Explain the hatred of pitbulls

Aidan Mulligan · 2019-05-01T21:30:44-07:00

Hello everyone,I see something pop up all the time when talking about allowing pets on your property. Someone always says "Except if it's a pitbull, keep those away"Now I understand that "dangerous breeds" can bring higher insurance payments and some insurance companies might not give coverage at all. I have an insurance company that doesn't have such a clause so I know that the company exists. Another reasoning I get is that the dog is a good indicator of the type of person. Generally speaking, you see a pitbull and the owner stereotype that follows is some lowlife that won't pay rent.If a tenant sits down in front of me, has a 760 credit score, a full time job, no marks against him/her, and happens to have a pit, I don't see what people get up in arms about. The stigma against pitbulls is cruel and unjust. Judge the person applying in front of you and the animal should be a reflection of that person. If anything make it a requirement that you meet the dog first before making a decision.My 2 cents, let me know what you think.

Bill B.

Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes

7y

Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.

Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.

If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?

A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?

Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.

Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.

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Aidan Mulligan

OP

Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes

7y

@Bill B. I don't think you do hear story after story. You might notice more out of a bias like you see more red cars when you're looking for red cars. But since the whole Michael Vick and dog ring thing, I don't see stories like that. In fact I see studies that go against that idea and say pitbulls are more likely to pass temperate tests than Goldens.

It is unfair to judge a breed of dog based on the actions of a few select bad eggs.

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Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

7y

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined was used in blood sports.

However, it's a great family dog too. The trouble for a landlord is, you have no way of knowing which Pitbull your tenant has, because you don't know where the tenant got their's from.

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Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Central, FL · Member since 2016 · 950 posts · 821 votes

7y

My 2 cents is you have a pit bull or had one at one time based on how you described it. Could be wrong.

Why subject yourself to the level of risk for no reason. No one cares about your personal opinion when it comes to being sued or when it comes to having a kids face bitten off if the kid stepped into the dogs “territory”. Throw in almost every single insurance has a “out” to not pay for damages for a dog bite you are just asking for trouble for no real gain

While some random pit bull may be great and never cause issues would you trust someone else’s dog to be around your kid unsupervised????

My answer is I don’t allow pets at all and so I don’t get hit with a discrimination case I technically allow animals but make it painful to the pocket book.

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Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Central, FL · Member since 2016 · 950 posts · 821 votes

7y

Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined was used in blood sports.

However, it's a great family dog too. The trouble for a landlord is, you have no way of knowing which Pitbull your tenant has, because you don't know where the tenant got their's from.

Agree and on top of that all animals are all animals and at any time they can snap.

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Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined was used in blood sports.

However, it's a great family dog too. The trouble for a landlord is, you have no way of knowing which Pitbull your tenant has, because you don't know where the tenant got their's from.

Agree and on top of that all animals are all animals and at any time they can snap.

No different than humans.

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Aidan Mulligan

OP

Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes

7y

@Account Closed Halfway through your post I was going to say "By that logic then ban all pets" and then you said it. Now that I don't have an issue with. My issue is singling out a specific breed. Either allow all breeds or ban all breeds.

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Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

My 2 cents is you have a pit bull or had one at one time based on how you described it. Could be wrong.

Why subject yourself to the level of risk for no reason. No one cares about your personal opinion when it comes to being sued or when it comes to having a kids face bitten off if the kid stepped into the dogs “territory”. Throw in almost every single insurance has a “out” to not pay for damages for a dog bite you are just asking for trouble for no real gain

While some random pit bull may be great and never cause issues would you trust someone else’s dog to be around your kid unsupervised????

My answer is I don’t allow pets at all and so I don’t get hit with a discrimination case I technically allow animals but make it painful to the pocket book.

There are at least 5 other dog breeds that have attacked people more than Pitbulls. My family and friends have PB's. They are some of the nicest dogs I've ever been around. The trouble is, if you get them as pups they are usually great because you are the one training them. If you get them when they are older, you have no idea how they were trained, or what they were trained for.

Fear of PB's is a very legitimate response based on the breeds history.

