Unknowingly renting to illegal immigrants ......
Rental Property Investor · Midland, TX · Member since 2019 · 46 posts · 17 votes
Unknowingly renting to illegal immigrants ......
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Princeton, NJ · Member since 2019 · 45 posts · 114 votes
6y@Sean Tippens as long as they pay the rent and take care of your property, I don’t see any issues. They are, after all, believe it or not, “patriotic” or not, human beings just like anyone else.
They need a place to live, a place to raise their children. And trust me, they will probably take care of the place more than the “citizens” of this county.
113 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Midland, TX · Member since 2019 · 46 posts · 17 votes6y
@Courtney Shane ITINs ?
- Rental Property Investor · Farmington, UT · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 148 votes6y
@Sean Tippens there’s a lot of reference here to laws and potentially getting into legal trouble renting to illegals. All other risks set aside can anyone point to a single case where a landlord was actually charged with breaking the law for renting to illegals? I’m going to guess not. Please prove me wrong and share a link or reference.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
Some of you are turning this into an emotional or political issue.
Yes, an illegal immigrant CAN get an ITIN. But how many of them actually do? According to the Fed in 2016, approximately half of all illegal immigrants filed tax returns but a large percentage do so with fake socials and not a legal ITIN. And out of those claims filed, the vast majority did not pay taxes but instead filed to claim a refund, which is another illegal act. You're willingly entering into a legal contract with someone that can't be bound to it, can disappear at a moment's notice, they willingly violated the law to enter the country, and they are very likely to be in violation of other laws while living here...yet you want to argue they're the best tenants?
It's a free country and you can rent your private property to anyone you want. I'm simply telling you from a business standpoint that it's a bad decision to rent to someone that you can't verify.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 47 votes6y
Some of my best paying tenants have been illegal immigrants. We actually inherited them from another company, but they stayed with us for years. Never caused any problems.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Travis Guyer:
I've got illegal immigrants renting one of my houses. They're awesome!
They keep the place immaculate; they never miss a payment; and they're very kind.
I had a pretty good idea initially that they were illegal because of their background info they gave me. The SS# was for a guy living in Texas, and even though I was tempted to not let them rent because of that, I'm glad I did even though the risk may have been higher.
You believe they lied on their application and you rented to them anyways? Why even ask for a social security number if you accept a stolen one? Think about this. An honest applicant gives you their real number and has bad credit, so you deny them. A dishonest applicant gives you a stolen number and you you rent to them?
No professionally run management company would accept a stolen number. - Specialist · Oxnard, CA · Member since 2018 · 92 posts · 32 votes6y
@Eric Perdomo not sure about best tenants but they are up there from my experience. They even pay rent months ahead of time when they can! Who else would do that lol.
Of course there's some bad apples in there so sometimes it's about luck. It all comes down about doing your due process and homework on screening tenants.
- 6yTravis GuyerPro MemberMadelia, MN · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 5 votes
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Travis Guyer:
I've got illegal immigrants renting one of my houses. They're awesome!
They keep the place immaculate; they never miss a payment; and they're very kind.
I had a pretty good idea initially that they were illegal because of their background info they gave me. The SS# was for a guy living in Texas, and even though I was tempted to not let them rent because of that, I'm glad I did even though the risk may have been higher.
You believe they lied on their application and you rented to them anyways? Why even ask for a social security number if you accept a stolen one? Think about this. An honest applicant gives you their real number and has bad credit, so you deny them. A dishonest applicant gives you a stolen number and you you rent to them?
No professionally run management company would accept a stolen number.That's a good call Joe; I never said I had a professionally ran management company, though.
- Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 2 votes6y
Originally posted by @Sean Tippens:
@Courtney Shane ITINs ?
Yes, people who are immigrants illegal or legal will receive an ITIN which is like a Social security number but they do not qualify to get a social. Their credit can be checked with an ITIN and they use it to work and pay taxes.
- Investor · Quilcene, WA · Member since 2017 · 230 posts · 169 votes6y
I have had people I believe may have been illegals come to view rentals. I always give people a full rundown of my process ie application, background, credit check, employer check, and also ask that they bring picture id such as a drivers license, passport, state issued ID card. Amazingly, some never appear, some appear and never apply. This also works with people who are a little iffy since they don't want to submit to the background checks. I have found that serious renters will generally fess up to any issues in their credit or background. I have found that those who bring it up in the beginning have been great tenants and never cause me a bit of problems.
I vet everyone the same way regardless of race. I feel that I have done everything I can to be fair and thorough. Here on the west coast it is likely illegal to even ask if someone is here legally or not.
- Attorney · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 535 posts · 389 votes6y
This sounds like an issue that comes up when you don't properly screen your tenants.
- Rental Property Investor · Midland, TX · Member since 2019 · 46 posts · 17 votes6y
@James Galla Ive noticed when networking with other investors in the area that self manage, immigrants are are almost sought after as tenants.
- 6yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Courtney Shane:
Originally posted by @Sean Tippens:
@Courtney Shane ITINs ?
