This Proposed NY Senate Bill Scares Me!

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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This Proposed NY Senate Bill Scares Me!

Christopher Smith
Member since 2020 · 21 posts · 27 votes

https://www.nysenate.gov/legis...

The above bill is very concerning to me. I have diligently paid off most of my mortgage debt and now rely solely upon rents from my very modest portfolio of properties. How can it be constitutional to force landlords to *forgive* rents for a period of several months? How is this equitable? Landlords are no different from grocers, gas stations, doctors, clothing stores, etc. We all provide basic human needs. Why would landlords be required to give their product away for free and not grocery stores, gas stations or other providers of essential products? in NYS landlords have already had to deal with the sweeping overhaul of the landlord/tenant laws. Now they want us to forgive rent? Mortgage relief means nothing--the vast majority of my expenses are property taxes, insurance, water, garbage, and maintenance. There is no forgiveness for those expenses!


This is so extraordinarily galling.

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Larry Brown
Investor · Liverpool, NY · Member since 2013 · 18 posts · 18 votes
6y

I put this in another post but will post it here as well - 

Please write your senator (and assembly person) letting them know the damage this will do to your real estate business.

Below is a letter that I have emailed to my representatives as well as to all of the co-sponsors of the bill (note - I have deleted my numbers in the letter below) -

I am a small-time landlord (total of ___ properties consisting of a total of ___ units) and the majority of the income that I live on comes from my rental properties. I am deeply concerned about Bill #S8125 that suspends/waives rent payments for those tenants who have lost their jobs because of the current COVID-19 crisis. If tenants do not pay their rent how do I pay my bills?

Over the past three years ___% of my gross rents have gone towards expenses associated with my rental properties.

My expenses associated with the rentals include:

  • property taxes (__% of gross rents),
  • insurance (__% of gross rents),
  • repairs (__% of gross rents),
  • utilities (__% of gross rents),
  • mortgage( __% of gross rents)
  • property mgt (__% of gross rents)
  • other (__% of gross rents)

After expenses I would be left with __% of gross rents. This is what I would be living on as my major source of income.

Rather than suspending/waiving rents for those tenants impacted by the COVID-19 crisis I recommend that New York state issue rent vouchers to cover the rent payments of those impacted.

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  • Guifre Mora
    Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 874 posts · 355 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Smith:

    https://www.nysenate.gov/legis...

    The above bill is very concerning to me. I have diligently paid off most of my mortgage debt and now rely solely upon rents from my very modest portfolio of properties. How can it be constitutional to force landlords to *forgive* rents for a period of several months? How is this equitable? Landlords are no different from grocers, gas stations, doctors, clothing stores, etc. We all provide basic human needs. Why would landlords be required to give their product away for free and not grocery stores, gas stations or other providers of essential products? in NYS landlords have already had to deal with the sweeping overhaul of the landlord/tenant laws. Now they want us to forgive rent? Mortgage relief means nothing--the vast majority of my expenses are property taxes, insurance, water, garbage, and maintenance. There is no forgiveness for those expenses!


    This is so extraordinarily galling.

    I agree with you no differently than a grocery or gas station. But landlords are viewed as the evil enemy of the people. (stick it to the man). I hate to say this in this forum and keep it to RE and never mention politics but see the trend that is before us, unfortunately, this pandemic has given the (D)'s a perfect opportunity to push their agenda to transform the country. Why aren't taxes and utilities suspended for 90 days to help landlords? or better said "investors" "city/state taxpayers" We as investors help the pay for the cities & state taxes. Will continue to see this happen more and more. Yup, the beginning of socialism is upon us. 

    2Reply
  • Christopher Smith
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 21 posts · 27 votes
    6y

    To be clear, I have no issue with delaying rent payments and I want to help my tenants in any way I can. In fact, I SUPPORT the moratorium on evictions--I would never evict somebody during a time of crisis. I just don't see how it could be constitutional to essentially *take* my property and give it to others for free, which is exactly what this bill proposes. If rent is to be forgiven, then so should taxes, insurance, water, garbage, etc on a dollar-for-dollar basis. 

