Huge red flag, What do you think?

Investor · shawnee oklahoma · Member since 2017 · 194 posts · 148 votes

It's been a little over a year since I first allowed a specific tenant to move into my property. I let her know that enough time had passed and I would like to do the first annual inspection and asked her to provide a date and time that worked for her.

Silence, sounded like some kind of panic. Then she went into a rant about how we are supposed to be building trust with one another and I must not trust her. Then she said in all her years of renting she has never been asked for an inspection. (After I assured her it was pretty normal). She further went on to say, if she had known she would have never moved in. (It's right in the contract that we went over together and she signed)

She hung up on me.

What do you think? RED FLAG? ... what should I do?

Thank you :)

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Chad Gaddie

Investor · Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 85 votes

@Jason J. I’d put money on one of these four:

1) Unauthorized pet;

2) Unauthorized occupant;

3) Damage that she doesn’t want you to know about;

4) Illegal activity going on inside.

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Aaron K.
Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@David J. conduct your inspection and don't lose sleep over it.
16 Reply
Joseph Firmin
Rental Property Investor · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2018 · 974 posts · 645 votes
6y
Inspect, don't sweat it. But yes, red flag the person has something to hide... or is just displaying a highly alert victim mentality.
6 Reply
Amber Gonion
Real Estate Broker · Hugo, MN · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 596 votes
6y
@Jason J. All large Multifamily apartment companies I have worked for do walkthroughs every 6 months. It is not out of the ordinary. We usually find pet bowls, boyfriend’s clothes and belongings, hoarders, and smoke stains or mj usage. Other things that we find that must be addressed are leaks, bad smoke detectors, and electrical/fire hazards.
2 Reply
Chad Gaddie
Investor · Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 85 votes
6y
@Jason J. I’d put money on one of these four:
1) Unauthorized pet;
2) Unauthorized occupant;
3) Damage that she doesn’t want you to know about;
4) Illegal activity going on inside.
22 Reply
Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
6y
@David J. You have to inspect-for the safety of any other tenants. Including her; and it is your property. She may just be a hoarder or messy, or she is cooking meth! Who knows-right? Gotta' be done either way. All the best! Don't go alone! ;))
3 Reply
Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
Set the inspection or just show up at this point. That's classic language to try to deflect what they are hiding. In my experience, it's usually unauthorized occupants. There is no hanging up on the landlord. I would get an attorney to send her a pre-eviction letter ASAP so she knows it's either follow the rules or leave. Once a tenant shows angst at a very regular question and process, I worry about the upkeep of the unit.
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4 Reply
Aaron K.
Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Jonathan Greene assuming this is CA you can't 'just show up' unless you want to get sued
0 Reply
Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Aaron K. are you saying the law is that you can't show up without notice at any time for any reason in CA? I wouldn't expect to gain entry or force entry, but if a tenant is being non-responsive I would think you could knock and/or be there for maintenance purposes.
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1 Reply
Aaron K.
Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Jonathan Greene you can knock but why would you if you can't get inside? And I wouldn't want to test a court with a constructive eviction by doing that and have a tenant claim intimidation. You need 24hr notice for maintenance too can't show up unannounced.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Yes it’s a red flag.
“My insurance company requires annual inspections to maintain coverage”, drop required documented notice, and complete the inspection.
0 Reply
Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Aaron K. If the tenant hangs up on the landlord and is then unresponsive to communication to a forthcoming inspection, you aren't testing anything by knocking on their door to set the inspection in person. There is no chance a court would find a constructive eviction for showing up after a tenant won't respond to a landlord's right (and contract) to inspect the premises. You have to always respect your tenants, but you can't be scared of them.
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1 Reply
Aaron K.
Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Jonathan Greene You can try to schedule but I'd only do so once and on the same visit that you go to post notice on the door. You don't gain anything on a visit just to set an inspection date if the tenant is being uncooperative, you want to minimize visits so you don't waste your own time.
1 Reply
Nigel Guisinger
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 93 posts · 110 votes
6y
Subject to your local and state laws, post a 24 hour notice and show up. Don’t make this a bigger deal than that. If you are running this as a business, your business has policies that act in accordance to the state and local law and you intend on following those policies. The feel back from the tenant is irrelevant. Because one of two things happen. 1. You find no issues and move on. 2. You find issues and you resolve the issues that were found.
3 Reply
DJ M.
Realtor · Southeast Michigan · Member since 2017 · 232 posts · 180 votes
6y
Run your rental like a business. You are not there to be the tenants friend. You can only trust a tenant as far as you can throw them.
