Tenant Moving In Now Has A Roommate
Justin JohnsonPro Member
Fort Smith, AR · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 70 votesTenant Moving In Now Has A Roommate
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Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes
6yJust curious, did you do a thorough background check on the original tenant? By this I mean credit check, current employer and length of employment if possible (last 4 pay stubs usually works adequately for me), previous landlords (don't use reference phone numbers check them yourself by looking up the address and getting the person's contact information from publicly available sources - if they're renting they may have something listed currently or in the past. I never trust tenants to give me good info on previous LL's after I escaped a scam someone tried to run on me.), etc. Maybe even stop past their current address and see what situation they have going on there. A drive-by at various times may be fruitful. While I would be cautious here given how things developed, I would think that if you have done all of the relevant background research on the original applicant and he met your criteria (3x the rent plus the stuff I mentioned above - you'll need standards so you can treat everybody the same) then it wouldn't matter if he added someone else as his income and credibility should sufficiently cover. What you are mostly worried about is adding a second tenant that would be a problem, thus, all the background stuff needs to happen before the move in. Do not allow them to rush you. The background is complete when it is complete and neither tenant will be given a key until it is. He changed the parameters and you have your process. If he feels like it is a problem he can go find some other apartment/house. I don't mean to sound cruel, but when people are trying to rush me b/c of poor planning on their part it is a red flag and I'm less inclined to be open-minded. In this situation, I would look very hard as he is starting off changing things and I think this could lead to trouble later. I don't like trouble. I want very few problems with my tenants. If it starts bad it is likely to end badly in my mind. Honestly, I'd want to say no to both of them, but my wife would likely have to talk me down to something more reasonable. I can be a bit over-reactive at times.
Good luck.
32 Replies
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
The fact that he has a 'roommate' and her two kids and she's the one paying the rent, but didn't see the house or put her name on the lease would send up red flags. If the check doesn't come back clean, I'd keep the deposit and find another tenant.
Make sure the lease states that they are both responsible for the rent should they split up. I'd also get the ages of the kids. I'd keep an eye on them if they do move in and do inspections every 3-4 months.
- Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes6y
Just curious, did you do a thorough background check on the original tenant? By this I mean credit check, current employer and length of employment if possible (last 4 pay stubs usually works adequately for me), previous landlords (don't use reference phone numbers check them yourself by looking up the address and getting the person's contact information from publicly available sources - if they're renting they may have something listed currently or in the past. I never trust tenants to give me good info on previous LL's after I escaped a scam someone tried to run on me.), etc. Maybe even stop past their current address and see what situation they have going on there. A drive-by at various times may be fruitful. While I would be cautious here given how things developed, I would think that if you have done all of the relevant background research on the original applicant and he met your criteria (3x the rent plus the stuff I mentioned above - you'll need standards so you can treat everybody the same) then it wouldn't matter if he added someone else as his income and credibility should sufficiently cover. What you are mostly worried about is adding a second tenant that would be a problem, thus, all the background stuff needs to happen before the move in. Do not allow them to rush you. The background is complete when it is complete and neither tenant will be given a key until it is. He changed the parameters and you have your process. If he feels like it is a problem he can go find some other apartment/house. I don't mean to sound cruel, but when people are trying to rush me b/c of poor planning on their part it is a red flag and I'm less inclined to be open-minded. In this situation, I would look very hard as he is starting off changing things and I think this could lead to trouble later. I don't like trouble. I want very few problems with my tenants. If it starts bad it is likely to end badly in my mind. Honestly, I'd want to say no to both of them, but my wife would likely have to talk me down to something more reasonable. I can be a bit over-reactive at times.
Good luck.
- Fort Smith, AR · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 70 votes6y
@Theresa Harris he would be paying the rent, but from time to time she would pay him a little to stay here with him. So, even though we have already signed a lease agreement between myself and the original tenant, I could still say "nope, sorry, find another place"? This is what has me in a wad right now. Even after we signed it, I can cancel it?
@David Clay I did all of the background checks and credit and he came out good, that is why I accepted HIM. Yesterday he comes and tells me that he's going to have a roommate that will pay him rent, but he can cover the rent himself, she would just pay him a little. His income, verified, will cover everything; however, the lease that we have signed already states that he, the "Resident along with the following other Occupants: *None* being all the allowed and
authorized Residents and Occupants of the Premises" as well as my hard pass on sub-letting: "This Lease may not be assigned by Resident nor can Resident sub-let the Premises (including temporary or vacation rentals to third parties)." I am in the same boat with you about this and just wanting to say "NO" to both of them at this point. 2 weeks you could've come to me and say "hey, I have a roommate", not 3 days before.