Yes, people who are immigrants illegal or legal will receive an ITIN which is like a Social security number but they do not qualify to get a social. Their credit can be checked with an ITIN and they use it to work and pay taxes.
That is incorrect. Legal immigrants do not receive an ITIN. Legal immigrants are able to work in the US legally and eligible to receive a social security card and benefits.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 662 posts · 1k+ votes6y
Ok, some of you will like what I am about to say and some including @Nathan Gesner most certainly won't.
I guess because I rent to Illegal Immigrants, Nathan says I am an amateur. I own and manage 25 units consisting of duplexes and a 4plex. I have been doing this since 2003. Do I sound like an amateur?
Now, I am located in Texas and we have plenty of illegals here, most are hard-working individuals seeking out a better life.
My rents range from $800-$1250 per month. Most of my tenants are paycheck to paycheck. I don't check credit, why? I do check criminal and past rental history and the ability to pay etc. I personally meet all my tenants and approve or disapprove them. When I meet with illegals they still have ID and I check criminal history by name and birthday. My software doesn't even use social security numbers. Checking credit for lower-income individuals will just tell you that they have poor credit. Ok, I live with that.
Some of my illegals didn't have rental history. Lived with other family or friends before moving out on their own. This is where my personal one on one takes over. I am a hands-on landlord, and I enforce my rules and late payments. My gut is usually right. In Texas, there is no law against landlords renting to illegals.
Why I like renting to illegals. Because believe it or not they try and follow the law once here. They are afraid of the law and do not want to do anything that will highlight them which could lead to deportation. So, they pay their rent on time, they don't create a lot of noise and they take direction well. They can be messy in the kitchen as they cook with a lot of grease, and they don't have a lot of Air Conditioning knowledge so filter changing has to be emphasized. My one biggest issue is that some tend to bring in other family or friends in with them to live. I make sure I cover what is acceptable in terms of people allowed to live in their unit.
Over the last 16 years of managing my properties, illegals have given me the least amount of issues. Most of my illegals work in construction, appliance repair, or restaurant/hotel help. I get to know my tenants on a personal basis and I give out Christmas gifts to all my tenants each year. Most of my tenants are long term (like 3 to 7 years long) and I like that. So say what you want but all my units are occupied and my turnover is VERY LOW.
Lastly, If I have hard-working people, who have the ability to pay, I care not where they come from!!!!! Cheers.
- 6yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
In California I believe law AB 976 makes it illegal to ask. I have inherited tenants that I believe to be illegal and they have been great tenants and I recently have rented to one that I placed that I believe to be illegal (they used ITIN for credit check). A little too soon to know if the one that recently met my tenant conditions (moved in Sept 1) will be a good tenant but I suspect they will be. Why? They lived in their last place 7 years and LL had nothing bad to say, they met my credit and income qualifications (for this unit it was 2.5X monthly rent), and their criminal check came back clean. I have yet to have a tenant that I suspected of being illegal be a bad tenant. I have had a few bad tenants, all of which I believe were legal citizens and all met my screening process. One of my worse was a minister with one of the better credit scores that I have rented to.
legally I cannot ask but I am unsure I would even if it were legal. I have my qualifications and none is "are you a legal resident?". My track record shows those that I suspect to be illegal have been good tenants while not everyone that I believe is a legal resident has been a good tenant.
- Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Some of you are turning this into an emotional or political issue.
Yes, an illegal immigrant CAN get an ITIN. But how many of them actually do? According to the Fed in 2016, approximately half of all illegal immigrants filed tax returns but a large percentage do so with fake socials and not a legal ITIN. And out of those claims filed, the vast majority did not pay taxes but instead filed to claim a refund, which is another illegal act. You're willingly entering into a legal contract with someone that can't be bound to it, can disappear at a moment's notice, they willingly violated the law to enter the country, and they are very likely to be in violation of other laws while living here...yet you want to argue they're the best tenants?
It's a free country and you can rent your private property to anyone you want. I'm simply telling you from a business standpoint that it's a bad decision to rent to someone that you can't verify.
Actually many do. Please tell me how would i verify citizenship? If they give you their state ID & ITIN, how would you know they are illegal? Should i ask for a passport? Then ask for a visa? Then check if they have an asylum claim or any other legal status? Anything else I should check?
I do a credit check, background, and eviction check. All that can be run with an ITIN.
This isn't about politics here. It's not my job as a landlord to do the federal government's job.
- 6ySteve O.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · West Caldwell, NJ · Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 65 votes
@Nathan G. Usually these illegal aliens are here to work hard, earn a living, send money back to their country. Rarely do they give problems like others. I’m sure they pay you in cash which is helpful for obvious reasons.
- 6yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steve O.:
@Nathan G. Usually these illegal aliens are here to work hard, earn a living, send money back to their country. Rarely do they give problems like others. I’m sure they pay you in cash which is helpful for obvious reasons.
