Tenant won’t vacate due to health issues
Littleton, CO · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 7 votes
We have a tenant occupied property in Detroit that is coming up on the end of the lease with the current tenant. The elderly tenant has been struggling health wise the last year and has been struggling to make her rent payment. She is now late and needs to get out by February 1st. She is stating that she won’t be out by the 1st of the month. She no longer has a job and is on disability. Has anyone dealt with health issues with a tenant? Insight?
I would suggest a different approach. if you have a tenant who paid regularly in the past and is now facing hardship it may be a good idea to help them locate temporary assistance such as the State Emergency Relief Program https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs... You have to remember that in order to evict you have to stand in front of a judge and if you build a reputation in the 36th district court as a heartless landlord you will likely draw the ire of judges who can become sympathetic to your tenant(s) in the future.
Running a good rental business sometimes requires that you NOT throw out the baby with the bath water meaning sometimes its better to stand with people who have a track record of paying you but run into financial or health issues.
@Mallory Guerrero. I would imagine you go about it like a normal eviction get the paperwork rolling. Unless Detroit has a rule or ordinance about this and her health situation this isn’t a nursing home it’s a rental
@Jermell Shavers thanks. Trying to avoid eviction and get her out when her lease is up rather than when it’s convenient for her.
Tell her she's having problems paying the rent, so she's going to have to move sooner or later. You could extend the lease by one month assuming she pays the rent to give her more time to get help to move.
We have a tenant occupied property in Detroit that is coming up on the end of the lease with the current tenant. The elderly tenant has been struggling health wise the last year and has been struggling to make her rent payment. She is now late and needs to get out by February 1st. She is stating that she won’t be out by the 1st of the month. She no longer has a job and is on disability. Has anyone dealt with health issues with a tenant? Insight?
She is elderly so she is on a govt check... the govt doesn't miss a payment lol. She is playing you. As soon as she was a day late you should have started the eviction.... start it tomorrow, you'll feel much better.
You OOS Investors need to learn day 1 that Detroit tenants will F you in a second - they know the system and are good at it... old, young, male, female. You need to be ON THEM.
@Jermell Shavers thanks. Trying to avoid eviction and get her out when her lease is up rather than when it’s convenient for her.
Yea, she isn't leaving on her own.... trust me
I would suggest a different approach. if you have a tenant who paid regularly in the past and is now facing hardship it may be a good idea to help them locate temporary assistance such as the State Emergency Relief Program https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs... You have to remember that in order to evict you have to stand in front of a judge and if you build a reputation in the 36th district court as a heartless landlord you will likely draw the ire of judges who can become sympathetic to your tenant(s) in the future.
Running a good rental business sometimes requires that you NOT throw out the baby with the bath water meaning sometimes its better to stand with people who have a track record of paying you but run into financial or health issues.
I have some older tenants. One died recently. It can be very helpful to get in touch with family members to take care of their aging relatives. Get them on programs, move them to eldercare, clean out all their stuff. We have had all that and more. We have had family pay rent too.
I would suggest a different approach. if you have a tenant who paid regularly in the past and is now facing hardship it may be a good idea to help them locate temporary assistance such as the State Emergency Relief Program https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs... You have to remember that in order to evict you have to stand in front of a judge and if you build a reputation in the 36th district court as a heartless landlord you will likely draw the ire of judges who can become sympathetic to your tenant(s) in the future.
Running a good rental business sometimes requires that you NOT throw out the baby with the bath water meaning sometimes its better to stand with people who have a track record of paying you but run into financial or health issues.
I disagree 100% - this is a business, not a charity... succeeding in Detroit is VERY difficult, there is no time for weakness. As far as the judges go, know how to do a proper eviction and there is ZERO leeway for the judges. The judges are there to uphold the law, I couldn't give 2 ***** what they think of me. I spent almost 5 years in Detroit to develop the ruthlessness it took to succeed in this city.. I lost a lot of money in those 5 years. As soon as I wised up I made it all back and continue to prosper.
I would suggest a different approach. if you have a tenant who paid regularly in the past and is now facing hardship it may be a good idea to help them locate temporary assistance such as the State Emergency Relief Program https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs... You have to remember that in order to evict you have to stand in front of a judge and if you build a reputation in the 36th district court as a heartless landlord you will likely draw the ire of judges who can become sympathetic to your tenant(s) in the future.