    Directly from the Bill:

    Section 1(a) states: "Such residential tenant or
    small business commercial tenant shall not and shall never be required to pay any rent waived during such time period."

    HUH?

    3Reply
  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    I am in Western Washington looking at the Pacific and terrified of that NY bill. I am prepared to do my part but don't like having it dictated to me. There is no consideration for private property rights reflected in there. The pendulum is swinging way too far left! My wife and I are retired and the rentals are what puts food on the table for us.

    3Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    ya seems like a taking.. ?  suspect there will be lawsuits over this one.  will take deep pockets though to do that maybe some of the associations you belong to will pony up and sue. 

    Govmit takes all the time though through land use laws.. properties can get down zoned and you lose value.. or they can get upzoned and you make a win fall.

    lets just hope and prey this is just a 3 month event.. most if not all landlords are not going to go broke in 3 months of no rent.  NOW the big boys with thousands of doors this could be pretty impactful..
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    1Reply
  • Christopher Smith
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 21 posts · 27 votes
    6y

    Well I for one need at least 40-45% of my rents coming in to satisfy the taxes, insurance, water, garbage, and basic maintenance, etc. This is not including the payments on my remaining debt (a modest amount). I live off the rest. I certainly could not afford for NYS to say "no rent, not now, not later" for three months for everybody. I wouldn't say I'd be broke, but severely crippled and with no way to recoup the costs (e.g. unemployment).

    Come to think of it, I wonder if landlords would be eligible for unemployment if they can prove all their income is from rent and are compelled to go without collecting it for three months?

    2Reply
  • Steven Lowe
    Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    6y

    All this is going to do is encourage more people not to pay their rent, especially the ones who are still able to.  

    2Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    I see a LOT of fires in New Yorks future 

    4Reply
  • Christopher Smith
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 21 posts · 27 votes
    6y

    Does anybody have any insight as to how feasible this would actually be? I imagine massive lawsuits, particularly after the extraordinary concessions we were all forced to make last year in NYS.

    0Reply
  • Nik Moushon
    Architect · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 843 posts · 907 votes
    6y

    I've never understood how people in government think that all landlords just have piles of cash stored under our mattresses. 

    They have no problem seeing that other businesses have debt and need help but somehow landlords not count as a business and that everything we own is debt free. If they can be willy nilly about pushing off rents (be that delayed payments or completely forgiven) why cant they do that for our mortgages? Are they really not able to connect the dots that if us landords go into foreclosure the tenants still loose the home they are renting....

    And when us small landlords have to foreclose in mass, flooding the market with rentals, that it will usher in a market similar to '08? So that the bigger company landlords just get to come in and buy even more properties...just like in '08. 

    Now I don't think it will get to that. BUT if laws like this do get passed, especially in mass, then yes, things will get very bad very quickly. 

    2Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Once it starts , what will be next ?  It opens the door to give free rent for any reason .  A great way to buy votes with all the landlords money 

    2Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Smith:

    Does anybody have any insight as to how feasible this would actually be? I imagine massive lawsuits, particularly after the extraordinary concessions we were all forced to make last year in NYS.

     I'm wondering if it's even constitutional, requiring a segment of the population to provide a service without any compensation.

    2Reply
  • Larry Brown
    Investor · Liverpool, NY · Member since 2013 · 18 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    I put this in another post but will post it here as well - 

    Please write your senator (and assembly person) letting them know the damage this will do to your real estate business.

    Below is a letter that I have emailed to my representatives as well as to all of the co-sponsors of the bill (note - I have deleted my numbers in the letter below) -

    I am a small-time landlord (total of ___ properties consisting of a total of ___ units) and the majority of the income that I live on comes from my rental properties. I am deeply concerned about Bill #S8125 that suspends/waives rent payments for those tenants who have lost their jobs because of the current COVID-19 crisis. If tenants do not pay their rent how do I pay my bills?

