Illegal immigrant tenants and lease termination

Lender · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 28 posts · 19 votes

Hello everyone,

I feel like maybe I’m being a softy, however I wanted some input from the more experienced landlords out there on how they would/have handled this situation.

So recently I closed and owner occupy on a 4-plex. The plex is occupied by 4 Latino families that have all been there 10+ years. I sent the month to month termination letter with one months rent (825$) and 3 months to vacate.

I received a call this morning from the tenants literally in tears and broken English asking

“why us?” And “we will be homeless, no where for us to go, please we pay more for rent to stay”

Needless to say My heart broke.

How would a professional manager go through with this?

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Cori Leste

Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 46 votes

@Dennis M. Ew. They are humans. Have you no heart, as obviously this new landlord does? While the law is on his side, we should all strive to treat fellow humans with dignity and respect. And we all need a roof over our heads. That’s the business we’re in - providing that basic human need.

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John Nowosad
Coloraado · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 8 votes
6y
@Luke Dilorenzo
If they're long term and paying market rent would you be able to get them to sign a 12 month lease?
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Corbin Jones
Rental Property Investor · Joplin, MO · Member since 2017 · 66 posts · 9 votes
6y
@Michael King I have wondered about this... how do banks check if the owner is actually occupying the place? And what if a person decides to live there part-time and in another residence part-time? I say this as a long-distance commuter.
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Keith A.
Rental Property Investor · TX · Member since 2019 · 236 posts · 392 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Cori Leste:
@Dennis M. Ew. They are humans. Have you no heart, as obviously this new landlord does? While the law is on his side, we should all strive to treat fellow humans with dignity and respect. And we all need a roof over our heads. That’s the business we’re in - providing that basic human need.

People that run meth labs also need a home as well. Do you rent to them with your big humanitarian heart? Renting to ILLEGAL people means you are doing it because 1) it's easy to exploit them since they don't have choices and/or 2) because of GREED.
Fluffy cotton candy cloud fellow human being type responses exist to cover the stink of the real reason people do it. Owning a business that promotes illegal activity HURTS legal immigrants, their wages AND the safe surroundings that all legal immigrants deserve.
You have no idea who you are renting to... but who cares as long as the $$$ is coming in. That is NOT providing a basic human need, it is feeding greed.

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Steve B.
Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Luke Dilorenzo whatever you do ignore the online virtue signalers, they are always generous with other people’s money.
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David Wurzel
Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 132 votes
6y
I just love reading these kinds of threads. You really get to know the REAL person instead of the facade they put on for business.
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Michael King
Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Corbin Jones:
@Michael King I have wondered about this... how do banks check if the owner is actually occupying the place? And what if a person decides to live there part-time and in another residence part-time? I say this as a long-distance commuter.

I know when I change my residential address the post office seems to notify everyone in the land. I'd say if you use a PO Box for the bank, they wouldn't get notification. Not that I think it's a good idea to intentionally lead the bank astray, but if his tenants "refuse" to vacate for him, and he can show he's going through the motions (which could easily drag on for that first year) to get the tenants out, then no way has the OP committed any kind of fraud.
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Francisco Lopez
Belvidere, IL · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Dennis M. How do you know they’re from Mexico? Please point me out to where he states they’re from such country.
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Melody R.
Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 80 posts · 75 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

Gosh, this response is heartless. Let's be kind to people and not assume we know their situation. How quickly one forgets that this country was built on the backs of slaves and immigrants.
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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
Originally posted by @Mario Am:
@Dennis M. You’re a ***** and its a shame that some people liked your comment!!
Not surprised though, real estate is controlled by many heartless privileged white people, my dream is to see more people of color to invest and show how not-so-privileged trashy people like you are.

Sorry you feel that way Mario . I guess your comment says more about you then it does About me lol Look friend ,I’m all for people of color ( isn’t white a color too ) to become successful entrepreneurs as long as they do it legally And ethically I’ll welcome them and wish them all the success they can get . Best of luck

Reagan and his amnesty program made legal residents of illegal residents.
In some areas, including where my rentals are, it is illegal to ask if the perspective tenant is here legally when providing housing.
My view is I want a good tenant and it is none of my business as a provider of housing their resident status (citizen, green card, DACA, or illegal). I do not ask (and legally cannot ask), and I don’t care. I care that they are good tenants. I suspect, but do not know, that 3 of my units have illegal tenants.
I also sympathize with many of the people fleeing tough and possibly danger in their country of origin. I find it reasonable that they are willing to enter the country illegally to have a better life for themselves and their family.
This does not mean that I do not believe that they should not enter illegally. I think immigration needs to be reformed. People fleeing danger should be able to escape that danger. We as a nation have jobs that Americans do not want. What percent of field workers do you believe are legal. I suspect most are illegal.
I wish the OP had not included that the tenant was illegal as I think it should be irrelevant to the right thing to do. The OP did the right thing and gave ample notice.