I am taking my time and trying to be cool headed, but I'm leaning very heavily towards just pulling the plug on this deal! - Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes6y
Just a clarification, he's not subleasing if he is still living there. He has a roommate in the current arrangement. I'm on the same page with you though like I said earlier. He could be in the process of helping someone in need of help. The problem for you is if you let that person in you can't get them out.
As for the lease, you can't just cancel it. He is trying to make a substantive change and you can say that you don't approve of the change and he can accept the lease or walk away with whatever penalties you specify in the lease (loss of deposit or whatever it is) or just let him walk. Be sure that you have a clause that clearly indicates that visitors can stay for X number of days and that any stay longer than that requires LL approval. This will eliminate the possibility that he brings her in under the radar (do drive-bys frequently IMO).
Probably best to just walk away and find a reason to deny, but I can't say that's the best thing to do necessarily. If he was good before he should be good now. Maybe look at it the situation as if they were a couple. Would it matter that they had two kids then? Etc. Good luck. I hope it turns out well for you.
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
You signed a lease with him and it says no subletting...I'm guessing it also says something about no roommates. The problem is if he leaves and she stays.
I wouldn't count a person and their two kids as a roommate for a single guy. There is more to the story that he's not telling. You have a lease between him and you, if she moves in (and pays him from time to time-that is subletting in a way) he's in violation of the lease. Read the lease if it is a standard one to make sure it says nothing about roommates or long term guests.
- Fort Smith, AR · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 70 votes6y
Thanks, @David Clay, I have no problem with roommates or them having children, but the fact that it is last minute. Drive-bys? I'm house-hacking this one with him! :-D Originally, before I got angry, I was trying to think about it as him helping someone out, and I honestly think that he is, that is what I keep telling myself...just the feeling of getting lied to, even unintentionally, burns me up inside faster than anything. I am going to sleep on it, call the original tenant and talk to him and his roommate. After that, I will *still* do all of the checks and call references on the new roommate.
Thank you again.
- 6yNathan FisherBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2020 · 308 posts · 263 votes
Check with a lawyer, but it's okay to walk away. If they are already breaking their lease terms, they are going to do other things.
Missing one month's rent and finding a new person is way better than the hassle this tenant is going to be.
Aligned Properties Group4.291 Reviews - Fort Smith, AR · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 70 votes6y
@Theresa Harris, there is a clause in the lease about long term "visitors" only being allowed to stay for 10 days before being considered a tenant. There is nothing about roommates being disallowed, but have to have my approval for said roommates. He says that the kids probably won't be there that often, so I am thinking that she does not have sole/full custody of the children. Like I said, I'm going to sleep on it tonight and then talk to both of them tomorrow.
Thank you, the two of you have helped me think about this a little more clear headed.
- Fort Smith, AR · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 70 votes6y
Noted, @Nathan Fisher, thank you!
- Member since 2020 · 82 posts · 100 votes6y
@Justin Johnson what about girlfriend? Is he allowed to have her over? Just by listening to the story, I think he’s helping out this single mother. I’m not sure how many bedrooms in your property but he is willing to share the space with them. Plus he’s being honest with you.
I have a 2bdrm condo & my renters are friends. And if they have their boyfriends there, I don’t think I mind as long as they pay on time. Or even family members...whatever I wouldn’t mind. Sometimes people have hard days & we should be more compassionate to others. Business to business, you’re getting renter & paid on time. That’s what matters - Member since 2020 · 82 posts · 100 votes6y
Oh and as crazy as it sounds, I wouldn’t put her name on the lease. Who knows how long moratorium will stay impacted. If anything bad happens, she can be considered trespassing private property & you can evict her immediately without any legal procedures.
- Rental Property Investor · Chicago (South Suburbs) · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 10 votes6y
My perspective is limited, but my gut is to stay away. I'm new to the world of land lording but have hired dozens of people in my career. And this comes across as a pretty significant flag. When the flag shows up in the "hiring" process, 95% of the time there are issues down the road. Next to getting the right deal, I believe that the most important decision is getting the right tenant. Take your time. Even if it's vacant an extra month, the bullet you dodge is worth it all the way.
- Rental Property Investor · Zanesville, OH · Member since 2020 · 70 posts · 78 votes6y
@Theresa Harris you said "I'd also get the ages of the kids."
I dont think this is the thing to do as age is a protected class. I think you may ask how many adults and how many minors are applying to live there.
- Real Estate Agent · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 303 votes6y
@Justin Johnson you are doing right! Please don’t back down. Get her on the lease because he’ll be able to say I told you she was moving in. Anything can happen...he could get up and move and then you’ll be dealing with just her.
- 6yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Originally posted by @Isaac Pepper:
@Theresa Harris you said "I'd also get the ages of the kids."
