Explain the hatred of pitbulls
Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes
Hello everyone,
I see something pop up all the time when talking about allowing pets on your property. Someone always says "Except if it's a pitbull, keep those away"
Now I understand that "dangerous breeds" can bring higher insurance payments and some insurance companies might not give coverage at all. I have an insurance company that doesn't have such a clause so I know that the company exists. Another reasoning I get is that the dog is a good indicator of the type of person. Generally speaking, you see a pitbull and the owner stereotype that follows is some lowlife that won't pay rent.
If a tenant sits down in front of me, has a 760 credit score, a full time job, no marks against him/her, and happens to have a pit, I don't see what people get up in arms about. The stigma against pitbulls is cruel and unjust. Judge the person applying in front of you and the animal should be a reflection of that person. If anything make it a requirement that you meet the dog first before making a decision.
My 2 cents, let me know what you think.
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
@Bill Brandt when looking at news paper articles of dog attacks there are 2 head lines; 'Dog attack...' and '...attacked by pittbull.' I can't remember the last time I read and article saying 'Man attacked by Cocker Spaniel' or even by a German shepherd though they both make it in the top 10 breeds for biting. It's the media.
That being said I've had 3 German Shepards, 1 pitbull mix and begal. None of the 5 ever killed anyone.
Fyi my rentals allow no pets.
If there were 100 dog owners (of which I am one, and have been for years...along with many in my family), all having the same breed of dog, and 75% of them bit someone and caused great harm, the 75% would never buy that dog again...and warn other about it.
The 25% would rationalize that because their dog didn't bite anyone, that that breed was perfectly safe...and the other 75% were wrong, and probably dog haters.
Its not hatred. The breed is aggressive; that is a fact. Anyone denying it is just delusional. For the most part, the problem isnt the breed, its the owners. I am NOT of the crowd that says its how they are raised. They have been bred to be aggressive for generations and generations. You cant stop that any more than you can stop them from breathing air. They are a dangerous dog in the hands of people who refuse to control them. I will not be within 100 yards of one, not because of the dog (which I know is an aggressive breed) but because of the owners who let them run free, lets them mingle with other dogs, lets them around kids. If you dont think temperment and breed type isnt bred into dogs, look at this video:
https://www.facebook.com/DogLikeaWeapon/videos/400883464031742/
@Aidan Mulligan I'm sure there are extra steps we can take during the screening process to ensure that the pets we allow in our rentals are not going to be a nuisance. To say that you strictly ban pitbulls makes no sense to me, because there are plenty of other breeds of dogs that can be dangerous to the neighborhood AND your property. (I've seen small dogs like yorkies chew all kinds of **** up and piss everywhere and totally destroy homes). I would say you or your property manager should meet with the potential tenant and their pet to see how the animal acts. If a dog is constantly trying to jump on you and disobeying the owners orders, I would say that is a good sign the dog will most likely cause problems. Any thoughts on this?
I am looking to adopt a couple of dogs. I have been checking the shelters in the surrounding counties for YEARS. They are full of pit bulls, probably 90% of all dogs in shelters now are pits. If pits were to mysteriously disappear from this earth, shelters would be out of business. No one wants them. Theres a reason for that.
@Aidan Mulligan Whenever I hear pitbull I like to reflect on the young lady who was eaten by hers in Gouchland last year.
@Aidan Mulligan Because of the countless tales of the nicest pit in the world turned brutal killer would be my guess. Most don't want to take on the risk of being liable for the animal, which they shouldn't be, but in the world today you can sue anyone for anything.
@Grant Rothenburger
Follow up, I know the landlord can be sued for a dog bite, but why? Let’s say I’m in a legal gun state and my tenant has firearms and shoots someone, am I responsible for that too?
@Aidan Mulligan I do have an insurance policy without breed restrictions so we’re all covered there. When allowing any dogs on the property, there is an increase in risk. Therefore, it could be a good idea to create an additional screening process for dogs, like a dog resume. Disclaimer: I do have a rescued 70lb pitty.