    Over the past three years ___% of my gross rents have gone towards expenses associated with my rental properties.

    My expenses associated with the rentals include:

    • property taxes (__% of gross rents),
    • insurance (__% of gross rents),
    • repairs (__% of gross rents),
    • utilities (__% of gross rents),
    • mortgage( __% of gross rents)
    • property mgt (__% of gross rents)
    • other (__% of gross rents)

    After expenses I would be left with __% of gross rents. This is what I would be living on as my major source of income.

    Rather than suspending/waiving rents for those tenants impacted by the COVID-19 crisis I recommend that New York state issue rent vouchers to cover the rent payments of those impacted.

    5Reply
  • William Coet
    Lititz, PA · Member since 2013 · 595 posts · 272 votes
    6y

    Absloutely do as @Larry Brown suggested and contact your representatives.  Also contact ALL NYS landlord associations.  This is an illegal taking of property and subjugation of citizens.  They do not have a right to deny your livelihood. 

    Everyone who is effected by this must contact their representatives.

    1Reply
  • Peter Wolszczak
    Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Clicked and opposed the bill!

    1Reply
  • Peter Wolszczak
    Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Btw....another version of the bill is also under consideration.


    https://www.nysenate.gov/legis...

    0Reply
  • Larry Turowski
    Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    We really need everyone to oppose this bill. I also contacted my banker for deferments, not because I need it, but I need them to step up and oppose this too. 

    Here was my personal message when opposing:

    This is terribly thought out. About 15% of my rents are my earnings. About 30% goes to mortgages and 55% goes to maintenance, taxes, utilities (several of my units come with utils which I pay), water, seasonal maintenance, And insurance.

    As a full time landlord, this bill would not only take away ALL my income, but would leave 55% of my bills remaining.

    This will be economically devastating to me and many like me.

    It unconscionable that government would foist responsibility for social services on landlords. We hardly have the pockets to take over for the government and many could be bankrupted by this.

    2Reply
  • William Coet
    Lititz, PA · Member since 2013 · 595 posts · 272 votes
    6y

    Unless the government is prepared to pay the complete rent payments they are denying property owners income and their ability to pay their living expenses. Despite property ownership and management being a full-time job for many, landlords are not eligible for unemployment benefits! 

    People who have lost their jobs are eligible for unemployment benefits.  In fact, NPR just ran an article stating that many average payed workers will be earning more while not working with the combination of unemployment insurance, plus the "enhanced unemployment" payments of $600/week, and the stimulus checks!

    Click on the link and vote nay and absolutely send emails off to the senators (email addresses available on the link).!  There is also a public comment section at the bottom of the page.

    0Reply
  • Cory Finniss
    Rental Property Investor · Raleigh NC · Member since 2015 · 90 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    I was right in the midsle of an eviction.

    Now this POS gets another 3 months for nothing. I can not take any mkre abuse from this state.

    It's no wonder people are leaving by the thousands.

    0Reply
  • William Coet
    Lititz, PA · Member since 2013 · 595 posts · 272 votes
    6y


    @Christopher Smith  Just checking in to see if you went on the NY Senate website and voted Nay as well as emailed the sponsoring State Senator and your local State Senator.

    It is also a good idea to email all State Senators that co-sponsored the bill.

    Explain that your income will be taken away!

    0Reply
  • William Coet
    Lititz, PA · Member since 2013 · 595 posts · 272 votes
    6y

    Anyone who has a loan should contact their lender and inform them of the proposed bill.  The bank may be inclined to get an attorney involved to help stop this, or at the very least send some emails and/or make some phone calls to representatives.  

    0Reply
  • Marlen Weber
    Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes
    6y

    @Christopher Smith I agree with you, though I highly doubt that the bill will pass. In order for this to work, all parties would have to be in agreement, including banks. Rent being waved to the tenant still requires the home owner to pay the bank. I don't see how this would work successfully. 

    0Reply
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