Police damage property to extract burglar

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Police damage property to extract burglar

Sarah B.
Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes

This evening, a tenant of ours was notified by the police that a man they were pursuing had entered her home (our property).  He was of no relation to our tenant, just happened to be running through the neighborhood trying to escape the cops.  Our tenant rushed home but did not have her keys (she'd left them at her house with the door unlocked) so we took keys over to help the police enter.  After a long, drawn out process, the suspect was captured and thankfully no one was hurt.  However, in the process, the police did some damage (broken doors and broken door frames) and the suspect did damage (to A/C unit, as well as tenant's personal property).  

(Ironically, last month the tenant's dog (cane corso) attacked my husband so we required the tenant to remove him from the property for liability reasons.)

My questions:  Who is financially responsible for the damages?  The police handled things correctly, but even after we provided them with keys they were unable to enter as the suspect had created a barricade with personal property.  I am wondering if I should 1) ask police to pay, 2) have tenant file a claim on her renters insurance? and/Or 3) file a claim with my insurance.  

Also, for those of you with Class C Properties - are they worth it?  I've had this one just under a year and between the dog bite last month and now this, I'm ready to sell.  I have an A- I manage from out of state that's been great but this C is a major headache.  That said, I don't want to just give up....any advice from you seasoned Class C landlords? 

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Jonathan G.
Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 382 posts · 258 votes
7y
Irony: The dog probably would have deterred the criminal.
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  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I don't know the exact answer, but I suspect the Police will not be responsible for property damage in pursuit of a criminal pursuit.  

    2Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Sarah B.

    No. 3

    I do not think that long-distance managing of this C-class property is going to work out well for you, Sarah. I believe the wisest decision with long-distance apartments is to stay away from C and D-class rentals. We self-manage a portfolio that is heavily in C-class and in some cases D-class territory, and I would not want to try doing it profitably from a distance. I would definitely give this place up and move on.

    3Reply
  • Damaso Bautista
    Rental Property Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2018 · 655 posts · 900 votes
    7y

    @Sarah B.

    Take photos of all the damage, along with quotes for how much its going to cost to repair and get documentation of the incident that occurred proving that the police were in there and caused the damage.

    Take that to City Hall to the City Clerks office and file a claim for damages with the city.  The claim will get forwarded to the Police Department to get investigated.

    The Police Deparment will either approve the claim or deny it.  

    Normally if all your documentation is in order they will take responsibility for the cost of repairing the damage.

    Good Luck!

    3Reply
  • Fred Engh
    Member since 2018 · 57 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    Your solutions suggest they are mutually exclusive. I would start with the police claim and go from there (including the tenant's property). 

    Not apples to apples but:

    Police chase claim brings mediation

    The injury claim involved a man named Derek Guindon.

    Guidon was returning home from a weeklong job out of town with a coworker, Jade Thie, on March 1, 2012, when their Midwestern Mechanical van was struck by a Chevy Suburban driven by 19-year-old Kyle Jones.

    The chase continued for more than two miles along North Cliff Avenue and reached speeds of up to 80 miles an hour.

    Thie was killed when the Suburban struck the van at Cliff’s intersection with 60th Street North.

    Guindon was seriously injured. Jones was later sentenced to 50 years in prison for manslaughter and eluding a police officer.

    After the incident, Guindon filed a liability claim against the city of Sioux Falls and the Sioux Falls Police Department.

    More: Disputes over damage can rage for years

    No formal complaint was written, but “it arose out of a high-speed chase, and there were issues about whether it should have been called off,” said Mike Schaffer, the lawyer who represented him.

    The city reached a settlement more than two years later that saw a $125,000 payment but saw no acceptance of responsibility for Guindon’s injuries.

    Mayor Mike Huether’s signature appears on the previously sealed document, but the city didn’t handle the case directly. Instead, it was handed off to the South Dakota Public Assurance Alliance, which acts an insurer for cities, counties and municipalities.

    Sioux Falls lawyer Bill Fuller handled the negotiations. The city did not agree with the allegation that the pursuit was mishandled, Fuller said, but “that was the argument that we considered, along with everything else."

    Normally, those injured in the course of a law enforcement action are obliged to collect restitution from the criminal defendant, but the city ultimately agreed that the Guindon claim was different.

    “We’ve got a truly innocent victim here who didn’t have the ability to pay,” said Assistant City Attorney Keith Allenstein.