Running a good rental business sometimes requires that you NOT throw out the baby with the bath water meaning sometimes its better to stand with people who have a track record of paying you but run into financial or health issues.
I disagree 100% - this is a business, not a charity... succeeding in Detroit is VERY difficult, there is no time for weakness. As far as the judges go, know how to do a proper eviction and there is ZERO leeway for the judges. The judges are there to uphold the law, I couldn't give 2 ***** what they think of me. I spent almost 5 years in Detroit to develop the ruthlessness it took to succeed in this city.. I lost a lot of money in those 5 years. As soon as I wised up I made it all back and continue to prosper.
I agree, except for the VERY DIFFICULT part.
I have to agree with the folks here saying to start the eviction process. It should have been started the day the rent was late. The next best thing is to start it today.
She's not going to move on her own. If you need the contact of a good, reasonably priced eviction lawyer, shoot me a DM.
Great suggestion, @Leroy K. Williams. You can be firm while still being fair and humane. Provide her with resources to help her (and draw the line there; you want to be helpful, but you are not a social worker either). Inform her that you will be abiding by the date of lease expiration, and she will still owe you the full amount of her lease when it expires. Be prepared to file the eviction within 3 days of the lease's expiration date (or whatever your lease and state laws dictate), and do not accept any money from her after the eviction is filed. That's super important, or you could be stuck with her for another month and forced to start the eviction process all over again. Good luck!
@Mallory Guerrero I totally understand you don't want to evict, and believe me, I wouldn't want to either. BUT - as others have mentioned, it's a business and we need to treat it as such. If you offer her support in the form of finding some programs she should reach out to, then you've done your part in being a more than decent human being.
Personally (and as someone who operates a property management company, I probably see more of this than most people will) I've incorporated a "not my problem" policy into my lifestyle because otherwise it becomes very easy to get bogged down by other people's life issues. This is a perfect case of "not your problem", and to be frank it sounds like you have been plenty lenient with the tenant thus far.
I think there's four options here, in no particular order:
1. Evict
2. Cash for Keys
3. Have her ask for help from her family if feasibly possible
4. Have her seek aid from the above mentioned programs
I know it seems like I am coming off like a ruthless jerk, but when you scale up this only happens more and more. What was once "just an exception" can quickly become "the norm" if you are not careful and calculated about it.
Good luck and thank you for being a thoughtful person.
Great suggestion, @Leroy K. Williams. You can be firm while still being fair and humane. Provide her with resources to help her (and draw the line there; you want to be helpful, but you are not a social worker either). Inform her that you will be abiding by the date of lease expiration, and she will still owe you the full amount of her lease when it expires. Be prepared to file the eviction within 3 days of the lease's expiration date (or whatever your lease and state laws dictate), and do not accept any money from her after the eviction is filed. That's super important, or you could be stuck with her for another month and forced to start the eviction process all over again. Good luck!
I'm sorry but this is a very naive mindset. These tenants have no money besides what they get on the 1st or 3rd... they have no way to catch up once behind and don't care about being held accountable for the remainder of the lease (that one made me LOL) due to the fact they are uncollectable. If you bought properties to feel like you're doing good and get taken advantage of thats your right. If you want to make money you need to stick to strict rules - there is no in between.
No one is suggesting he not stick to his rules.
I would suggest a different approach. if you have a tenant who paid regularly in the past and is now facing hardship it may be a good idea to help them locate temporary assistance such as the State Emergency Relief Program https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs... You have to remember that in order to evict you have to stand in front of a judge and if you build a reputation in the 36th district court as a heartless landlord you will likely draw the ire of judges who can become sympathetic to your tenant(s) in the future.
Running a good rental business sometimes requires that you NOT throw out the baby with the bath water meaning sometimes its better to stand with people who have a track record of paying you but run into financial or health issues.
I disagree 100% - this is a business, not a charity... succeeding in Detroit is VERY difficult, there is no time for weakness. As far as the judges go, know how to do a proper eviction and there is ZERO leeway for the judges. The judges are there to uphold the law, I couldn't give 2 ***** what they think of me. I spent almost 5 years in Detroit to develop the ruthlessness it took to succeed in this city.. I lost a lot of money in those 5 years. As soon as I wised up I made it all back and continue to prosper.
