Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes
Hello everyone,
I see something pop up all the time when talking about allowing pets on your property. Someone always says "Except if it's a pitbull, keep those away"
Now I understand that "dangerous breeds" can bring higher insurance payments and some insurance companies might not give coverage at all. I have an insurance company that doesn't have such a clause so I know that the company exists. Another reasoning I get is that the dog is a good indicator of the type of person. Generally speaking, you see a pitbull and the owner stereotype that follows is some lowlife that won't pay rent.
If a tenant sits down in front of me, has a 760 credit score, a full time job, no marks against him/her, and happens to have a pit, I don't see what people get up in arms about. The stigma against pitbulls is cruel and unjust. Judge the person applying in front of you and the animal should be a reflection of that person. If anything make it a requirement that you meet the dog first before making a decision.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Story after story after story of dog owned for years and years by The same family suddenly kills owner or owner’s kid. that’s probably most of it.
Who cares if you have insurance when you’re sued for a million or $5 million.
If you’re not making a boat load extra money for taking the risk, why would you take the risk?
A police officer is suing a landlord because their tenant shot them. If you’re responsible for that how are you not responsible for anyone that dog ever hurts? Are you going to court and saying “your honor, I didn’t know they suddenly attack” or are you going to say you didn’t believe it?
Are you reading every policy change they ever send like the one that says on page 12, oh, by the way we don’t cover these animals any more. Or when the claim comes in they say let’s see the letter of good behavior we require from the dog’s vet as specified on page 19.
Maybe, if you aren’t getting any decent tenant applicants that don’t own big dogs you could sell and find another neighborhood. Or charge a boatload above market rent, own it in an LlC, and mortgage it to the hilt. And just try to sleep knowing financially you’ll be ok no matter who’s killed or injured because you just couldn’t find anyone else to rent to.
Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 161 posts · 178 votes
7y
@Eric Carr Thank you for explaining what I've been thinking but couldn't express in the way that you did. That is the argument that I was failing to convey. 100 Likes for your post sir.
@Eric Carr Thank you for explaining what I've been thinking but couldn't express in the way that you did. That is the argument that I was failing to convey. 100 Likes for your post sir.
Stigma, biases, something you can't have in business - I'd also argue for being successful in life.
But you made the point already. If you're looking at an applicant, 760 credit score, great references, no crime record, job, solid rental history, and he has a pit bull... I'd say chances are really good that he also has a great dog. Screen them both of course just like any due diligence. But I'd say you described an awesome tenant
There are certain breeds of dogs that are very owner protective, others that have a history of being incontrollable. Pits are representative of high risk "breads" of dogs. Regardless of the owner they are a higher risk, not so much from the risk of attack, more for the extent of damage they can inflict. Small dogs are notorious for biting but are unlikely to take you down and rip out your throat.
I grew up with German shepherds as pets, had one of my own as a adult. Highly intelligent, easily controllable, great pets. Extremely loyal and protect of their owner/family. I would never trust any of our dogs with strangers. I would never rent to anyone with what is considered a high risk dog for that reason. Pits fall into that category.
I do not allow pets. If I did I would discriminate.
What I do not understand is why anyone else cares what others do. It's no one else's business who does and does not like pits. If you are a tenant expect to be discriminated against. If you do not like it either don't have pits or find a landlord that likes pits.
Personally I think any tenant that owns a pet is placing themselves intentionally in a position to be discriminated against. Get over yourself pit owners.
CPA · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2015 · 170 posts · 46 votes
7y
@Aidan Mulligan, I have a pitbull. She’s the sweetest most gentle dog. Very well trained, and great with our kids... but I can’t let her near another dog or she’ll eat it.
SOME of how the media portrays them is true. Not their fault, people bred it into them to be fighters. Of course the media over exaggerates their danger...
Anyway, having said that, I won’t allow bully breeds at my properties and I’m a bully breed owner. All it takes is one person to get hurt, or someone’s dog to get hurt, and you the landlord can get roped into a lawsuit.
I’m a responsible bully breed owner. I know what situations will put my dog in a bad spot, and avoid those situations at all costs. But do you trust your tenants enough that they’ll also be that responsible? I don’t.
Rental Property Investor · Saratoga Springs, NY · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
It really comes down to your risk tolerance, personal opinion and feelings aside if you are looking to scale the law of averages will likely not be on your side.
Flipper/Rehabber · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2018 · 70 posts · 10 votes
7y
@Aidan Mulligan all dogs have a tendency to bite. I work in the insurance world and the reason they don’t allow pits as well as Dobermans, presa canarios, wolf hybrid wolf, Rottweilers, German shepherds, Akita’s etc is because all dogs bite and when these dogs bite they cause way more severe injuries. So it not about temperament because all dogs can get aggressive and it’s not just about pit bulls being singled out most policies will state several other breeds
Investor · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 121 posts · 674 votes
7y
@Aidan Mulligan "The stigma against pitbulls is cruel and unjust"
Insurance companies are in the business of analyzing and mitigating risk. Statistically, pitbulls are 5.6% of the canine population, yet account for 75% of all fatalities.