Great thread!
everyone else has covered most obvious points about the logic behind breed specific dog bans and best practices for dog friendly landlording.
One thing I have not seen mentioned, is that even the nicest well meaning dog owner can raise a killer dog by treating it too much like their child and not the pack animal it is. Just watch some episodes of the "Dog Whisperer" and you will see plenty of nice, well to do, caring dog owners that have dangerous dogs because they let the dog dominate them, and become possessive, territorial, and therefore, dangerous. The dog does not use enlightened human logic and conscientiousness, it uses instinct and training...if it is not trained properly it only has instinct, and if it is bred to have instincts of an aggressive dog...you could have some problems, even with the best intentions.
I have rented to dog owners and I have been a pitbull owner myself. The most common problem is not the feel good intentions of the owners, it is the lack of knowledge of proper dog training.
It is easy to spot a scumbag-gangbanger-a-hole-criminal-felon with an aggressive dog(unfortunately, almost always a pitbull) but, the real problem will be when those good tenants with jobs, good credit and kind hearts, are so puzzled as to why their perfect little 70lbs sweet pitbull baby bit someone.
Lastly, a question to the OP.
Are you running a business or political dog advocacy group?
Your job is to make a good profit providing a clean, safe, and well maintained housing unit. Your actions, while guided by well meaning principals, could create an unsafe environment for your other tenants or neighbors. If you want justice for aggressive breeds of dogs, start a foundation or donate time/money to a rescue shelter. If you feel comfortable risking your assets for a tenant and their dog, go for it, but the courts and insurance companies have already determined that you will have some liability, if/when something happens.
Just my two cents.
People keep bringing up that 5 or 10 different breeds bite people. But as I posted, 1 breed does most of the killing. Pitbulls are people killing breed kings. My beagle bit people like crazy back in the 80’s when it was just accepted that some dogs bit people. But she never sent anyone to the hospital, much less the morgue
Ps. The 1 year old killed last week headline did say Rottweiler.
@Isaac SInger
Probably the best post on this thread. Didn’t use scare logic or biased “facts” and that goes for both sides of the argument. Facts can be swung one way or the other.
I never even thought about the fact that being too parenting over the dog without training it could lead to this but that’s absolutely true.
It's the owner, not the dog, 99% of the time. Pitts are no more aggressive than any other breed - could easily be argued they are one of the more tempered breeds. I heard they were bred to protect children. People on the other hand, generally have zero idea of how to train and control them.
The problem with pitts, besides the owners, is they can kill a human.
I think pitts are great. Then again, I have cats instead.
I don't allow any pets. Simply too much risk on multiple levels. Want a pet? Go buy your own house.
The other reason I won't allow pets is because of the owners who treat them badly. In the hood they lock them in the basement to live in their own poo. Nope. Not going there ever.
@Grant Rothenburger
Follow up, I know the landlord can be sued for a dog bite, but why? Let’s say I’m in a legal gun state and my tenant has firearms and shoots someone, am I responsible for that too?
I'm not saying it's right, just is. And I do believe that has happened yes (unfortunately), didn't someone mention a cop getting shot and suing the landlord because their tenant shot them? I can't answer your question of "why" I just know what "is" and why people would be scared off from taking in a tenant with a pitbull.
Is it right? No. Do I know why a landlord can be sued if their tenant's dog bites someone? No. I just know they can be.
We could have another discussion on if the mindset and laws are "right" but that's not what you asked.
I wouldn't do it, but I don't blame others for having that restriction and being scared of getting sued.
My bias, I don't like pit bulls because many years ago one of my tenants pit bulls attacked me by biting me on the ankle. Judging how the bottom of my jeans legs were shredded, it could have been a lot worse. I don't allow dogs because they cause mess, damage, start fires, and bite. That said, I have a labradoodle in my home as a pet,
I own a bulldog terrier mix. I also own a lot of guns. My wife and I are completely opposite she hates violence. I believe in protection.
