Electric Baseboards of Forced Air

Investor · Stillwater, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 44 votes

Advice needed : I have an older duplex in Minnesota that has had all the radiators removed. The old boilers are shot as well. I’m putting in a heating system from scratch.

Electric heat is the least expensive to install. Does electric heat make the property less valuable upon resale? More importantly, does it make it less attractive as a rental? This property will be a Class C property.

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John Warren

Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

@Joe Schaak I have a four unit in Lyons, IL with electric baseboard, and it has been far and away my easiest and most profitable investment. It is in a quiet, B class area, and the tenants have not every complained. Best of all, I have never had a service call on the electric base board. The same cannot be said for my forced air and boiler heated buildings in the area.

I also have a 20 unit in a C- area, and we have electric baseboard there as well. The tenants have mentioned it being expensive a few times, although this particular group of tenants keeps the heat in the 80's and 90's, so I don't feel too bad for them. Again, the baseboard heaters have had minimal issues. A few of the units have needed to be replaced due to tenant damage, and they are very cheap to replace. I think they run $50-75 each at home depot plus a bit of labor to have the handyman install them.

I would think long and hard before you drop 5-7k per unit in a C class area installing forced air. Just throw the baseboard heaters in and be done with it.

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Brian Adzadi
Allentown, PA · Member since 2016 · 515 posts · 404 votes
7y
@Joe Schaak
An older duplex in a class C neighborhood? If you are planning to rent it for now, put in an electric baseboard heater and keep it moving my friend.
Unless its an upcoming neighborhood that is seeing gentrification, its not necessary to put in expensive equipment which the tenants at the end of the day will not care about.
2 Reply
Charlie MacPherson
China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak I'd look through other rentals in your area and see if electric heat is common.
If it is, it may not be a big deal. But if yours is the only rental in the area with electric heat, it will be the last one rented.
The other consideration is that you will need to upgrade your electric service if the current one can't handle the additional load. That cost will offset a good portion of the savings you were counting on from the cheaper installation.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
You have to know utility rates. In my area, electric heat is the most expensive option so gas heat would be more expensive to install but it would pay for itself quickly due to reduced utilities. If your renters have to pay $1,000 rent and then the electric bill is another $400 you may have a hard time finding a renter.
Again, I have no idea what you are paying but I suspect PA isn't cheap or warm so crunch the numbers and compare apples to apples.
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Jim S.
Sterman, MI · Member since 2017 · 378 posts · 306 votes
7y
I have older home rentals. As soon as I tell my potential renters it has forced air heat their reaction is "good". They don't like electric heat. Like he said, check your competitors.
2 Reply
John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak I would want to know the difference in utility costs. Granted your tenants will be paying the utility bill but if it runs high they will be complaining and will not stay long.
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Ray Harrell
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
7y
Forced air heat means more than just putting in a furnace. You have to make sure your ceilings have sufficient clearance for ducts and returns. This will either involve tearing out your ceiling to run ductwork between joists, or creating many, many soffits and covering them with drywall. Electric baseboard heat will be your cheapest install by far. In a class C property, my saying is, "If they don't want to deal with X, Y, Z, then they need to buy a house." B and A class tenants can afford to be a bit more choosy, but C and D tenants are pretty much scrambling to get out of a worse situation, and are just looking for a safe place to live.
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John Warren
Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak I have a four unit in Lyons, IL with electric baseboard, and it has been far and away my easiest and most profitable investment. It is in a quiet, B class area, and the tenants have not every complained. Best of all, I have never had a service call on the electric base board. The same cannot be said for my forced air and boiler heated buildings in the area.
I also have a 20 unit in a C- area, and we have electric baseboard there as well. The tenants have mentioned it being expensive a few times, although this particular group of tenants keeps the heat in the 80's and 90's, so I don't feel too bad for them. Again, the baseboard heaters have had minimal issues. A few of the units have needed to be replaced due to tenant damage, and they are very cheap to replace. I think they run $50-75 each at home depot plus a bit of labor to have the handyman install them.
I would think long and hard before you drop 5-7k per unit in a C class area installing forced air. Just throw the baseboard heaters in and be done with it.
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Tim SwierczekPro Member
Lender · White Bear Township, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak what neighborhood? I have consistantly made that switch from boiler or electric to forced air & add AC with it and I am happy. My rents are always top of market and I attract great tenants. Most of these properties are in NE Minneapolis which most would classify as a C area but if you treat your building in NE as a B building you can crush it.
2 Reply
Caleb Heimsoth
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak. I’ve got an older duplex with electric baseboard in a C type area. It doesn’t get as cold here as in the Midwest but I prefer electric board heat. Less to break. They have window AC units too. Just a lot less stuff to worry about, breaking
2 Reply
Ashley Sliwa
Flipper/Rehabber · Monson, MA · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Joe Schaak electric baseboard heat is extremly expensive ,at least in my area. I wish I had researched this before I bought my current home.