    0Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan

    C or D class is hands on managing .big profits but big headaches too many days . Some months it’s silky smooth other months it’s phone calls for repairs late rents . Complaining and water leaks . I would hate to manage my stuff from out of state . I’d sell if your in over your head . Never been a better time to sell than right now if you go that route

    3Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    It probably depends on the city. The police kicked in a door on one of my rentals once. I filed a claim with them and they covered the entire cost.

    You can also get the bid and file it with the court system and seek restitution from the criminal that led to the police damaging the door.

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  • Michael Norris
    Specialist · Strongsville, OH · Member since 2016 · 303 posts · 217 votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan The broken door frames are relatively inexpensive and probably will not cost much more than the deductible on your policy so probably not worth making a claim on your policy.

    You could ask the PD for reimbursement as other suggested.

    The Tenants damages would most likely be claimed on the tenants renters policy (tenant has renters insurance right?!)

    This could have happened anywhere so making a choice to abandon a C property over this may be a hasty decision.

    You’ll never know the answer to this but...

    The tenant who lives in a “C” part of town leaves their place unlocked...Hmmm - really?

    I bet there is a good chance the bad guy has some knowledge of the unit and made a run there in a last ditch effort.

    The Tenant wanted no part of that and ran out of the place before the bad guy barricaded himself in there.

    I could be wrong and the bad guy just got lucky and found an open door but...

    3Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. sorry if my post wasn't clear. I self manage a class A from out of state. This Class C I'm managing is in my home town, but still a headache.

    0Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Michael Norris valid point.  I do agree that abandoning the property right now is probably hasty.  It's been a rough 2 months but prior to that was 8 smooth months so I don't think I will give up just yet.  

    Tenant does have renter's insurance as I require it.  Agreed that the situation does seem fishy - but I spent time with the tenant and she was visibly shocked/shaken by the event. It was her elementary aged son who left the back door unlocked because he couldn't find the key.  Tenant is expecting a baby and the personal property that was damaged was crib, changing table, etc which was of sentimental value so I really can't imagine she had part in it - other than (her son) leaving the door unlocked.

    We had 2 unlikely yet unfortunate events back to back with this property which is discouraging - but thank you all for your words of wisdom, experience and reassurance. REI isn't for the faint of heart but fortunately these learning opportunities have been useful in my REI education!

    1Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Fred Engh good point- solutions are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  Also - wow! What a story!! Thank you for sharing!

    0Reply
  • Josh Dane
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 100 posts · 85 votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan if it’s in Chicago, let me know! I would think you’ll never see your money if you try to get it from the police

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan

    Hi Sarah,

    I’m a police detective (and investor) that may be able to offer some assistance. When I worked the road, personal property damage was always documented in an informational report. While we patched up doors and windows to prevent further damage, it’s often the responsibility of the property owner to take initiative on reimbursement... but this differs by agency. Another poster mentioned taking your own documentation to city hall, this would be your best bet for reimbursement costs.

    Police come with the territory of class C properties, but as time goes on you will grasp how to better manage the “emergencies.”

    Good luck!

    2Reply
  • Jonathan G.
    Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 382 posts · 258 votes
    7y
    Irony: The dog probably would have deterred the criminal.
    7Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed thanks so much!!

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Sarah B.

    OK, so the question is if buying and managing C-class (in general) is worth it.

    I can't say I have all the answers about Sioux Falls. I only think I have some of them for my area. My answer is a resounding "yes" from my perspective, but with a few caveats.

    1. You have to be able to fix quite a few things yourself. This presupposed BOTH the time and the skills. If you're contracting out a broken door frame and a broken door to be fixed/replaced, that's a lot of money you could be spending elsewhere. An basic exterior entry door (pre-hung) will run you $300, an interior prehung door will run under $100. Basic molding is inexpensive. But if you have to pay contractors for something like this, you can expect to pay upwards of $700 for the front door and (depending on volume) $350 and up for interior doors. It adds and adds up in C-class housing.

    2. This is a natural outgrowth of No. 1: you have to pick properties with solid fundamentals. There's a huge difference in overall quality and long-term viability between a cheap, tract-built 3-bedroom from 1960 and a custom-built, brick-veneer 3-bedroom of the same age. You can't buy into places that are falling apart, that have structural problems deeper than an overhaul or basic renovation will solve, and expect to make money on them over the long haul.

