Trenchless pipe lining...is it worth it?

Trenchless pipe lining...is it worth it?

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes

Looking to get advice from other landlords on a "situation" I've found myself in. I have a portfolio of five duplexes with constant plumbing issues. Some weeks are better than others, but this week alone I've had sewer lines clogged in four different units. There have been feminine products found in the pipes for two of them, but even after removing those the pipes have still been clogged.

One of the plumbers I hired to who used a camera said that the cast iron pipes are old and have scaling and recommended trenchless pipe lining, which (as I understand) is a thin layer on the inside of the pipes that prevent us from having the dig up the pipes and replace them.

I'm wondering if anyone else has come across this technology and has any feedback. It's expensive (5-6k for a duplex), but seems to me to be a much better alternative to replacing the pipes as the duplexes are on a slab and would require jackhammering and other non-fun stuff.

We are going to be sending out notices to tenants to not flush anything outside of toilet paper or pour any grease down the sink. Hopefully that helps, but I still figure the pipes are too old and are going to get worse.

Would love any input.

1Reply
174 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
For that price, I'd investigate replacing the pipe with plastic drain lines. How "permanent" of a solution is the lining process?
See this reply in the discussion

20 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    A few things to consider, how many times a year does this happen?, are there are trees with roots growing into the sewer main? How much are the plumbers charging to clear the line per occurrence? 

  • Kerry BairdPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I’m likely to do the same, and replace or otherwise problem-solve old cast iron. Had a leak in the slab of my vacation rental, during Christmas week. Oh joy! 130,000 gallons should run up a nice bill. I’m curious enough about pricing for the cast iron.

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    For that price, I'd investigate replacing the pipe with plastic drain lines. How "permanent" of a solution is the lining process?
  • Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I used to work for a government agency and the trenchless technology was new then.  It was great to use because landscaping, walls and foundations did not have to be disturbed to do it.  That price seems high, maybe ask around for more quotes, or tell the plumber you have that you may be getting more quotes to see if he will offer a reduction.  

    The linings are not just linings, but hardened to better than the original pipes and some on the technology used pipe bursting so the lining expanded and burst the original pipe, making a larger pipe area for the flow, especially if the flow in the original pipe was compromised.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Smythe

    Buy your own drain snake

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes
    6y

    @Robert Goldman Recently it's been multiple times each month. 2-3 of the duplexes are the ones with the issue. I think roots are unlikely, there are a couple trees, but they don't appear to be much of a risk in my opinion. Still new to the area I'm investing in, so I've been trying plumbers. I was foolish and hired Roto-Rooter. They did a good job but charged me $500. I've found others who are in the 100-200 range.

    @John Teachout The impression I've gotten is that it's very permanent (to the tune of multiple decades) and can often be stronger than new pipes.

    @Max T. Funny you mention that. I've actually just purchased one this month. I've got a maintenance guy who can do it, so I try to go that route whenever possible. Sometimes you just need a camera and an experienced plumber, though.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes
    6y

    @Kerry Baird Good luck, I've gotten high-end pricing of $140/ft for the lining. I know I can get that down with a few quotes, but hopefully that gives you an idea.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes
    6y

    As an update, I am going to try to keep snaking the drains for the time being. This is a long-term investment for me, though, so I expect to use the trenchless solution eventually. High cost, but seems worthwhile.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Smythe

    Hi Paul,

    If I were doing this on a long term investment, I'd TRY one duplex first and see if it's a 100% fixed solution (does it narrow the pipe too much for a duplex drain, etc...).

    That way you are only out 1/5 the money if it isn't as good as you need it to be.

    The other factor in this might be each duplex has a different amount of rust (or other pipe problems) and one will be ok and another may not.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    not that this is a solution although for me I would do the pipe burst and expand the size this is quite common in our market here.  My brother in law in the Bay area does them every week.. as in some cities in the San Francisco bay area if the house is of a certain age and the waste line has not been replaced its mandatory to do that prior to transferring ownership.. nice deal for him realtors have him on speed dial LOL.

    but when I used to buy rentals and rehab and rent.. the very first thing I did was replace the waste lines while we were rehabbing.. its the number one thing that goes wrong in a rental. and you could lose good tenants over it.. no one wants constant plumbing issues.. so if it was not PV we just fixed it prophylactically so we limited our NUMBER one service call plumbing.  

    as stated above I would just start with one unit and keep going as you can afford it until all are done.. or if you can stroke a check now just do it all at once maybe you get a volume discount.