My pitbull is my second dog ever owned. I take very well care of and put extensive amount of time in training my dogs. My full bread lab was very easy to teach how to attack. My pitbull, was impossible to teach the attack command. He knows more tricks, more signs, very smart dog. Even though his breed is known for violence. He doesnt know violence. He was attacked by a husky/German shepherd mix one day walking and he never bit the dog once despite being bit 3 times.
Everyone is afraid of Taz (pit) because how bulky he is. It really angers me because if they take a second to meet him he is the most loving creature you will ever meet. The media destroyed there reputation giving us landlords a liability.
I have a tenant who own pits and I've been around the dogs for years before even thinking about letting the tenant rent from me. We are running a business and personal feelings can not interfere with our money making process. Do not take any chances with pitbulls and other liabilities unless you are going to stay on top of your insurance/protection. That particular SFH the insurance knows the pits are there and I call yearly to make sure they are still ok with the animals being there.
I know two lovely pitfalls, born and raised by a family who loves pit bulls. They told me they were once known as "babysitter dogs" as they are so good in families. My brother got a pitbull from a previous owner, and although he seemed nice enough if not a little shy, he lunged at my son and bit his ear. They kept the dog, and now, a year later, this dog who was great for their family, ran across the ranch and attacked and killed a calf. He had to put it down. I for one am relieved. I love dogs, but pitbulls seem predictably unpredictable.
Hi Aidan,
I'm a pit mom. Have had five over the last 20 years. Never had any trouble with any of my pits being aggressive towards people. In fact they are usually very people social. A few of my females have been more dog aggressive however. I would say to decide on an individual basis. I think as long as you are renting a SFR, renting to a pit owner could be fine. If you have a multi-family then I would probably say no just to avoid any issues that could arise with other tenants not feeling comfortable with the breed or other animals on the property .
@Grant Rothenburger
Let’s say I’m in a legal gun state and my tenant has firearms and shoots someone, am I responsible for that too?
No, because guns don't kill people; BAD PEOPLE WITH GUNS kill people.
Your analogy would make more sense if pistols leapt from their owner's holster unprovoked and emptied its magazine at a passerby.
The dog that bites most often is a Dachshund. I own a pit mix. He is sweet heart. That being said. Property insurance excludes pit bulls so I can not rent to Pit Bull owners.
Interesting stat and actually illustrates a point I am going to make.
Some of you have mentioned insurance companies and their actuary tables. While pit bulls might have a bad reputation in the general public, insurance companies could care less about a breed's reputation. They care about the cold, hard facts of what breeds have cost them the most money in claims/lawsuits.
If Dachsunds and fluffy toy poodles cost them the most money and pit bulls were on the low end of the payout spectrum, then Dachsunds and toy poodles would be the restricted breeds and pit bulls would not.
But obviously that is not the case. And, here's the thing. I'm not a huge corporation with access to years of massive data and entire departments of statisticians and actuaries. Not even close, lol. But insurance companies are. So if many of them say their restricted breeds are X, Y, Z. Then far be it from me to question their research and expertise and I will restrict those breeds also.
The vast majority of dogs, even restricted breeds, are wonderful animals and will live their whole lives never biting anyone. But I still wouldn't personally own a restricted breed dog either.
@Wesley W. I agree with you. The analogy I'm trying to make is that if you allow something inherently dangerous on your property it isn't the item that needs vetting, it's the owner. However, for some reason the landlord gets screwed in a lawsuit because the owner wasn't responsible for it's property.
I had to google this last night but the reasoning is that you as the landlord let something that is "known to be dangerous" onto your property and then someone was harmed because of negligence by the owner.
@Erin Anderson
Regardless of my position, it sounds like the two of you may have a interesting niche. Think of all the tenants that you could reach buy being proactive about saying you’ll take a pitbulls.
Not sure your insurance carrier or lawyer would be happy, but it’s clearly an under-served market
Maybe have all tenants sign waivers that release liability. Pitbull owners sure are passionate.
