Explain the hatred of pitbulls
Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes
Explain the hatred of pitbulls
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7yStory after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
142 Replies
- 7yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Chris Szepessy:
@Aidan Mulligan, I agree. You can usually get a feel for how a dog was raised and it's potential behavior based off of the owners. I also understand that ALL dogs are unpredictable. I have 4 dogs, 3 of which are rescues. One of them (rescue) is a pitbull/cattle dog mix, so maybe I'm a little partial to them. I have zero problem leaving my kids (12 and 9) alone with any of my dogs. One of my tenants also had a pitbull that is now 9 years old with zero issues. This issue gets debated every so often and really should just be left up to the LL on whether or not they want to rent to someone who owns one. Insurance certainly plays a part in it and the LL can take that into consideration when weighing the pros/cons. My biggest problem with the whole thing is blaming ALL pitbulls and owners for the actions of a very small group. But, my opinion doesn't matter and is just an opinion.
How long do you interview the owner? Long enough to get a "feel for the" dog...just because in a 20 minute interview of the tenant (dog owner) you know that the dog is going to act just like the owner? In 20 minutes, how can you know the owner well enough to know their dog?
- Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, MS · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 16 votes7y
In my perfect utopia, dogs would never be in my investment properties. A good rule of thumb regardless of breed is to meet them. Some breeds can’t be allowed for insurance reasons, but at the same time I don’t want a Chihuahua that barks all day and annoys the neighbors.
- Verde Valley Arizona USA · Member since 2018 · 115 posts · 98 votes7y
Our problem is tenant applicants who claim to have "Service Dogs." Most of the time these are "comfort animals" another word for pet. The Arizona Landlord Tenant Act states that we have to allow "Service Animals" and cannot charge a pet deposit to cover their damage to the property.
We have one rental with pet door and have charged an increased ($50/mo) rent for this unit. Pet owners are standing in line to rent this unit.
- China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
Whatever you decide, you won't have to explain your decision to me.
You'll have to explain it to a jury.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
@Aidan Mulligan it is not about hate, but rather risk. I think pit bull are beautiful and amazing animals. I also think wolfs are beautiful and some people even have them as pets. Still in most places you can't have wolf or even dog/wolf mixes. Is it because people hate wolf? Not at all.
Every dog is a wild animal that was domesticated. Pit bull were originally breed for fighting and in some circles are even still used for fighting today. Most every America pit bull alive today can trace roots back to dog fighting rings in the 1980's and earlier. The pound has a disproportionate amount of pit pull and most come from unknown owners. Many show signs of fighting and neglect. It is horrible, but the reality is that it damages an animals mental state.
It is not just temperament that is the concern. People always use the example of Chihuahua and argue that small breed is responsible for far more dog bites. Even if that were true, Chihuahua bites are not serious. Most would never require any medical treatment and they would never result in death. Here is some statistics. Read the link for all the dog bit statistics and there is just so much negative against pit bull, it is really hard to deny the risk unless you are lying to yourself:
- Pit bull are 31% more likely to attack an unknown individual and 48% more likely to do it unprovoked.
- Attacks from pit bull result in higher death rate, higher hospital charges
- Pit bull is 2.5 times as other breeds to bit in multiple locations
- From 2005 to 2017 pit bulls killed 284 Americans, one every 16.7 days, the next most deadly being rottweiler killing one person every 105 days
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-quick-statistics.php#dogbite-statistics
It is not just "bad owners" that end up with dangerous dogs. That is just incorrect. In most cases when a pit bull harms or kills someone, it is usually a beloved family pet. Owners always say the same thing, that it was a sweet dog that never showed any signs of aggression. Then one day, either because it feels threatened or even a random event, it turns and bites. There is many stories of pit bull killing their owners or killing kids in the family.
Your argument that we are all suffering selection bias, meaning we are looking for bad news, is not supported by the facts. On average a pit bull is killing two people a month in America and no other breed even comes close. That is why the news disproportionately talks about pit bull, because they are the major offender:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
What makes these statistics even worse is that pit bull is a small number breed. So you have less than 1% of the dogs causing over half the deaths. This is why most insurance companies prohibit the breed. Insurance companies don't hate anything, accept risk. They use claims statistics to determine risk versus reward. The companies that allow pit bull charge more money, because they know it will cost more.