0 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Echoing the others- Look to your competitors. In my market (apartments) landlords pay the heat with the exception of a couple new units with electric base board heating. They have priced them at market when the market is set by landlords paying gas..... shaking my head. They are aging on the market, if they ever get rented I imagine they will face turn over when the tenants start getting their electric bill.
Additionally, I had a neighbor's tenant with electric heat skip out on a $500 electric bill and they threatened to not turn on the service until he proved they were evicted (which the weren't because they left), eventually he convinced them to do a walk through.
If you are pulling radiators then any competent plumber can switch the unit over to natural gas baseboards, the boilers are super efficient and you will have an advantage by supplying heat. Get some Chicago control thermostats and you are set.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
electric baseboards In a cold climate.
5k upgrade.
$ 24. Per month a unit on a 30 year note
Does this need explaining?
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Ray Harrell that short paragraph tells a ton about you.
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
I have three 2/1 single families with electric heat . They are always rented . Sure it can get expensive . But each unit has its on thermostat . I have told the tenants , turn the bedrooms down during the day , turn up the living room at the same time . At night reverse the process . I did have one complaint , wife stayed home with 2 lazy teenagers . I went in the house on a 60 degree day and it was 80 degrees inside . ( she said she liked it warm ) . Boy did they pay the price . But when both people work and do as I mentioned , the bills are reasonable
1 Reply
Matt M.
Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak
Never ever would I recommend electric heat for an entire house. #1- you will have trouble renting it #2- if you do find a tenant, good luck keeping them once they see what it costs in the winter.
1 Reply
Kyle Bruns
Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 18 votes
7y
I am often asked if my apartments are all electric. Some people like only having one utility bill. Although it's possible most people assume if it's electric heat it's a forced air electric furnace.
0 Reply
Caleb Heimsoth
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
@Matthew Paul. It’s actually more thermally efficient (meaning takes less energy) if you Keep the temperature the same all the time. It takes more energy to raise a temperature then to just maintain it.
And who says you never use anything you learn in college in real life. Lol
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Ray Harrell
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
7y
@John Hickey, maybe you've never dealt with C and D tenants. Hush.
1 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
@Caleb Heimsoth I understand the theory . BTU per therm , thermal mass , recovery rates , heat loss .
1 Reply
John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Ray Harrell Hush? Nah.
D tenants? That’s my thing day in and day out. I buy the worst properties with drugs dealers and hookers. I clean them up. I provide value and in return I mostly have good tenants. Once in a while that doesn’t work and I fix it.
when you treat customers that are vulnerable poorly like putting them in a tough situation they will return the favor. Maintenace calls broken stuff late rent
you reap what you sow.
outlook determines life. Yours is plain to see.
Carry on.
1 Reply
John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Joe Schaak lot has to do with heating days too. Sure construction type insulation and windows come into play but keep in mind some of the ppl responding aren’t seeing the weather that you are.
Where my tenants are we have weeks when the temp never goes above 10-15. I had a tenant with electric baseboard(bought it like that from a slumlord) and her bill was 600 I month.
I look at it from a simple math standpoint. That could be some of my money in rent increases but with a 600 bill she can’t afford rent increases.
2 Reply
Kenneth GarrettPro Member
Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Joe Schaak
Most of my properties located in the Midwest are gas forced air. Some boilers but not many. A few with portions of electric baseboard heat to take care of difficult cold areas. Electric heat is the most expensive. My properties, the tenants are responsible for the utilities. Still you want to make sure the tenant can afford the unit with the additional utility fees. Especially in the Chicagoland market. We have had a terribly cold winter, very high utility bills.
Good Luck.
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Ray Harrell
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
7y
@John Hickey, I do the same. However, I'm not going to put the best heating system in a building where don't appreciate it. I'm going to put the most cost effective. Do you think a drug dealer really cares about whether the heat is baseboard or forced air? They just want HEAT! Chances are, they've NEVER lived in a place with forced air. I don't think baseboard heat puts them in a tough situation. Turning off the heat does.
Not sure why you're being critical of me though. All I said was if someone is so picky to demand forced air heat, granite countertops, French door fridge, then they should be buying a house, not renting (or renting in B or A class areas). It's not a slam on the type of person, it's a business decision based on the type of property.
But I'm glad to see you are doing your part by cleaning up the drug dealers and hookers.
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Syed H.
Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
7y
Electric baseboard is fine if that is the market. Also depends on your markets weather and cost of electricity. In my market it'll get expensive in the winter, but it depends on how warm people keep it. I had one tenant who keeps it boiling hot and would leave it on 24/7, she pays $300-$400/month. But most of my other tenants who are reasonable pay much less.
$100-$150/month on average is reasonable IMO.
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Joe Schaak
OP
Investor · Stillwater, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 44 votes
7y
@Tim Swierczek, It’s 1 block west of Dale on Thomas Ave. This part of Frogtown is closer to a C-class area but it’s Frogtown none-the-less.
I think it’s more of a Sec 8 rents property. It will be a nice place but I just don’t think the neighborhood will attract non-Sec 8 folks.
Because of this, I’m leaning electric.
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