Respectfully, I understand that its all about income which is completely reliant upon collecting rent. Understood. The idea in this business has to be thinking broadly across time and not month to month. If you are a buy and hold investor you are supposed to be thinking about income over time. Many investors in Detroit get hurt thinking short term about rental income and are tricked into allowing the wrong kind of tenant into their homes because the new tenant has the first months rent and security deposit in hand. That "money in the hand" thing can be seductive. This kind of thing can lead to a few more payments and then the ball drops. Investors fall for this because they are paying attention to the wrong thing. Just because someone is paying you today doesn't mean they will pay you tomorrow and vice versa just because someone stopped paying you today doesn't mean they won't catch up and pay you tomorrow. The idea here is choosing the "right" tenant and then managing the tenant. Managing the tenant may require working them through difficult times. I am not suggesting you can do this with any and every tenant, but when you have someone who has paid on time for a substantial amount of time and then something happens to disrupt this, I would say that it is not a good idea to push them away as a first response.
In my first non-owner-occupied duplex purchase, one unit was vacant and the other unit had the seller's brother living in it. I knew he'd be a challenge. He was disabled and had been living there for free, for 10 years. The duplex, including his unit, needed substantial repairs. Just for some crazy examples. He'd been living in that unit for 10 years...with no drywall on the bottom half of the main kitchen wall. So no kitchen sink or lower cabinets either. The flooring for the two bedrooms? The concrete that was literally the top of the foundation slab.
I posted a 30-Day Notice to Vacate the day after closing. I also included some verbiage on how to get in touch with me and encouraged him to do so. While I don't normally offer "cash for keys" because I live in a landlord-friendly state, I felt it would be prudent in that situation because there was no security deposit and I figured if he was a little more flush with cash upon move-out, it would probably make his ability to move go more smoothly.
He was too upset and "shocked" to even contact me himself and had a friend do it. Shocked? Really? The property had been up for sale for a few months and he was well aware of it. But sure. You just keep on trying to block out the sun with one finger and pretending your gravy train isn't coming to its final stop. And then be "shocked" when it happens.
At any rate, I set up a meeting the next day with him and his friend. I have my "cash for keys" offer written up, signed, and ready to go. $500, plus either one month of storage or an additional $100, if he is out in 2 weeks. Or $300, plus either one month of storage or an additional $100, if he is out in the 30 days. Only paid on move-out in exchange for the keys AND the property needs to be in the same condition it was when I bought it.
They give me the sob story about his heart condition. That his monthly disability is only $560. And there is no way he can move out in 30 days. I asked how long he needed. 90 days, but he would try to make it shorter. Hard no, that is not even remotely happening. I'm a straight shooter kinda person and laid down the facts: I realize this will be a difficult transition. That's why I'm offering you money just to do what you are legally obligated to do. I want to make this smoother for both of us. But, make no mistake, I will file for an eviction on the 31st day if you refuse to leave. That's nothing but a lose-lose situation for both of us. I'll be honest, that will buy you 2-4 more weeks, depending on the court's schedule. But now you'll have an eviction on your record and you'll lose out on the free money I am offering you. My suggestion? If you can't find another place to live in 30 days, then take me up on my storage offer for a place to put your things and go stay with family until you can find another place.
Surprisingly, while his friend was obviously more on his side, I was glad she was there. Because she was a reasonable person and actually ended up being a good mediator. There were a number of times she was nodding along with me, especially for that important piece at the end. She told him I was right. And was already "switching strategy" and reassuring him that he could do this. That he knows he can count on her and their friends and his family to help him with moving and looking for another place.
In the end, apparently the "impossible" was possible, with the right motivation ;). The keys were turned over to me 30 days later. All his stuff was out. The place was in the same condition I'd bought it in. He ended up taking the extra $100 instead of doing a storage unit. I was happy to pay him $400 cash, wish him well, and send him on his way.
@Mallory Guerrero I understand eviction is not fun, but you should not delay. If you just hope the lady moves out, you will lose a lot more money. I bet your area has eviction service companies. Just Google "Detroit Eviction Services" and see what comes up. Call those companies.
You could also offer cash for keys, but don't do this in place of eviction. Do it along with eviction because if she doesn't keep her end of the deal and move out, at least you didn't waste time waiting to find out. You can always cancel the eviction process if she moves out before eviction day.