I run a business and if my insurance company says there is risk, I want nothing to do with it. For the same reason, I don't allow trampolines or swimming pools. I don't hate trampolines or swimming pools, I hate broken necks and drowning.
One final thing to consider is that for a renter to even get a pit bull is irresponsible. Renters know most landlords don't allow pit bull. For them to get one anyways, displays an entitled mentality or just poor judgement. With so many breeds to chose from, people are seeking out dangerous breeds for a specific reason. I don't know why, but it is not good.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Coldwater, MI · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 4 votes7y
I am a pit bull owner and I love seeing people's reactions when I have mine around. They act like he is going to rip their leg off, but little did they know he was hiding from a toad in the lawn yesterday. Regardless, I wouldn't rent to pit bull owners because not all OWNERS have them for the right reasons. If you fear that, have a weight restrictions like you would income or credit restrictions for a tenant. (Most "Dangerous breeds" Rotts, Pitts, Mastiff, Doberman, Etc.. all fall over 40lbs) Not worth getting sued over.
- Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Sure, the stereotype is there for pit bulls... but as you mentioned, there are awesome people rescuing them. I have seen both sides of the stories, and both sides resulted in bites, just sharing my experiences with direct people I know.
I have a friend (paralegal, educated, owns a horse farm actually), who was playing with her other friend's (paralegal, college educated, adored the dog) pitbull in a A-/B+ apartment complex. THE DOG BIT MY FRIENDS CHEEK OFF, she had to have I think around 100 stitches, and my friend couldn't be in the sun for 6 months. My friend wasn't hurting it, she was rough housing/playing with the dog. The dog's owner adores/babies the dog, treats it like a king, and never even apologized to my friend. My friend sued her friend and the landlord for $100K or maybe more for allowing an aggressive dog on premise. Do you think the landlord is thinking about how great the lady took care of her dog, and how this shouldn't have happened because the dog was well taken care of? ---- doubt it!
On the stereotypical side, we just did a cash for keys, because an inherited tenant's pit bull literately bit the neighbor 2 months ago, an aggressive bite too, on his lower abdomen! It was put in the pound for being aggressive, but they got it out because they want to breed the dog. They have 3 y/o kid. I can't make this stuff up! People want this dog because it's aggressive! Would you buy the dog knowing the father has aggressive tenancies... you wouldn't know if it's a cute puppy, and then if it's treated amazing.. oh wait, then you have to remember--- you don't know the history, woops!
Is it the breed, or the treatment, I dunno.. all I know is it's not worth the risk! 100% NO!
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Bill B.:
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
there was a good one in Vegas this winter.. Pitt turned on their owner for no reason ( according to owner) tearing up the ladies leg relative jumps in and shot the dog.. bullet goes through dog and into the ladies leg..
Pitts reputation is well deserved.. I had a friends daughter lose and eye.. My daughter almost lost an eye and now has a nice face scare.
not sure why but when they snap their bite is just dangerous.. and dogs snap.. I mean my golden bit my son who kept yanking on his tail
Why take the risk.. and I am sure there are lovely pitt bulls etc.. and for sure the stero type is real.. and you see it all the time in low income areas.. they get raised poorly then just let lose wondering around the neighborhoods. or I have seen them staked in the back yards in the heat and no water.. NICE tenants.. Nice people.. just clueless low lifes.. its sad..
- 7yAaron RobertsonBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Redding, CA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 4 votes
In California, we have had several maulings in the past and that particular breed of dog seems to be involved most often.
Authority Property Management Inc. 4.6752 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 92 votes7y
@Eric C. 🎯🎯🎯
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Bill B.:
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
there was a good one in Vegas this winter.. Pitt turned on their owner for no reason ( according to owner) tearing up the ladies leg relative jumps in and shot the dog.. bullet goes through dog and into the ladies leg..