By the way. Out of the 5 PB's I know my family/friends have had, all 5 were great. However, one of them was added to their family from the Humane Society. This was the 2nd PB. After 2 weeks, this second PB attacked the other PB and almost killed it.

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Bill B.

Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes

7y

A mastiff and a pit bull both killed their owners (58 and 62 years old) last year (4 days apart). A 4 year old Rottweiler killed a 1 year old 4 days ago. This is 16 months in just Las Vegas. All three dogs were adopted from area animal shelters

I wouldn’t want any of those 3 Breeds in a rental of mine.

Someone above mentioned other dogs bite more often than pit bulls that may or may not be true, but pitbulls are the human killing Kings, by a long shot...

Looks like 40 people killed per year by dogs, 75% (29) are pit bull related. So pitbulls are killing more than 1 person every 2 weeks. So yes I am hearing about story after story after story maybe you are ignoring the stories out of your bias?

Every time you get a paycheck just assume another person was killed by a pit bull

2017 dog bite fatality statistics2

2017 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities by Breed

2017 fatal dog attacks by breed

In 2017, seven dog bite fatalities involved canines from two or more different breeds, thus producing a death count total of 49 rather than 39. Seven dog breeds each contributed to one death, including: American bulldog, akita, doberman pinscher, giant schnauzer, heeler-mix, husky and rottweiler

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Aidan Mulligan

OP

Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes

7y

@Bill Brandt

https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

This is a good article that expresses both sides of the argument.

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Bill B.

Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes

7y

It’s all good. The original post asked a real question and I have a real reason. If you can avoid 75% of all dog related deaths by not allowing one breed of dog, that’s a smart call. I’m willing to ban anything from my rentals that causes 75% of the related deaths. (I also ban the other 4-6 breeds that contribute for a total of 95% of the deaths.) Heck we ban trampolines. And all trampolines combined only kill an average of 1 person per year. There’s just zero upside to allowing them.

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Steve RozenbergPro Member

Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

I think whatever you do you want to make a standard operating procedure and make it your policy and do not deviate from that policy we utilize the system of pets screening there’s a website called www.petscreening.com. It’s an amazing service to help exactly what you are talking about

They actually do a background on the animal (talk to vet and get records, call prior landlords to see if they damaged the home..etc)

They Give the animal a paw pet score of one through five and based on that you can utilize that to bass on whether or not you take the animal hope this helps

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Chris Szepessy

Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan, I agree. You can usually get a feel for how a dog was raised and it's potential behavior based off of the owners. I also understand that ALL dogs are unpredictable. I have 4 dogs, 3 of which are rescues. One of them (rescue) is a pitbull/cattle dog mix, so maybe I'm a little partial to them. I have zero problem leaving my kids (12 and 9) alone with any of my dogs. One of my tenants also had a pitbull that is now 9 years old with zero issues. This issue gets debated every so often and really should just be left up to the LL on whether or not they want to rent to someone who owns one. Insurance certainly plays a part in it and the LL can take that into consideration when weighing the pros/cons. My biggest problem with the whole thing is blaming ALL pitbulls and owners for the actions of a very small group. But, my opinion doesn't matter and is just an opinion.

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Wesley W.

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

Being a business owner is all about mitigating risk. If you want to voluntarily expose yourself to additional risk (based on actuarial data, not anecdotal evidence about dogs you've personally owned), then that is your right as a business owner.

The issue is that this breed comes with it an inordinate amount of risk compared to the relatively small benefit of allowing them.

You've heard the reasons people (and their insurance carriers) have for excluding them. I can't help but detect your personal bias seeping through.

It's nothing personal. It's just business.

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Brandon Hicks

Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

I personally witnessed my neighbor having her small dog ripped FROM its harness and killed as she was walking it by a pit.

I like pits...that said, I believe that a lot of people own them for all the wrong reasons. Due to those types of owners...I just pass in general.

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Brandon Hicks

Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

A Golden vs a Pit...it’s like me punching you in mouth vs Mike Tyson punching you in the mouth. I’m gonna make you mad...Tyson is gonna cave in your face. That’s the issue...they can finish what they start.

