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

This is just sad. Hobby LL father of 4 going over personally to a unit to 'collect rent'.
People, this is not worth it. With all the talk of being a LL like it's sexy or something so you can achieve FI so you can do what you want.
Landlording should not be a hobby for novices dealing with the shady. These are not your office colleagues. Not all people are good.
Screen. Check references. Be wary of 'stories' and no rental history. I guarantee these people started feeding this poor guy a story from go.
Do not collect rent personally. They can get their butt to the bank themselves or use online platforms.
Use the buddy system. Preferrably a large ugly buddy. Ladies especially. Be careful out there.
not everyone is cut out for landlording.. this guy if the story is accurate at all confronted these guys.. like all you professional landlords on this site say.. have to take emotion out of it.. this guy probably went over there in over drive.. and was taking it personally that he was not getting rent excetra.. and it escalated.. evictions are part of the game.. its why you own the asset and others rent..
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
2 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

This is just sad. Hobby LL father of 4 going over personally to a unit to 'collect rent'.
People, this is not worth it. With all the talk of being a LL like it's sexy or something so you can achieve FI so you can do what you want.
Landlording should not be a hobby for novices dealing with the shady. These are not your office colleagues. Not all people are good.
Screen. Check references. Be wary of 'stories' and no rental history. I guarantee these people started feeding this poor guy a story from go.
Do not collect rent personally. They can get their butt to the bank themselves or use online platforms.
Use the buddy system. Preferrably a large ugly buddy. Ladies especially. Be careful out there.
not everyone is cut out for landlording.. this guy if the story is accurate at all confronted these guys.. like all you professional landlords on this site say.. have to take emotion out of it.. this guy probably went over there in over drive.. and was taking it personally that he was not getting rent excetra.. and it escalated.. evictions are part of the game.. its why you own the asset and others rent..
Yep yep, Jay.
Also speaks to lack of reserves. Hard to not get emotional when you need rent to feed your family/make the mortgage.
I served somebody yesterday via my big ugly server. Slept great last night. Not a big deal.
Also have a vacancy I keep forgetting about/ waiting on better prospects. Have reserves and treat this like a business.
1 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
A sad situation.
I don't appreciate the title of the thread and the fact that article prints the murderers self defense account as fact. You are allowing the murdering felon to dictate the narrative.
I don't see any accusations of self help eviction (which is a no-no) beside the completely worthless accusations of the murderer.
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs and @Steve Vaughan are you guys on the defense team?
I think the guy went over there to give them one last shot to pay up before he legally files for eviction. I think he did it in a very professional way. Prove me wrong.
I certainly don't mean to say he made huge mistakes- but stop amplifying what this murderer alleges.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@Jay Hinrichs and @Steve Vaughan are you guys on the defense team?
I think the guy went over there to give them one last shot to pay up before he legally files for eviction. I think he did it in a very professional way. Prove me wrong.
I certainly don't mean to say he made huge mistakes- but stop amplifying what this murderer alleges.
no one knows for sure what happened.. LIke I said if the allegations are accurate.. sounded like probably something that got heated on both ends.. I don't landlord any more for these exact reasons.. I got so sick of tenants in all varieties.. there was a case In Detroit a few years back. Aussie investor takes the summer off well their winter is our summer. to personally work on a 4 plex in Detroit.. gets in an argument with tenant she calls her uncle her uncle comes over it excalates and uncle shoots him dead on the front porch in the middle of the day.. emotions took over I am sure on both sides.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:
@Jay Hinrichs and @Steve Vaughan are you guys on the defense team?
I think the guy went over there to give them one last shot to pay up before he legally files for eviction. I think he did it in a very professional way. Prove me wrong.
I certainly don't mean to say he made huge mistakes- but stop amplifying what this murderer alleges.
In these days of 15 ways to communicate, there's no reason to 'go over there' at night to offer one more chance. The only reason that would be considered, to me, is if they broke off communications and quit answering their phone calls/texts. All the more reason to not handle it like a hobby and 'go over there' by yourself in your little suit.
I was simply trying to warn newbs that landlording is not all wealth and glory. I am sad for this guy and his family. At least use the buddy system if 'going over' into a potentially hostile situation. You'll want a witness anyway.
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@Jay Hinrichs and @Steve Vaughan are you guys on the defense team?
I think the guy went over there to give them one last shot to pay up before he legally files for eviction. I think he did it in a very professional way. Prove me wrong.
I certainly don't mean to say he made huge mistakes- but stop amplifying what this murderer alleges.
In these days of 15 ways to communicate, there's no reason to 'go over there' at night to offer one more chance. The only reason that would be considered, to me, is if they broke off communications and quit answering their phone calls/texts. All the more reason to not handle it like a hobby and 'go over there' by yourself in your little suit.
I was simply trying to warn newbs that landlording is not all wealth and glory. I am sad for this guy and his family. At least use the buddy system if 'going over' into a potentially hostile situation. You'll want a witness anyway.
also as a lifelong agent who has talked to thousands of clients most great some very weird and some just scary.. you knock on the door then take 2 to 5 steps back.. and go no further. I suspect this would not have happened if he did not enter the premises. although like I said the one in detriot that was on the front lawn
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs again, I am not saying the guy did not make a whole boatload of mistakes, but lets not lend an ounce of credibility to the murders self defense argument.
0 Reply
John Nachtigall
OP
Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