Pitts reputation is well deserved.. I had a friends daughter lose and eye.. My daughter almost lost an eye and now has a nice face scare.
not sure why but when they snap their bite is just dangerous.. and dogs snap.. I mean my golden bit my son who kept yanking on his tail
Why take the risk.. and I am sure there are lovely pitt bulls etc.. and for sure the stero type is real.. and you see it all the time in low income areas.. they get raised poorly then just let lose wondering around the neighborhoods. or I have seen them staked in the back yards in the heat and no water.. NICE tenants.. Nice people.. just clueless low lifes.. its sad..
Interesting you mentioned loosing the eye, because one of the statistics is that pit bull bits are way more likely to bite in the eye/face than any other breed. They have a genetic fight instinct that tells them to go for the face. It makes sense given the breed was created for fighting.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Bill B.:
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
there was a good one in Vegas this winter.. Pitt turned on their owner for no reason ( according to owner) tearing up the ladies leg relative jumps in and shot the dog.. bullet goes through dog and into the ladies leg..
Pitts reputation is well deserved.. I had a friends daughter lose and eye.. My daughter almost lost an eye and now has a nice face scare.
not sure why but when they snap their bite is just dangerous.. and dogs snap.. I mean my golden bit my son who kept yanking on his tail
Why take the risk.. and I am sure there are lovely pitt bulls etc.. and for sure the stero type is real.. and you see it all the time in low income areas.. they get raised poorly then just let lose wondering around the neighborhoods. or I have seen them staked in the back yards in the heat and no water.. NICE tenants.. Nice people.. just clueless low lifes.. its sad..
Interesting you mentioned loosing the eye, because one of the statistics is that pit bull bits are way more likely to bite in the eye/face than any other breed. They have a genetic fight instinct that tells them to go for the face. It makes sense given the breed was created for fighting.
the little girl that lost the eye was just walking by the back of the pick up truck and the dog lashed out and caught her in the face,
My daughter was on the floor lying next to it petting it and it snapped.. she was very lucky.
But the abuse some of those dogs take from owners is just so bad.. the dogs really at that point need to be put down .. staked in the back yards with no food water in the Deep south. I mean the tenants just move out and leave the dog like that.. its one reason I just cant handle the landlord scene anymore. Not to mention what they do to the house :)
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 462 votes7y
Good tenants will own good dogs and take care of them. Bad tenants won't. I rent to pets in almost all of my apartments. I see it time and time again. The animal is the reflection of the owner. I have some super loving and loyal pitts, and I have seen some really aggressive ones. It all comes back to what type of person the owner is.
- Realtor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 4 votes7y
I agree that the stigma following this breed is cruel and unjust. As an owner of a pitbull, I am a huge advocate for them and believe it is in how they're raised. I do note that there seems to be a following to them of certain people for their "mean" looks which leads many outsiders to judge both the animal and potential tenant. I agree with you 110% @Aidan Mulligan that you should base your allowance of tenancy off your candidate and not off the animal. I will add that State Farm will cover homeowners and renters that own pitbulls and they do not charge a higher fee for the breed; just for future reference!
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Bill B.:
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
there was a good one in Vegas this winter.. Pitt turned on their owner for no reason ( according to owner) tearing up the ladies leg relative jumps in and shot the dog.. bullet goes through dog and into the ladies leg..
Pitts reputation is well deserved.. I had a friends daughter lose and eye.. My daughter almost lost an eye and now has a nice face scare.
not sure why but when they snap their bite is just dangerous.. and dogs snap.. I mean my golden bit my son who kept yanking on his tail
Why take the risk.. and I am sure there are lovely pitt bulls etc.. and for sure the stero type is real.. and you see it all the time in low income areas.. they get raised poorly then just let lose wondering around the neighborhoods. or I have seen them staked in the back yards in the heat and no water.. NICE tenants.. Nice people.. just clueless low lifes.. its sad..
Interesting you mentioned loosing the eye, because one of the statistics is that pit bull bits are way more likely to bite in the eye/face than any other breed. They have a genetic fight instinct that tells them to go for the face. It makes sense given the breed was created for fighting.
the little girl that lost the eye was just walking by the back of the pick up truck and the dog lashed out and caught her in the face,
My daughter was on the floor lying next to it petting it and it snapped.. she was very lucky.
