Am I a Shady Landlady?

Am I a Shady Landlady?

Julie MarquezPro Member
Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes

All of our rental agreements are month to month. To incentivize people to stay longer, we charge a move in fee that can be added forwards the refundable deposit if they stay over a year. Example: rent is $1000, move in fee is $400, refundable deposit is $600. Tenant moves out after 11 months, he can get the max of $600 back. Tenant moves out after 12 months, he can get the max of $1000 back.

Being month to month agreement, I can raise the rent on my tenant with just 30 days notice. So, in theory, I could get a new tenant, raise the rent by $1000 on month 2, they decide to leave because it's so expensive, and now I can keep their move in fee! I have never done that - but the concept sounds so wrong to me.

In real life, I just raised the rent on a tenant after 6 months by 4%, and she let me know that she will look for different housing. And if she does move out before 12 months, I can keep her move in fee.

I am not predatory and I don't want to be shady to any of my tenants, but I realize that I could take advantage of them and they might not understand what this type of agreement entails. But it can also be a good alternative that I offer month to month instead of a typical lease, and they have to be aware the rent can be increased with the proper notice. Anyway, just my thoughts and wanted to see what comments the community had about my rental agreement.

5Reply
75 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor 路 Erie, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 9k+ votes
7y

Well You can say it鈥檚 not predatory but it is in essence . Basically Your trapping them and that is shady business by being darned if you do and darned if they don鈥檛 . Nothing to be proud of

See this reply in the discussion

67 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Realtor 路 Worcester, MA 路 Member since 2018 路 8 posts 路 7 votes
    7y

    in our state (MA) that鈥檚 just completely illegal so i鈥檝e never thought about it.

  • Fort Worth, TX 路 Member since 2018 路 117 posts 路 16 votes
    7y
    @Julie Marquez interesting
  • Investor 路 Joplin, MO 路 Member since 2015 路 76 posts 路 78 votes
    7y

    @Julie Marquez, I agree with Bob B, keep it simple and do a one year lease with a security deposit, in your example, an extra $400 to stay for full year really isn't motivating to most tenants, especially when you increase rent after month 6. While I don't believe it is your intent, the practice comes across as shady. Regarding the dog, always meet the dog before the tenant signs and lease and since the dog is sharing a yard with you, I would have introduced the kids to the dog before the tenant and dog moved in, also I would have charged a non refundable pet deposit.

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Watertown, NY 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Julie Marquez

    This is a very interesting strategy....I've always considered switching over from 1 year leases to month-to-month, just for the ease of rent increases, move out notices, and general lease changes.  However, I'm afraid it could bait good tenants into leaving early, especially in the winter months (probably an irrational fear). But I could see how the move in fee could definitely incentivise people to stick out their lease

    Do you find you have a decent amount of move outs before you hit the 1 year mark?

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Manteca, CA 路 Member since 2017 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    7y

    M2M protects the landlord....... I can kick you out any time I want pretty much whatever reason I want with 30 day notice...PERIOD. Ticking me off with incessant calls, bugging the neighbors with your noise, just being a PITA?....bye Felicia. I don't need to prove anything..... I just don't renew you for the next month

    A longer lease protects the tenant..... it may make the landlord feel warm and fuzzy, but people will move when they want/need to....and having the ability to hold them to the lease $$ and actually getting that $$ is a different ballgame. As a landlord I have to prove you are breaking some lease term...noise, condition, late payments etc before I can end your lease early. The tenant has 90% of the leverage..... I can say "you owe me the $$ from the left over months" but can I get it? Easier said than done....

    M2M protects me.....if I do my job I wont have high turn over just because of the M2 M lease....people don't want to move and if they do I wont stop them.... I want a long term tenant and will do my best to keep them....but I want an easy way out if it goes south without them having the leverage....

  • Lender 路 Asheville, NC 路 Member since 2019 路 60 posts 路 50 votes
    7y

    If it cant be explained easily it is too complicated.

  • Rental Property Investor 路 San Diego, CA 路 Member since 2010 路 366 posts 路 314 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joel Fine:

    Just revise the terms slightly: 

    "Move-in fee converts to refundable security deposit after 12 months or any increase in rent, whichever comes first."

    I think this is a great idea! It's fair & reasonable.