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
Where have you heard these stories?
Eric, if you had bothered to read the thread you would have seen the answer...
4 days ago it was headlines here in Vegas as a 1 year old was torn apart. It mentioned that 2 more vegas adults were killed last year...( I posted a link)
Then I posted a graph that showed 40 people were killed last year by dogs, 30 of them by pitbulls.
I mentioned that every time you pickup a paycheck at work, a pit bull has killed an American. They kill adults as well as kid, not many dogs can do that.
People are afraid of sharks that kill 1-2 Americans a year, they should be VERY afraid of pitbulls.
Ps. Another point of the article in Las Vegas is all three dogs had come from animal shelters and killed their owners or owners child. Can you imagine the outrage if the dog has been sold by a private person? They would be bankrupted.
Hello everyone,
I see something pop up all the time when talking about allowing pets on your property. Someone always says "Except if it's a pitbull, keep those away"
Now I understand that "dangerous breeds" can bring higher insurance payments and some insurance companies might not give coverage at all. I have an insurance company that doesn't have such a clause so I know that the company exists. Another reasoning I get is that the dog is a good indicator of the type of person. Generally speaking, you see a pitbull and the owner stereotype that follows is some lowlife that won't pay rent.
If a tenant sits down in front of me, has a 760 credit score, a full time job, no marks against him/her, and happens to have a pit, I don't see what people get up in arms about. The stigma against pitbulls is cruel and unjust. Judge the person applying in front of you and the animal should be a reflection of that person. If anything make it a requirement that you meet the dog first before making a decision.
My 2 cents, let me know what you think.
Agreed. I have three Dobermans and one Pit. All rescues, in fact my pit is a small dog therapy dog - she helps rehab abused dogs of the smaller kind.
Pit bull kills, or bites are going to get more looks than when a cocker spaniel bites or kills something. Our brains are engineered to look for what's wrong. We crave drama and we crave news that will confirm our biases, biases that the media and gossip helped form. The media knows this. Planes crash; however, the news only reports the crash. Not the thousands of flights a week that make it. I've worked with a lot of dogs, rescues, and have been around people whose only experience with a pit is what they saw from the news. Sometimes they let go of their conditioning, other times they wont get out of their own way.
I also know people of other color, race, religion, sexual preference, republican, democrat, Muslim, Christian, gay, straight, and guess what... People who formed their beliefs from stories and hearsay are missing out on the reality. There are people who hate <insertanything> who have never had experience. Or hate chihuahuas because they got bit by one once when they were a kid. Grow up. It sucks, but still that one dog, does not represent the breed.
Pick a decade, there's always that one breed everyone is afraid of and a bad name gets perpetuated. Pitbulls are the hot dog used for fighting, and others get them to represent some sort of masculinity. These aren't the type of people that brought the animal into their life to care for it or socialize it. As far as abused animals go, if you knew what they often go through, you'd understand the issues an individual dog might have, regardless of its "breed".
My pit gets the most attention when we are out. Just a couple of weeks ago we were at a well known park in LA and there were a group of foster kids out with a day camp. The kids were allowed to interact with the dogs. They were pulling on my pit bulls face, hugging her, petting, and she loved it and so did they. Not all pits are good you say? Not all are bad.
The common theme? People. Not only following fads whether it's getting a Dalmatian or Husky because of a movie or TV show, and it just sounded cool, but perpetuating the fashionable fear thing to be afraid of. Discrimination mixed with ignorance.
I screen the humans and the animal, I don't care if it's a golden retriever or a Rottweiler. I don't discriminate, I screen the animal, require registration - which implies current vaccinations or titer testing, spay/neuter, and I get a sense for the temperament. Training certificates help.
This reminds me of an old tale about Dobermans. It was said that one day they turn and eat their owners. If you ever cared for a Doberman, or ANY dog, you would know how ridiculous and medieval that sounds.
I worry more about humans than I do dogs.