There's a reason many reputable insurance companies won't insure a property that has pitbulls, and it's not "cruel and unjust", it's the fact that these dogs were bred to violently attack and kill.
Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2015 · 366 posts · 184 votes
7y
My insurance company would drop me if an accident occurred with one of the 12 dog breeds on their ‘do not rent to’ list. It’s just not worth it since there is a huge pool of available tenants. I might think differently if it was hard to rent out a property to a well qualified applicant.
First thing you'll notice is that pit bulls are by far the most common breed involved in dog bit fatalities. You'll also see how many of them were described as sweet family dogs who never hurt anyone before. Yet something snapped and they killed, including many adult victims. These aren't "biased facts". Sources are cited and you can find the original source materials.
I certainly wouldn't want to take on that additional risk. It isn't a hatred, it's a logical and rational analysis of the risk/reward equation. If you're a pit owner and don't like being denied a rental due to your choice of pet, then buy your own home.
Attorney · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 14 votes
7y
I know a lady that was randomly attacked by a pit bull and it almost ripped her stomach out. Also, my brother has had pits and they were super aggressive towards other dogs. I still like them generally though. .
Flipper/Rehabber · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
7y
I just love all dogs. But unless the rental market was bad, for all intensive purposes of protecting the quality of my investment, I’d rather not have any dogs in my rentals unless I had no other choice. They ruin the wood floors. They can chew on walls and furniture. Dogs are great, just not in my investments.
Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
The city where our rentals are located has a ban on pitbulls, so we don't even have to wonder if we should allow them. We simply tell renters that the city doesn't allow pits.
Last year someone tried to get a waiver for their pit, claiming it was an emotional support animal. The city shut them down.
Investor · Korea · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 3 votes
7y
Everyone keeps talking about their personal opinion of pitbulls. But, as a property owner, if a tenant has "Vicious Breed" and someone gets hurt, the victim can sue anyone involved and unless your renting to Bill Gates, the property owner has the bigger pockets. Pardon the pun.
So, absolutely a business owner should protect themselves from a lawsuit and ban vicious breeds. Banning breeds of dogs is not discrimination.
Regardless of my position, it sounds like the two of you may have a interesting niche. Think of all the tenants that you could reach buy being proactive about saying you’ll take a pitbulls.
Not sure your insurance carrier or lawyer would be happy, but it’s clearly an under-served market
Maybe have all tenants sign waivers that release liability. Pitbull owners sure are passionate.
Here are some other under-served markets: child molesters, repeat felons, drug dealers, people with evictions, etc.
Everyone is free to run their business as they wish, just so long as they are willing to live with the consequences.
If you think a waiver signed by a tenant will keep someone from suing the "deep pockets" landlord, you are in for a surprise.
Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
It's a stereotype for sure. I've owned several and can 100% say it is the owner not the dog that causes the problem. It doesn't really matter though. Insurance companies have stats and that's the info they run on.
Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2017 · 147 posts · 65 votes
7y
My dog was attacked by a pitbull in our own backyard once. I have a negative bias. However, I do think it is amusing that so many people know the stigma and how difficult it makes it to get an apartment, and they HAVE to have a pitbull. Makes no sense to me. There are thousands of breeds and people pick the most stigmatized one. I just think it is funny.
I have found that arguing with someone with deep held, passionate beliefs is fruitless. If there were pit bull friendly landlords that Love to take the risk to give the breed a chance, it’s no skin off your or my back, right?
Real Estate Investor · FL · Member since 2011 · 586 posts · 360 votes
7y
If you take away your personal opinion, media bias, stories, and/or experiences and just look at the statistics then you should be able to make a pretty easy decision.
Rental Property Investor · CA · Member since 2018 · 225 posts · 180 votes
7y
@Aidan Mulligan I would say because many folks have intentionally breed the dogs over the years for physical traits with some side effects. Maybe not side effects, as much as the breeders themselves have put the physical traits at the top of their list with disregard for the behavioral traits. What do I mean by this? I mean an aggressive dog that has physical traits a breeder likes is kept in the bloodline instead of being put down or at the very least not kept in the bloodline. I did a Bully Ray training several years back and pit bull was one of the breeds the trainer said she would never recommend because of that very reason.
I know there are good pit bulls out there, just like there are bad ones, but it is such a strong animal you better hope the tenant has one of the good ones. Personally, I don’t restrict any breeds, but restrict size due to the wear and tear a big dog can put on the yard or house.
PS. I have a red nose pit bull who is one of the great ones.