    NOT fair is to abuse your power as a landlord ("I am going to raise your rent to more than you expected, or take $400 from you, and there's nothing you can do about it").

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    7y

    @Joseph Walsh We are definitely doing a not animal policy in the future. We are dog people, but tenant's pets definitely makes things more complicated. I do love a passive "set and forget" rental, but with the whole dog bite thing, I don't care if they go either. Because of the incident, I guess I could have been more direct and just gave her a 20 day notice to vacate.

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ned J.:

    M2M protects the landlord....... I can kick you out any time I want pretty much whatever reason I want with 30 day notice...PERIOD. Ticking me off with incessant calls, bugging the neighbors with your noise, just being a PITA?....bye Felicia. I don't need to prove anything..... I just don't renew you for the next month

    A longer lease protects the tenant..... it may make the landlord feel warm and fuzzy, but people will move when they want/need to....and having the ability to hold them to the lease $$ and actually getting that $$ is a different ballgame. As a landlord I have to prove you are breaking some lease term...noise, condition, late payments etc before I can end your lease early. The tenant has 90% of the leverage..... I can say "you owe me the $$ from the left over months" but can I get it? Easier said than done....

    M2M protects me.....if I do my job I wont have high turn over just because of the M2 M lease....people don't want to move and if they do I wont stop them.... I want a long term tenant and will do my best to keep them....but I want an easy way out if it goes south without them having the leverage....

     EXACTLY! 20 day notice to vacate in the State of Washington.

    My dad has been doing M2M for those exact reasons for years. With a big grin, he also told me that he usually returns the move-in fee in those in less than 12 month situations.

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    7y

    @Barry O. Yes, that's exactly what's going on in this situation. It's a gentle "please move." Or stay until you can find a new place - we don't want a turnover either, we just don't like the dog anymore. And I totally understand the dog's position in protecting the house, it just now makes for an unfortunate situation for both parties.

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    7y

    @Michael Ablan  I find that most people stay more than a year. Even if it's 11 months, that's fine with me - they can get the fee refunded. We don't have the crazy winter freeze, so I'm not so worried about seasonal vacancies. I still screen and look for tenants that are looking for long term situations. I'm doing a turnover of a unit where the guy lived for 17 years!

  • Investor 路 San Antonio, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 76 posts 路 25 votes
    7y

    @Julie Marquez

    Move in fee and no cap on rent increase are two powerful weapons at landlord disposal. LoL

  • Flipper/Rehabber 路 Austin, TX 路 Member since 2019 路 4 posts 路 3 votes
    7y

    Yes @julie Marquez because it would give me the liberty of situating myself in a place I find best fitting. Or If I want to travel for some time and just move my stuff in dirt cheap storage I could do that. -As a consumer I dont have to think too far ahead.

    However, as an investor, I want honesty and commitment. If the consumer is not willing to put up at least 6 months, then what's to tell me they're going to be a good tenant? That they'll take care of the property?

    That's my quick 2 cents for ya. 馃榿

  • Investor 路 Punta Gorda, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 35 posts 路 30 votes
    7y

    If you鈥檙e having to ask the group if it鈥檚 shady.....I know I wouldn鈥檛 rent from you - especially when you disclosed you raised the rent 6 months in.

    You鈥檙e trying to get the benefit of a long term lease without the responsibility of it.

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Jacksonville, Florida Area 路 Member since 2016 路 106 posts 路 48 votes
    7y

    @Julie Marquez Will the tenant leave your rental in good shape if you keep the money? That is what I would be thinking about.

  • Member since 2019 路 15 posts 路 16 votes
    7y

    @Julie Marquez

    Seems predatory to me.

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Julie Marquez Will the tenant leave your rental in good shape if you keep the money? That is what I would be thinking about.

     Interesting question.

    1. Yes, our tenants leave the units in great condition. I wonder if the tenant even remembers the fee structure. I could make it more obvious on the move out form, but...

    2. Most tenants stay over a year and we never have an issue.

    3. Tenants less than a year who are still in good standing get their move in fee back anyway.

    4. Historically, bad ones less than a year get their move in fee back too. It's like a cash-for-keys deal and much cheaper than an eviction. No reason to have a bad conscious or go to court over $400 when you want the person gone anyway.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.