Tenant is taking me to Small Claims Court - Help

Tenant is taking me to Small Claims Court - Help

NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes

So, my tenant serve me with paperwork that he wants me take me to small claims court over his $1200 security deposit, after all repairs were made, I gave him back $250, but he wanted pretty much all of it.

Could anyone tell me what to expect as I have never gone to small claims court before?

One thing that I'm concern is that I have the tenant the move-in inspection checklist and instead of having him sign the original with ink, I had him fax it to me. Not sure if that matter or not since he could just write all over it after he moved out, stating an item was already broken and basically lying in court.

I do have documentation and pictures as well and kept a pretty good log as to what happened.

Any information I could get would be greatly appreciated.

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y

When I make deductions from the security deposit, I include copies of the actual receipts. I only deduct for money actually spent. I never charge a tenant for my time. Never. Maybe it would hold up, but I don't want to lose that argument and end up refunding triple damages for that. If I'm going to charge the tenant for painting, I hire a painter. If they're going to be charged for cleaning, I hire cleaners. If you're charging the tenant, say, $500 for 10 hours of your time, I think you're on very shaky ground in front of a judge. A judge could decide that was something you could have paid much less to hire someone to do. For example, the cleaners I use charge me $90 an hour for a three person crew. If they take two hours, its $180. If it took me 8 hours to do the same job, and I charged $50 an hour for my time, that would be $400. A judge may well completely disallow such a charge. If its double damages (that's what I read in Phillip Dwyer's link), that $800 you have to give back. OTOH, if you have $500 of receipts, you're on solid ground.

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  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    That "L shaped stain" is where their couch was. The rest of the carpet is dirty and the L shaped part is clean. Did you have a professional carpet cleaner come in? My guy has a truck mounted machine that cleans at 130+ degrees. It sucks dirt and stains right out. He would have made that carpet look new again. Berber carpet is especially easy to get clean. You might want to hire a different carpet cleaner.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    I think you have a problem. 2 hours to change 2 drain pop-ups? 1 hour to replace smoke detector batteries and light bulbs? No wonder they think you are ripping them off ...

    That's the first thing I noticed too. Stuck out like a sore thumb.

    changing a drain popup only takes 15 minutes. Remove the lever nut, drop in popup, screw lever nut back on.

    I think there's a good chance the OP will get screwed in this lawsuit. A competent judge will see through these charges.

    Most of these things should have been professionally fixed.

    Sounds like OP was trying to save a few bucks by not hiring a professional carpet cleaner.

    If you want to make a strong case, you need professional repair estimates, at least. For the torn carpet, usually it costs $100 to patch professionally.

    For everything else, you should have hired a handyman and asked for a repair invoice, as long as the handyman's repair bill could be covered by the security deposit.
    It looks like you were trying to make a profit off the deposit.

    The funny thing is, you didn't charge for things you should have charged for, like torn carpet.
    That's not normal wear and tear, and you could paid for professional carpet repair out of the security deposit, and given the tenants a copy of the receipt.

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Let me explain and I defend myself, the drain pop-up is the entire assembly, not just the pop-up. My repair guy went to both Lowe's & Home Depot to get all of the different size pop-up's and none of them fit as the assembly was either too long or the pop-up was too short or wide.

    Also, like I stated before, the place was already professional carpet cleaned by the tenant when they moved out. That 'L' shape is from their shoes in front of the sectional "Couch".

    As for the battery, there are five throughout the entire house, two of which are on 20' foot ceilings.

    As far the light bulb, one was stuck inside a recessed can and the tenant had even wrote me and said they didn't want to touch it in fear that it would break so they gave me the flood light bulb instead.

    My friend who is a property manager told me that I could revise the refund and add the tore carpet, but is kinda a pain, but I could explain if I went in front of the judge.

    As it stand right now, the tenant wrote me a certified "Demand" letter. I have 10 days to respond, which I plan on doing.

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    And as far as my credit goes, I was told by multiple people in the business that if I lose in court AND I don't pay. The tenant would have to record it, then it would affect my credit. If the tenant doesn't record, then it doesn't go on your credit.

    If I lose, I plan on paying immediately.

    Another twist I'll add to this story, is that I'm selling the house, and I should be closing escrow next week.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    13y

    I would not want to go in front of a judge with that list. In your situation, I would have hired someone to clean the carpets and repair the tear. I expect that would have been $200 +/- depending on the size of the house, plus whatever the repair cost. I wouldn't have done anything at all with that broken tile. I'd have charged them whatever the carpet cleaner charged plus the specific items at the bottom of your list. Nothing else.

    I'm afraid this is exactly what a judge is going to think. Maybe you'll get lucky and he will say "they agreed to $50 an hour, so that's what they pay." But he might say "you should have hired a handyman for $20 an hour and they would have gotten all this piddly stuff done in four hours. Instead of $735 for labor I'll allow $80. That's a difference of $655. Pay the give the tenant an addition $1310."

    Do you (or anyone) know if NV allows a landlord to charge for their time at all? Not all states do.

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Yes Jon Holdman, I will hire a handyman for all repairs from now on.

    As far as the judge, it really depends on which judge I get in front of, that's what my property manager friend tells me. So, it could go either way. Some would say $50/hr, you signed, you agreed. One judge she tells me always favors the tenant regardless of what the issue is.

    I know it's going to cost the tenants about $150 to file, if they went through with going to small claims. I'm still not sure they would risk that because I have so much documents stating the conditional of the property and items they agreed for repair.