If you do cash for keys, make sure the document clearly states a deadline to return the keys. It should also say that any left items are considered trash by the tenant. The deadline for her to move out and get the money should be soon...like a week or so from now. Not a month.
The key is to take action. This is the only real way to minimize your loss.
To those who say this is just a business, you're probably young and can't possibly imagine being in this situation yourself. Something like this happened to a dear friend, who's more like an adopted aunt. She didn't retire until she was 82. She's now disabled, lives with her disabled son, and occasionally with her bipolar grandson who struggles to keep a job.
She knew she needed to move, but rents forbade it, and she didn't have moving money. Then she was late with her rent and knew she had to leave. She put everything in storage, and other than the few days friends put the family into a hotel room, she lived in a shelter and slept in a chair. A couple of nights, she slept in a car--at 83 years old! Thank God, she was able to find a one-bedroom apartment after 3 months, so she had a roof over her head for Xmas.
If you don't think this ever can happen to you or to a loved one, it can. It's the silver tsunami: people who have worked all their lives, and then they get sick and lose their homes. The Golden Rule doesn't apply less to us than anyone else. There are people who are old and ill, and while our money is sitting in there and supports us, that doesn't mean we should be heartless and not help when we are able.
In this case, I'd suggest trying a month-to-month while finding a senior agency who might be able to help her. Unfortunately, this has become a major problem, and there's a lot less assistance that you'd think.
There’s nothing wrong with sticking to your bottom-line business objectives but we also know that life can come at you fast. Ask yourself, “what has their payment history been up until this point?” – I know how debilitating certain health issues can be and that can have a direct impact on one’s ability to work, thus, impeding upon a tenant’s ability to generate income. Still, as a rental owner I’m sure you have your own bills that you need to consider. It all comes down to the relationship you have with your tenant. If this is their first month dealing with this kind of issue that's one thing... but it sounds like it has been a not so great year with this tenant given the health complications. If anything the tenant should be trying to work with you to figure something out but they sound super combative...
@Alex K.
I agree with you....if judges are going to JUDGE us
by how nice we are and how we provided resources, etc... to our tenants, why the heck have a lease?! Let’s just let anybody live in our rentals and HOPE they pay rent and abide by the rules. Either landlords are going to provide habitable shelter in exchange for rent or run a homeless shelter....pick one. I’m not in the homeless shelter business.
@Mallory Guerrero
Being realistic, there’s no consideration for health issues in a proper lease.
If you don’t approach this in a business like fashion you will be the one that suffers. You can’t afford to. Proceed and do what you have to.
Landlording is not a charitable function.
@Mallory Guerrero not sure why there are such long responses,,,,,,, its simple , EVICT! , keep it simple :) .
I would approach it from all sides at once. If she is behind on the rent, begin the eviction procedure for non-payment of rent. It's surely going to take time. Offer her cash for keys. Contact your local social service agencies and inform them that she needs help, may need to move into a nursing home. If there are any relatives, call them. There must have been someone listed on her original application. Do all these things simultaneously - while the eviction process is running, she may move to a nursing home.
@Paul S. @Mallory
I agree with Paul. So many landlords have good hearts and tenants take advantage of it every chance they get. Hand back the tenant her sob story and stick to your policies. Sounds harsh but turn the tables- will your mortgage company give you a pass if the mortgage doesn’t get paid? No. They will hand you a pretty pre-foreclosure letter. My point here is that yes you can feel bad for a tenant who has fallen on hard times- but it’s important to filter the situation to a non-emotional, stark reality. We have to pay our mortgages on-time and tenants have to pay their rent on-time or there are consequences.
@Paul S.
I have to agree again with “stick to the policies no matter what”
I invest in Augusta, GA and EVERY new tenant I place throws me a sob story at least once. I used to fall for them and lose money- now I don’t and make money.
I think Paul you nailed it on the head and I understand where you are coming from. These past 2 years I’ve had to toughen up and be very very clear on rules and regulations:
1. I am not their friend
2. Do not waiver on your policies (every time I have, Ive regretted it)
3. Have plenty of Pay or Quit, Notice or rent default templates on hand- those letters alone are enough to send the message you are messing around.
4. In every sob story situation I ask myself- what would my mortgage company do in this situation?
That helps me see the situation clearly.