    PS out our way we ALWAYS do sewer scope as routine due diligence and if any pipes look bad we ask seller to replace prior to closing.. 

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    If you did this, would that eliminate the problem, if the problem is flushed tampons and baby wipes and grease? 

    Likely not.

    If your tenant keep flushing this stuff down the drain, then they're the problem. Granted, if the line is old, there may be rough corners and edges, that are more prone to snagging things, but overall, it could be that educating your tenants could be more important than lining. Let them know, if the plumber finds those particular items in their drain, they would have to pay for the snaking. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs re: sewer scope due diligence. Major lesson learned for me on that front. I now know way more about plumbing than I ever intended, and would like to not let this happen again.

    Re: pipe bursting. I just looked up a "how it works" video on youtube. Seems like a similar solution and alternative to lining. Any reason you think it is better? How does the bursting system handle 90 degree turns in the pipes? Seems to me like it would need to be a straight line pipe only.

  • Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Tampons can take months to get out if they flushed enough. “Scaling”.... it’s cast iron, it’s got scaling in about 5 minutes after it gets wet. Get a farmers in there and look closely, are there roots at every joint? How bad? Collapsed? Broken (offset) at any joints? Talk to your neighbours also, what have they had done if anything?

  • Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Farmers = camera

  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y
    Run the sewer cam for sure. Compare prices for trenchless, or your own version of the big dig to replace that iron with ABS.
  • Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 36 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kerry Baird:

    I’m likely to do the same, and replace or otherwise problem-solve old cast iron. Had a leak in the slab of my vacation rental, during Christmas week. Oh joy! 130,000 gallons should run up a nice bill. I’m curious enough about pricing for the cast iron.

     Hi, I am reading your post, I am confused as to what the 130,000 gallons has to do with the cast Iron waste line

  • Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 36 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Paul Smythe:

    @Robert Goldman Recently it's been multiple times each month. 2-3 of the duplexes are the ones with the issue. I think roots are unlikely, there are a couple trees, but they don't appear to be much of a risk in my opinion. Still new to the area I'm investing in, so I've been trying plumbers. I was foolish and hired Roto-Rooter. They did a good job but charged me $500. I've found others who are in the 100-200 range.

    @John Teachout The impression I've gotten is that it's very permanent (to the tune of multiple decades) and can often be stronger than new pipes.

    @Max T. Funny you mention that. I've actually just purchased one this month. I've got a maintenance guy who can do it, so I try to go that route whenever possible. Sometimes you just need a camera and an experienced plumber, though.

    Paul, tree roots can be from trees over 30 feet from the sewer line, the roots search out water supply and will enter the pipes and literally stop the flow of everything inside, there are many methods of cleaning the interior of a sewer line, one I liked a lot is the high pressure water cleaning, scaling is not the problem I changed a main sewer line for a customer after the cast iron was broken and literally stopped all flow of the line, this is an extreme case, one that I never encountered in over 24 years of being involved in the industry of housing and construction, many will try to sell you a big repair in order to make a big dollar, personally I would want to do a complete video inspection showing the entire run all the way out to the street main, I would want to be present and take pictures then if want to post the pictures I can better understand the exact nature of the problem and give a professional unbiased opinion, I have seen it all in my industry, one part of me is almost jealous of the companies that sell people big ticket items when in fact it is factually unwarranted but I am not in the business of stealing peoples hard earned money under false pretenses.  

  • Kerry BairdPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Robert Goldman, lol, it just means that plumbing is on the brain. I had to replumb the incoming line, and recently had a backup from a baby wipe that caught on old cast iron. I’m aware that the house is old, on the beachside where salt does its thing, and prefer not to cancel any more of my short term tenants because of plumbing issues...

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 60 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    It sounds like you have a user-related issue, and the old cast iron is different concern. New pipes won't fix people flushing random stuff down the drain.

    That being said, don't use trenchless for sewer drains. Go with plastic/ABS. A good master plumber can re-route the lines and do all the work from outside/underneath the property. They last MANY years and have multiple clean outs installed to deal with clogs in the future. We just had our sewer lines replaced/re-rerouted in our home, it took about a full week. Every plumber I consulted did NOT recommend trenchless for sewer lines, only freshwater. Food for thought. Good luck!

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    I would use trenchless as the last alternative . You may have a section of pipe that is trapped , so basically it doent have slope ant TP gets stuck there . Going trenchless wouldnt solve that problem 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.