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Amy Beth

Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan. The issue that I see is if your homeowners policy has a breed exclusion. Some homeowners policies do not cover pit bulls. I would only allow a pit bull if my homeowners insurance would cover the pit bull and if the tenant also had renter’s insurance to cover the pit bull. That is our policy with pets.

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William W.

Rental Property Investor · south Alabama · Member since 2018 · 121 posts · 88 votes

7y

Pitbulls aren’t any more likely to bite than any other breed, but the problem is IF they do bite, its way more serious. When a pitbull bites, they latch on and do not let go until the job is finished.

I work in animal control, and to be honest I seldom ever see problems with the full blooded high dollar pitbull (Staffordshire terrier) that has the short legs and stocky build. 99% of the time the behavior problems I see are with the pitbull mixes that you usually see in lower income areas, these dogs are more slender with longer legs, and they are typically the ones used for dog fighting.

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Mark Fries

Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

My only question is who cares? If you love pit bulls then you should allow them in all your rentals if people have them.

And if I don't like pit bulls then I won't allow them in my rentals.

Seems like this is more of a question for the ASPCA or whatever it's called then on this forum...

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Larry Turowski

Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Brandon Hicks:

@Aidan Mulligan

A Golden vs a Pit...it’s like me punching you in mouth vs Mike Tyson punching you in the mouth. I’m gonna make you mad...Tyson is gonna cave in your face. That’s the issue...they can finish what they start.

I love this analogy. This is exactly it! Cats can be vicious too, but can only do so much damage. You wouldn't want a panther even if it had the same temperament as a house cat.

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Jeff Ronningen

Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 242 posts · 182 votes

7y

@Bill Brandt. You nailed it. Many people are attempting explain why, others are relating stories of wonderful pit bulls. But look at the data. The insurance companies don’t call out this breed for no reason. Pit bulls are far and away the most life threatening breed.

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PJ M.

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 174 posts · 124 votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

"Judge the person applying in front of you and the animal should be a reflection of that person."

The biggest problem with that statement is that dogs do have inherent traits and personalities. I love Australian Shepherds. Those dogs are very stand-offish with new people. Obviously, from the name, you can tell that they are also herding dogs. I live in a suburb with no farm animals.

I've had Aussies that were as friendly as can be. I've had Aussies that fit the "description" of an Aussie to the T. Raised in the same house at the same time by the same people. Who raises it only goes so far and it always doesn't overcome the instinct of the breed.

I remember when we had a kids party and the kids were running around out in the back yard. My one Aussie, who had the "typical" Australian Shepherd personality, jumped up and began circling the kids. He was herding them. This dog never lived on a farm and was raised along with another Aussie from the time they were 8 weeks old in our house. They were polar opposites. The other Aussie loved everyone had didn't have a typical "Aussie" personality.

Sometimes all the love and affection doesn't overcome the instinct that an animal has. As mentioned elsewhere, as a landlord, I'm not willing to take the chance that the dog has overcome its instinct. It's not worth the risk to me. My business, for me, is about maximizing profit while mitigating risks.

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Austin Mountain

Property Manager · Lancaster, PA · Member since 2016 · 72 posts · 75 votes

7y

It is simply not worth the liability. Tenant screening and placement is basically risk management and pitbulls are just too much of a potential risk.

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Anthony Wick

Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

Could not disagree with you more. The stigma against pit bulls is 100% earned. Insurance companies hire actuaries and pay them a great amount of money to determine what the risks are. They have determined pit bulls are a huge risk. My insurance company will not insure me if a tenant has a pit bull.

You can tell me story after story of how friendly they are. None of that matters when a pit bull tears out the throat of somebody. Look, the facts are real. They are a dangerous breed. Period.

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Anthony Wick

Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

@Aidan Mulligan

“Either allow all breeds or ban all breeds”. That is completely ridiculous. Hey, either allow all tenants or ban all tenants! Hey, either buy all properties or don’t buy any! No. You screen and you minimize your risk. Why? Because that’s what good businesses do.

Here’s what I know. My insurance company won’t allow pit bulls. I’ll never be sued by somebody that was attacked by a pit bull living at one of my properties. You cannot say the same.

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Explain the hatred of pitbulls

Explain the hatred of pitbulls

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2017 dog bite fatality statistics2