    3. It gets easier with experience and with a good team of people backing you: your plumber, your HVAC guy, your electrician, your roofer, your real estate lawyer. Bad things will continue to happen and you'll have to deal with them as they come up, but you have to submit to the learning curve, as I've said repeatedly in these forums. You have to cultivate a mindset that accepts certain challenges as opportunities to learn.

    4. All this really ties into a central concept: landlording in this properties is very much a part-time job, not passive investing. Sooner or later, I'm sure a series of challenges in your A-class property will come up, too, and landlording there will look a lot less like passive investing, but in C-class properties, unless you're completely on top of screening and maintenance, it happens frequently.

    If what you want is to have a part-time job, of course you should invest in C-class properties. but if your goal is to be bothered by your properties as little as possible and hand off as much of the management and maintenance aspects as you can, you should most certainly not invest in C-class properties. If my wife and I had started on this path very young and with no background in this and, say, raking in upwards of $120,000 in household income yearly in our jobs, there's no way we would have gone into low-income landlording. Absolutely no way. We would reduce our annual expenses down to $15,000-$20,000, invest in index funds until we had a healthy nest egg, look into all kinds of other real estate investment possibilities, and retire in a few years. Landlording, especially in the C-class world, especially self-managing? Hell, no!

    2Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Jim K.thanks for the input!

    1Reply
  • Zac Grismer
    Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan

    file a civil tort claim with the city

    1Reply
  • Sean Gregg
    Rental Property Investor · Stow, OH · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Damaso Bautista

    I agree with Damaso. At our department if we have to use force to enter a residence automatically a report is done and then you would file a claim with the city. I know that’s a headache but you’re not liable for the repairs.. the city should take care of it.

    1Reply
  • David FawcettPro Member
    Modesto, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 61 votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan like most people have stated, it depends. It depends on the police agency, it depends on the circumstances of the incident, and it depends on which state it occurred in.

    The police agency I work for is notorious for not covering damage that we cause. For instance we were chasing a bad guy and we broke the backyard gate. We documented the incident and told the homeowner to call the city. City basically said, “it’s your problem not ours”. But I’ve also seen the city cover other similar instances. I know the city attorneys look at the circumstances of the incident.

    I know some people will suggest that you sue the city. That may work, but cities generally drag these dumb little claims out for years.

    1Reply
  • Matt P.
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    7y

    @Sarah Buchanan i have been running c class property for a few years and have experienced no trouble like this or dog attacks. I think you just screened this person poorly. I mean who even leaves their home unlocked in a c class area lol. Crazy. When I am at a property I don't even leave my truck unlocked if it's going to be out of my sight.

    1Reply
  • Matt P.
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    7y

    @Jonathan G. Yeah but it also bit her husband on the face last week. Do you own any rentals and if you do would you want a dog that could kill a small child or even an adult really easily living in your property?

    1Reply
  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Matt P. good to know!  I'm glad to know Class C is not always this way, it just feels like an unlucky couple of months so I am glad to know people are having success with Class c! Thank you for the encouragement! :)

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matt P.:

    @Sarah Buchanan i have been running c class property for a few years and have experienced no trouble like this or dog attacks. I think you just screened this person poorly. I mean who even leaves their home unlocked in a c class area lol. Crazy. When I am at a property I don't even leave my truck unlocked if it's going to be out of my sight.

    I had to learn when i got out into the mid west and c class areas to lock my car when i was getting gas..  we simply dont do that here.

    OH and well we dont pump our own gas anyway.. its illegal.. and well since i went electric i dont even buy gas.

    but the point is in those areas petty theft is a sport..  just like subs working on the houses.. you cant leave tools over night.. and in some markets you have to back your truck up the front door if you leave the back of it open to the street your stuff goes missing..  

    not everyone is cut out to manage C class or even own them.. it can be quite frustrating.

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  • Sarah B.
    OP
    Landlord · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 58 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs haha I moved from Oregon last year. :)  Sioux Falls has felt very safe which has been nice and why this situation was unexpected... But true. Need to be diligent.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Sarah B.:

    @Jay Hinrichs haha I moved from Oregon last year. :)  Sioux Falls has felt very safe which has been nice and why this situation was unexpected... But true. Need to be diligent.

     C D class is in every city... everyone  !!  if you buy rentals that have the lowest rent in the city you are going to get the least stable tenants.

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