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Francisco Lopez
Belvidere, IL · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Dennis M. Also you might benefit from a history lesson to how the USA came to be just saying
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
Moderators note: Please stay on topic and avoid political or immigration debates. This is not the forum for that. Personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree, but no name calling. Let's all be respectful of each other.
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Alexandre Marques dos Santos
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 215 posts · 137 votes
6y
@Luke Dilorenzo
Looks like the bank requires you to live as you disclosed the property for living, not a investment typo. In an investment property, loans typically are a bit more expensive as it tends to carry more risk.
You could get back to the bank and check if you move loan to investment, if the bank would lend it and for what price. Then tou run numbers and see if makes sense ( living in RV and have it rented as well).
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Meir Greenblatt
Rental Property Investor · Houston TX / Tacoma WA. · Member since 2019 · 166 posts · 89 votes
6y
@Luke Dilorenzo
You can see if you can talk to the bank and convert the loan to a non owner accupency loan (sometimes you need to add only 2%-7% more down. Then charge them $100 more in rent and now you have a good cash flowing property.
It's just a thought I have it may not fit your plan.
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Ralph R.
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
6y
@Ahmer Zaidi. It’s loan fraud. He’s gone to the bank and asked for an owner occupied conventional loan. He has not taken action to live in the property. It’s not up to an attorney or judge if you violate the terms of a contract ( loan agreement, promissory note). It’s loan fraud if he doesn’t take steps to live in the house. Nobody can change that. I doubt the lender is going to be very forgiving if his excuse is he didn’t want to evict because he felt sorry for the tenants. RR
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Ahmer ZaidiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Orland Park, IL · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 16 votes
6y
@Ralph R. He is taking steps. He's stated he's provided a notice to tenant, which is the first step. As you know, tenants have rights and if they don't move, the eviction process will take much longer than the 30-60 days to move in.
On the subject of the lender, a majority of lenders will not take action if they are kept abreast of the situation. They are in the business of making profit not taking people to court which is a process that will take longer than an eviction.
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Michael King
Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Moderators note: Please stay on topic and avoid political or immigration debates. This is not the forum for that. Personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree, but no name calling. Let's all be respectful of each other.

I must have missed something. You mentioned me, my post has apparently disappeared. Last I checked, I didn't call anyone names, enter the political arena or suggest anything that could be labeled discriminatory. I was at work last night so I wasn't drunk. This is a mystery to me.
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Jon Parton
Flipper/Rehabber · Merrillville, IN · Member since 2014 · 24 posts · 7 votes
6y
Raise the rent and leave them be. They will never leave and you will cashflow that property very well. You will have no repairs either so I would not do anything. Ive had very good experiences with tenants like that.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Michael King:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Moderators note: Please stay on topic and avoid political or immigration debates. This is not the forum for that. Personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree, but no name calling. Let's all be respectful of each other.

I must have missed something. You mentioned me, my post has apparently disappeared. Last I checked, I didn't call anyone names, enter the political arena or suggest anything that could be labeled discriminatory. I was at work last night so I wasn't drunk. This is a mystery to me.

Any moderator removed comments are still visible to moderators and I assure you none of your posts have disappeared. My note didn't pertain to anything you posted.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Michael King:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Moderators note: Please stay on topic and avoid political or immigration debates. This is not the forum for that. Personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree, but no name calling. Let's all be respectful of each other.

I must have missed something. You mentioned me, my post has apparently disappeared. Last I checked, I didn't call anyone names, enter the political arena or suggest anything that could be labeled discriminatory. I was at work last night so I wasn't drunk. This is a mystery to me.

+1 on Joe's post above. All your posts are intact.
This thread has gone completely off the rails and next step will be to shut it down if posters can't refrain from personal attacks, insults to other groups and other such nonsense. The original poster asked how others would handle the removal of one family from a four-plex in order to fulfill his bank obligation to live in the property. Everything else beyond that is immaterial to the question and is fodder for some other website's forum.
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Michael King
Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
6y
@JD Martin @Joe Splitrock
Okay thanks guys, I appreciate it. I must be losing my mind. I try to only contribute valid stuff, but once or twice I did go off the rails a few weeks back. Trying to stay on the path.

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Marisol Quintanar
Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 0 votes
6y
@Theresa Harris
I would keep them as well
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Marisol Quintanar
Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 0 votes
6y
@Melody Rault
Yikes!!!
Thank you for your compassionate response
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Keith A.
Rental Property Investor · TX · Member since 2019 · 236 posts · 392 votes
6y
Here, I'll sum up this entire thread:
Paraphrasing the sensible people: you should rent to people that follow the law and are here legally. You can do background checks on such people.
Paraphrasing the others: Rent to them and exploit them since they have no choices and will never leave. Cashflow big on this property because they'll never complain and will probably do handywork for nothing. Tell yourself you are a humanitarian providing humans with something they need... it makes it all better! Your not greedy, you provide a service! And don't forget, the country was built on immigrants so exploiting ones that are here illegally or trafficked is justified.
It truly is insane what people will do for $$$ and how they will breathlessly justify it. If you think you are a humanitarian then donate to wounded warriors.
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Jon A.
Asheville, NC · Member since 2017 · 385 posts · 274 votes
6y
I would definitely occupy one unit of the property. If you are ever late with a payment or for some reason raise any concerns with your loan they will send an inspector and bill you for it on your monthly statement. The days of getting away with owner occupied loans and not living there have been long gone in my opinion. They will ask for copies of all your bills for proof of occupation. It is my understanding that the bank can call the note due at anytime for any reason. At the very least, your loan will be sold constantly if they don't think you are performing per the agreement.
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Bill O'Donnell
Rental Property Investor · Newburgh, NY · Member since 2018 · 160 posts · 117 votes
6y
@Dan Heuschele
I have a real question for you. How do you screen your tenants. I have a rental in a sanctuary city. I get applications from people who can not be checked for credit or criminal background they have no social security numbers. Cozy can't give me a report. How can they be screened.
This goes beyond our opinions on whether they should be here. How can they be screened.
Our eviction law, and the new limits on security deposits, make it riskier than ever to have a problem tenant.
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