I dont think this is the thing to do as age is a protected class. I think you may ask how many adults and how many minors are applying to live there.
That is a better way to phrase it.
- Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes6y
@Justin Johnson You are right in drawing up a new lease with her name on it along with the kid’s names / ages. She should have to go thru the same approval process that the guy went thru. Hopefully you do a criminal background check as well as credit? How often does the mother not get custody of the kids? Red flag! Probably the criminal background check will explain that.
I had this same scenario happen to me but it was the girl with a young baby on the lease. Every time I drove past the rental early in the morning there was an extra pickup truck in the driveway. Confronted tenant and it was the baby’s daddy. Told her we had to do a criminal background check and credit check on him. He was a felon (sex) with poor credit. The rental has a daycare 250 feet away. He goes or you both go! They were gone in 10 days.
As far as not putting her on the lease goes & then claiming trespassing, all she has to do (my state laws) is get some mail there & she has tenant rights. Easier to evict with her on the lease after Covid.
- Accountant · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2018 · 312 posts · 349 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nadia O.:
Oh and as crazy as it sounds, I wouldn’t put her name on the lease. Who knows how long moratorium will stay impacted. If anything bad happens, she can be considered trespassing private property & you can evict her immediately without any legal procedures.
I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice but I'm not sure that leaving her off the lease is a good idea, depending on Arkansas state/local laws. Certain states/areas have laws that allow "visitors/guests" who stay in a property for a certain amount of time (say 30 days) to automatically be considered tenants after that period of time, which would mean he would have to go through the whole eviction process for someone not on the lease. My advice is to always have any adults 18+ on the lease. (Also the national COVID moratorium places a lot of burden on the renter to prove that it was COVID that caused them to be unable to pay, which is the only thing you can't evict for. And they still legally owe you rent under the moratorium).
- Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 75 posts · 39 votes6y
@Nadia O. @Justin Johnson
Terrible advice. They’re not being honest. (An indirect lie is still a lie). It’s not your fault he’s breaking the lease. I would not hand over keys prior to getting her through your screening process. Benefit of the doubt is great, until they prove the opposite. If she doesn’t pass and he wants to leave, keep whatever holding costs incurred and move on.
- Member since 2020 · 82 posts · 100 votes6y
@Kevin S. yes, it is true. She could be considered as tenant After a few weeks depending on the state you’re in. However, his contract is clearly stated that he can’t subletting and there is grace period for guest to stay over. Original renter in already in breached with his lease. The single mother will be considered a lodger. With that said, she can be evicted without proper Formal notice...just simply a verbal. So it is not in her benefit to stay as lodger. She is not simply protected by law. If you decide to put her name on the lease...sure that could be a good idea but I’ll wait until the moratorium is lifted. And if she doesn’t pass the screening, she will have to move out immediately or both renter & guests have to vacate within 30days. This has to be addressed in paper & signed by original tenant.
Again I’m not a lawyer. This is based on my own personal opinion
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
@Justin Johnson she has to CLEARLY qualify on her own to even consider , and I would bet a lot of money she won’t. There is a reason they did this at the last minute.
I would let him know that you are going to pass on his tenancy. Return all money if given. Let him know the original application is void. You really don’t want to give up possession here.
- Property Manager · Kansas City · Member since 2020 · 60 posts · 41 votes6y
Forgive me if I missed it, @Justin Johnson but do you have something in your lease regarding unauthorized occupants? Our leases include a portion dictating how often "guests" are allowed to stay and anything over the time allotted they must be ran through the system and put on the lease. (or at the least listed as an occupant to protect your original lease holder).
IF a lease is already signed and you have a clause such as this in your contract you can contact the new tenant and remind them of the documents they have signed. (and cross your fingers that it is merely an oversight your new tenant will correct immediately)
Although hopefully you have a clause regarding cancellation of lease by landlord for falsifying information and you can avoid the whole headache. - Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Justin Johnson. I would not like a sneaky or deceptive tenant. He probably knew this going into this and lied to you. On the flip side, he could have moved them all in and said nothing to you, which would have caused you more stress. My thoughts are, really check out this woman and vet HER thoroughly. This will avoid issues down the road if she is flaky and using boyfriend to play the tenant game.
- New to Real Estate · Garden Grove, CA · Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 56 votes6y
I have a soft spot for the kids. So, I would allow him to move in by himself for now. Then explain to him that you would need to have her go through the same steps he went through before she can move in. I'm sure she can find a place to stay for a couple of days or until all information is verified. If she passes then rewrite the lease and add her and let her move in.
I know the last minute aspect of it seems shady, but last-minute things do come up in all of our lives.
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