My advice to you is to shadow an experienced landlord and see how they run their business. If you are not willing to treat your rental like a business, you should sell it now, and cut your losses, as this will only get worse.
Good Luck!
1 Reply
Jonathan W.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes
6y
@Jason J. I mean yeah it’s not a good sign but it doesn’t matter. A lil too transparent you were
Reassure her the inspection is a good thing and that your there for good reason. Lol
Man just give an early notice and do the inspection when you scheduled it. Your right
0 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
6y
When a tenant hangs up on me then we have no future business together that is a person who has no respect for authority or my house . That is a deal breaker . I am 100% sure you will find stuff in this unit that you won’t like . Go and inspect now .stop waiting around hoping conditions change
6 Reply
Anne Smith
Steinhatchee, FL · Member since 2017 · 77 posts · 69 votes
6y
Did she sign a new lease? Is she on a month to month? If shes on a month to month, you could send her a notice for non renewal. Bet you'd hear from her then.
0 Reply
Anthony Rosa
Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
6y
Uh oh..now she needs the emotional support dog and some meds since you made her panic..lol.
2 Reply
Nicholas Zumwalt
Contractor · Eugene, OR · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 3 votes
6y
@Jason J.
Tell her that you have to do a smoke alarm test every 6 months, as well as, a water check. This assures that you get into every room of the house (or should, our local code is smoke alarms in every room and every floor) and then checking for leaks gets you into all wet rooms.
This shows her that you want to keep up on the maintenance of the house and her safety is on your mind without putting her on the defensive about you not trusting her.
0 Reply
BOB CRANEY
HIGHLAND, MD · Member since 2011 · 160 posts · 141 votes
6y
@Jason J.
Trust your gut on this odd reaction and start to circle your wagons. This type of tenant sounds unprepredictable and combative. Begin to document thoroughly every contact you have with her. Do nothing verbally that you may have to prove later. Post notice on her door with the required timeframe notice given. Take a picture of the posted notice. I would also mail a notice, with proof of mailing for your records. Make sure it says you are coming in whether she is home or not and will be there for xxx time period. If you are there and she refuses you access, call the police and make a report. They may not be able to force her to let you in but you have established your attempt to enter from a 3rd party.
I have had this type of tenant then claim I came in and stole things during my inspection.
If you do get in, make sure to take pics or video documenting any violations you find and immediately send notice to cure these violations. Tenants who react like this one has are not reasonable and have something to hide. I might even recommend bringing a 2nd person with you as a witness. Your job to find out what she is hiding
3 Reply
Kristine Turnier
Member since 2019 · 1 post · 3 votes
6y
I had the exact same thing happen. They were hiding smoking in the house, an extra dog, a cat, and three extra kids- all of which were unauthorized. Plus they put outside locks on all of the bedroom doors. We assumed they were locking the kids in their rooms at night. They stopped paying their rent after the inspection and they got evicted .
3 Reply
Noah Mccurley
Belfast, Northern Ireland · Member since 2018 · 128 posts · 56 votes
6y
@Jason J.
I would go ahead with the inspection. Her reaction would make me even more eager to see what she is hiding.
1 Reply
Sharon Rosendahl
Investor · Quilcene, WA · Member since 2017 · 230 posts · 169 votes
6y
It is your property, you stated inspection time frame in your lease. Find out what the law is. In many states, you have to give notice of entering the unit except in an emergency ie water running out from under a door. Give that notice and then go in and inspect.
Some people do get a little paranoid. My daughter got her first inspection notice from her apartment and called me freaking out. Once I told her that they were doing routine inspections and it was probably the whole building got the same notice she settled down.
More likely your tenant is hiding something so just go and do it and be aware of that.
0 Reply
Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
Hi @David J.
To me it sounds like you phrased it a little off. It was kind of "willy nilly". 'Enough time has passed", "For our first inspection" and then you asked "When is a good time"?
Couple points, she does not need to be there and you are not asking for permission, you are providing notice. I have found a very polite, yet specific notice works well.
Dear Tenant of unit 126 South Mainstreet,
We are performing our yearly health and safety check of the property on Tuesday the 13th at 4:00 PM. We will be checking all furnace filters, fire extinguishers and verifying there are no leaks under the sinks, tubs, H20 tank or windows. Please be sure that we can access those areas for a visual inspection. Additional items like handrail functionality, smoke detector and door locks will be checked. You need not be present however if you wish to attend or have a representative present, it should take no longer than 30 minutes.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
I like to provide 2 weeks notice for something like that.
Good luck!
7 Reply
Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
As far as red flag? I don't think so. Tenants don't like people in what they perceive as their sole space. I get it and I understand. However making sure they are aware up front is important. Maybe drop it to 6 months so all is not forgotten by the time you actually have one. Also be consistent. If it's everyone than make it everyone, don;t single anyone out for those things. If it's 6 months for building 1 then make it 6 months for building 2.
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