A sad situation.
I don't appreciate the title of the thread and the fact that article prints the murderers self defense account as fact. You are allowing the murdering felon to dictate the narrative.
I don't see any accusations of self help eviction (which is a no-no) beside the completely worthless accusations of the murderer.
That is why I said "Alleged" in the title. I posted it because it was a tragedy and there is something to learn here about land lording and safety. I don't believe them for a minute. Given they hid the body nothing they say should be trusted. Their "defense" will not get far in court. 3 drug users/dealers who kill a family man and hide the body, lie about it, ditch the car, and get caught. Oh yeah, I totally believe now it was self defense...not. Makes you glad their is a felony murder statue so the girls get the same change.
My guess is that it was a final "pay up or get out" conversation, not an eviction, that got very heated. That said, they are innocent until proven guilty so the paper was just reporting the facts of what they "allege". I believe in the Constitution, even when i don't like the result, like giving rights to scumbag murderers.
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
The police and prosecutors allege.
Felons and murders "falsely claim"
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@Jay Hinrichs again, I am not saying the guy did not make a whole boatload of mistakes, but lets not lend an ounce of credibility to the murders self defense argument.
Not sure how you read me defending these dead beat @$$ holes .. I am there with you all the way in your thought process.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
John Nachtigall
OP
Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
7y
I should have included the GoFundMe page. See link below
https://www.gofundme.com/in-memory-of-dave-stokoe
Also the killers story is already falling apart. There was no evidence of a chokehold or that the door was kicked in.
0 Reply
Allison Hazel
Lender · Indianapolis · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 8 votes
7y
My god, this thread brought out some ugly.
0 Reply
Marian Smith
Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
7y
@John Nachtigall You have to be-careful in all facets of life. You never know. My first house was in a brand new subdivision and one neighbor scolded some kids, the kids dad came back eith the kid to discuss the situation and the neighbor shot him...he bled out on the lawn. But yes, eviction is very emotional. Think of being homeless.
0 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
@Patrick M. we don't know all the details but we do know this: the Landlord was inside the apartment when he was shot which indicates he made the decision to confront them and attempt a self-help eviction.
The murderer claims the Landlord kicked in the door. It would be very easy for the police and/or newspapers to confirm that by just looking at the door. Since nobody has made a statement to the contrary, I think there's some evidence that he forced his way in.
No matter what happened, the same two lessons apply:
1. Always screen every adult. A simple screening would have uncovered previous felonies, crappy credit, bad job history, no Landlord references, etc. He should have never rented to them in the first place.
2. Follow the law. There's nothing wrong with telling your tenants to leave by 6pm on a particular day but if they don't, you shouldn't confront them or try to push the issue. Start the eviction process and abide by the law. Attempting to force someone out is going to result in an emotionally charged situation and more problems.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Nathan Gesner You assume far far too much. You have absolutely no idea of the apartment layout, whether one of the women asked him to fix a sink while she got the rent, guy came up from behind, had the gun pulled on him when they opened the door and he had no where to go...
It is quite concerning how much you take at face value coming from a murderer.
I would also add that prosecutors and police do not regularly refute allegations in the press but save it for trial. And even if the door was kicked in it could have easily been done after the fact...
But we can see that his defense attorneys have already got the upper hand as they already have a load of sheep following their narrative.
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
So my assumption is that this landlord was called over to check on the apartment/get rent and when he went inside to address an issue the tenant wanted taken care of- he was shot and killed by a known felon.
And the apologists position is- No no, that couldn't be the case! The murderer claims otherwise.
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Vs.
Like sheep...
0 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
@Patrick M. two things are clear: none of us know what really happened and you're being an ***. The OP said this was an "alleged" self-help eviction. You're upset if anyone repeats what's been stated in the news but then you go on to make assumptions based on zero evidence. Interesting tactic.
This is a tragedy and people should learn from it. Screen tenants. Do not attempt self-help evictions. If you deal in low-class rentals or tenants, know how to protect yourself.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
Website View Page
3 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
This is one of the reasons why I lost my s*** for a minute when we had that discussion about federal workers getting rent amnesty because they didn't plan for contingencies -- when landlords don't plan for contingencies we end up stuffed in a crawl space with a sob story printed about us in a local newspaper and people speculating about what we must have done wrong.

What we actually know is that the LL was in physical proximity to the tenants and the result is that the tenants are now able to tell their story while the LL is not. Everything else about this story is highly questionable.

This sort of thing is a very, very sore spot for landlords who work in ugly areas.
1 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
"@Patrick M. we don't know all the details but we do know this: the Landlord was inside the apartment when he was shot which indicates he made the decision to confront them and attempt a self-help eviction."
____________________________________________
@Nathan Gesner you made this wildly. irresponsible assumption and I confronted you on it. You would not have made this had you not adopted the murderer's narrative.
I will be so bold as to dispute that narrative. I'll speak for the guy who can't defend himself and his kid's who will one day stumble upon this thread when they are teenagers.
Why would a landlord break down a door that he has a key to? Landlords call locksmiths! We would have to pay far more for a knew door/jam and molding then getting a locksmith over there. When I look at that picture of that husband and father my "assumption" is that he would never kicked down that door. That he would never participate in a self help eviction.
So call me an ***. When you get done here maybe you can help OJ find Nicole's murderer.
0 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.