We do not take cash. We do not want to be going around collecting rent. Most of our tenants use direct deposit (and we have many units in a class C area). We also provide a business PO Box address if that is the tenant's preference but fortunately we are down to only one tenant that does not use the direct deposit. Legal or illegal resident tenant, we do not accept cash except for the initial rent/deposit (we are meeting with them anyways to do the walk through, go over the rules, etc.).
> I’m sure they pay you in cash which is helpful for obvious reasons.
I do not want to speculate why cash is helpful. For me, collecting cash is a pain. There is the pain of physically collecting but also it takes more effort for the bookkeeping than direct deposit. if you had 20 tenants paying cash, it could take all day to collect the rent.
- Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 294 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Some of you are turning this into an emotional or political issue.
Yes, an illegal immigrant CAN get an ITIN. But how many of them actually do?
No offense, but it sounds like you are the one turning it into an emotional issue. After being confronted with the fact that you were wrong about illegals obtaining an ITIN and being able to verify them, you then changed your tune to 'its probably stolen', and 'they are likely in violation of other laws'.
There is a term used for painting broad generalizations of negative aspects about a particular demographic, and then treating an individual differently because they belong to that particular demographic.
Do some people file taxes with the wrong information? Yes. But so what? In the case of renting an apartment, there is verification in the form of background checks, credit checks, employment screening and bank statements etc. It is very easy to see if the person is who he says he is because you know, your actually verifying it! The IRS doesn't have the luxury of asking for all of this additional information, so it is easy to write a random SSN or ITIN on a hardcopy form and mail it in with a check.
Being in Phx I have undoubtedly rented to many illegal immigrants over the years. I can't be sure because I don't ask since their status is irrelevant to me. However I will say that the tenants that I have suspected of being illegal, have been far and away my best tenants ever. I would 100x rather rent to an illegal who can prove a consistant income history over a millennial with their 'emotional support animal' BS.
I have never, not once, had anyone I suspected of being illegal pay late or abandoned a lease without notice. They have always paid in full and on time because they do not want to draw attention to themselves. They don't come up with excuses of why rent is late this month, they don't give me the run-around, they don't ask for a million trivial items to be fixed in the house, they simply pay on time, every time. If it ever got to the point of an eviction, things could theoretically get very bad for them so they avoid it at all costs. While it is true there is limited recourse if they suddenly decide to leave for whatever reason, the same can be said about the overwhelming majority of tenants. At the end of the day a lease is just a piece of paper. Unless you live in a state that allows for wage garnishment, even if you are able to obtain a court ruling in your favor that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
The cost and effort to obtain a judgement, is almost universally not worth it given the small amount of money you will ever recoup.
However, if an illegal did for whatever reason simply up and leave (either willingly or after being deported), you would still likely come out just fine. You may lose a months worth of rent and need to re-rent the place, but in return you would likely keep the security deposit. Either because your state allows you to keep it for unpaid rents, or because you mailed a certified check to their last known address and it was never cashed, and therefor stayed in your bank account.Personally I will continue not caring about their immigration status, and you can continue to call me amateur. But one thing is for certain; I've always collected my rent on time.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
The original question asked if there is a problem with "unknowingly" renting to an illegal immigrant. Yes, because that suggests you've failed to screen them.
I'm not making a judgment call on people that rent to illegal immigrants knowingly. That's your business and it's the risk you are willing to take. I'm simply trying to stress the importance of screening your applicants, whether they are legal or not, and that there's increased risk in renting to someone that is not in the country legally.
Thank God it's a free country where you can decide to rent to anyone you want and accept whatever level of risk you want. Some of you can even accept cash payments to avoid paying taxes. Whatever floats your boat.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
@Bob Daniels yes, I misspoke about who can have an ITIN. You caught me. Does that invalidate my point about risk?
From what I can find online, there are over 11 million illegal immigrants in the country. Approximately 4 million file a tax return. approximately 50% of those tax returns are filed with a tax ID number and the other half are filed with a fake social security number. that means the vast majority do not have a tax ID and do not file taxes and therefore represent a higher level of risk.
One of the podcasts a couple years ago had a guy that invested in mobile home parks. One of his top demographics? Registered sex offenders. that worked well for him in his situation but it would be unwise to tell every other landlord across the country to throw caution to the wind and accept registered sex offenders in their rentals. You are free to disagree
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 2 votes6y
Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:
Originally posted by @Courtney Shane:
Originally posted by @Sean Tippens:
@Courtney Shane ITINs ?
Yes, people who are immigrants illegal or legal will receive an ITIN which is like a Social security number but they do not qualify to get a social. Their credit can be checked with an ITIN and they use it to work and pay taxes.
That is incorrect. Legal immigrants do not receive an ITIN. Legal immigrants are able to work in the US legally and eligible to receive a social security card and benefits.
You are incorrect. My husband is an immigrant and I have friends that are both legal and illegal.
- Rental Property Investor · Queens, NY · Member since 2019 · 28 posts · 13 votes6y
@Sean Tippens
Definitely check your local law. I remember reading some where that they are real firm with employee illegal immigrants down by you.
Up here in NY never had a issue with renting to them. Actually they are some of my better tenants.
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