But the abuse some of those dogs take from owners is just so bad.. the dogs really at that point need to be put down .. staked in the back yards with no food water in the Deep south. I mean the tenants just move out and leave the dog like that.. its one reason I just cant handle the landlord scene anymore. Not to mention what they do to the house :)
Very scary with your daughter.
I think there should be a breeding ban. Our Humane Society is no kill and some pits have been there over a year. It is no life for them in or out of the shelter. Go to any shelter and you can rescue one, there is 0% reason to ever breed this type of dog.
- 7yJordan MoorheadBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Aidan Mulligan my insurance won’t cover me if i have them on the property
The Moorhead Team5140 Reviews - Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
The dog that bites most often is a Dachshund. I own a pit mix. He is sweet heart. That being said. Property insurance excludes pit bulls so I can not rent to Pit Bull owners.
- Investor · Lexington, KY · Member since 2012 · 18 posts · 4 votes7y
1) No one seems to have mentioned that pit bulls come with a reputation. Even if pits were the safest dogs in the
world their reputation is the reason you should not rent to them. What your other tenants think is very important.
2) The type of person that has pit bulls has a TENDENCY to be more violent and fearful, they often use the pet
as a threat or weapon. Not the traits that should be selected for in a tenant. Similar to a person who carries a gun for
personal security.
I would also recommend to not worry so much about getting sued. So many on here wish to avoid all risk, which
is a huge error. Make yourself a hard target and be fierce but if you never "lose" you are leaving lots of value on the
table.
My 2 cents.
- Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes7y
I’ll explain it in 2 words :
human ignorance.
- Investor · Latham, NY · Member since 2014 · 217 posts · 65 votes7y
Obviously it matters how they're trained BUT It all comes down to statistics. If the insurance company won't approve it or charge a higher premium, I'll pass.
Insurance companies don't take into account "human ignorance" when calculating their risk.
- Rental Property Investor · Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2018 · 117 posts · 235 votes7y
@Aidan Mulligan
Some dogs are bred for war. Some dogs are bred for aggression. Some dogs are defense dogs. Some dogs are high needs discipline dogs. Some dogs are large. Pit bulls are the intersection of all of these categories. No different from Doberman/German shepherds/Rots.
Chihuahuas are much more likely to attack you than pit bulls, but do significantly less damage.
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
I don't have pitbulls but I would never allow one on my property. I get it - there are nice pitbulls who will live their life having never attacked a person. That is 'pawsome'.
However, rottweiler's, dobermans, pitbulls and even boxer dogs are as a whole, more aggressive than the typical dog breed.
I have a friend who is a court stenographer and she told me of every single dog bite case she was in court for each and every single case involved a pitbull.
Also, my brother had two pitbulls. And he and his wife always ragged on me for not being a fan of pitbulls. What happened? One day the two pitbulls fought and one practically killed the other and then bit my brother's wife and ran off covered in the other pitbulls' blood.
And finally, my insurance will drop my coverage on all my properties if a pitbull is on the property.
Listen, I love dogs. My next door neighbor in L.A. has two pitbulls whom I talk to from behind the fence and affectionately call 'the puppy sisters'. Heck, when one dug herself out and was in the street a neighbor and I put her in my yard until the owner's son got home from work.
But for the reasons listed above I'm not going to rent to anyone who has one.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Kyler Cook:
@Aidan Mulligan
Some dogs are bred for war. Some dogs are bred for aggression. Some dogs are defense dogs. Some dogs are high needs discipline dogs. Some dogs are large. Pit bulls are the intersection of all of these categories. No different from Doberman/German shepherds/Rots.
Chihuahuas are much more likely to attack you than pit bulls, but do significantly less damage.
I had a Bichon and they were bread to be lap dogs for royalty. He sat on my lap for 16 years, haha. I guess everyone is looking for a different experience with their pets.
- Rental Property Investor · Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2018 · 117 posts · 235 votes7y
@Joe Splitrock
Yeah, depending on what your goals are in having a pet it makes sense to have a lot of different breeds. I’d love to have an Australian Shepherd, but is never have the time to train them and work then like they need to be mentally healthy. That’s what people forget. Lots of these smart breeds need to be challenged to be good pets.