    They called me before this all happened and wanted to settle, but wanted more than I was winning to give.

    I'm most likely going to settle, but I'm going to think about it this over the weekend.

    What would you guys say is fair?
    Half their security deposit?
    On their demand letter, they want $1100, which I feel is unfair.

  • West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    Nothing 'needs' to be recorded the court does it automatically. Be careful who you take advise from.

    Anyway go to court but be sure to let us know what happens.

  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 189 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    on the point about the judgment... wouldn't talking to a few reps from the big three cr bureaus be a good place to start to get feedback on whether that's recorded on your cr history or not?

    as for settling... I think Jon Holdman has a good idea about how to charge... to add to that, if you still think that's not fair, it might help to adjust perspective by considering the difference in amount can add up to convenience and tuition for this lesson/situation w/your ex-tenant. I'm sure you'll handle things differently after this li'l debacle. I know I've learned from it!

    good luck!

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bruce L.:

    What would you guys say is fair?
    Half their security deposit?
    On their demand letter, they want $1100, which I feel is unfair.

    Fair thing is to cut all your labor time in half, and bill for that, maybe at $40/hr.
    Based on your billed hours, you're a slow worker.
    1 hour to install window blinds, really?
    I pay my gardener $60 a MONTH to mow my grass and trim the hedges. You charged $60 to trim a bush?

    Bill for 7 hours labor= $300, and refund the rest. That's about $725-300 = ~$400 refund.
    So that does work out to about half the deposit in total.

    I think it's ok to fix things yourself in the future, but I'd get a handyman's estimate before doing so. Then you earn whatever you would have paid a handyman.

    $1100 demand is definitely not fair.
    You need to educate them about all the work that was actually done. Even the material alone exceeds what they're willing to pay.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Just for future reference, I would not install anymore pop up drains. They are a nightmare. I take them out and install a grid drain. Here is an image of one:

    [img]http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=571&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=a7TG32gnKH_sMM:&imgrefurl=http://www.edenbath.com/eb_d003cr.asp&docid=yYrFRpyPfb_s_M&imgurl=http://www.edenbath.com/images/products/EB_D003CR-1.jpg&w=540&h=405&ei=lhSWUen5M_er4AOu0ICoAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1593&page=1&tbnh=131&tbnw=174&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:86&tx=70&ty=69[/img]

    These cost $18 at HD or $9 at a plumbing supply place. With a pop up, the tenants will always find a way to drop toothbrushes, toothpaste caps, and hair. A grid drain prevents all of that.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
  • Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
    13y

    I unfortunately never charge a labor fee. I give tenants up front a settlement listing of typical charges and again when their lease is due.

    I would just go to the judge and explain the facts and numbers and don't give any stories about how your guy had to go to HD 3x to find the right part. Just the facts and figures. Let the tenant get emotional which would work to your favor.

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Mike Franco Yes, $60 to trim the whole front yard, which is what my landscaper charged me and I have a receipt for and what the tenant agreed was Ok.

    The blinds being 1 hour, ok, it was maybe like 45minutes to remove the old and install the new, it was one of those large kitchen blinds that goes over a sliding glass door.

  • West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    Buy the same blind that was there before and reuse the mounting brackets. 10 minutes max.

    We keep spare for the apartments and just replace the broken individual slates.

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Before you say something, look at the pictures Ryan M.

    Anyway, I found a great resource to learn about security deposits in NV.
    http://nlslaw.net/landlordtenant.html#securitydeposits

  • West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    Like I said just buy the same one and use the mounting brackets that are already on the wall.

    I forwarded this thread to maintenance guy after the pictures were on. His reply "if only we had it this easy"

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ryan M.:
    Nothing 'needs' to be recorded the court does it automatically. Be careful who you take advise from.

    Anyway go to court but be sure to let us know what happens.

    Ryan: that's not how courts work here in CA and I'm guessing NV is similar. The court only issues certified copies of judgments and orders. The interested parties or their attorneys have to record the document at their expense. If you win in court, it's on you to get a certified copy and record it. So many people who don't understand judgments often go to the trouble of getting one but don't know they have to record it to make it effective. I see unrecorded judgments every day. I even see major collection agency law firms fail to record judgments.

    As far as I know, credit reporting agencies are not reporting from any court records, only recorded documents.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Rob K:
    Just for future reference, I would not install anymore pop up drains. They are a nightmare. I take them out and install a grid drain. Here is an image of one:

    These cost $18 at HD or $9 at a plumbing supply place. With a pop up, the tenants will always find a way to drop toothbrushes, toothpaste caps, and hair. A grid drain prevents all of that.

    I've always objected to this idea because I find it so ghetto and it changes the ease of functionality of the sink basin. But after thinking about it, I realize that nobody closes the pop up drain in our home bath but maybe a few times a year. That's a lot of hardware with movable, breakable parts just to keep the sink looking like it always did. I've replaced broken parts twice and the entire assembly once in the last ten years. Maybe it's time to make the grid drain the new normal. :)

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    K. Marie Poe I've only had one tenant complain about it. A few days after he moved in, he called and said he can't fill the sink with water. I asked him if he needed to soak his pantyhose overnight. He said he likes to fill the bowl with water when he shaves. (My grandpa used to do that with his straight razer and strap to sharpen it).

    This guy must have learned how to shave in the 21st century because he hasn't complained since. No one else has complained about them and I don't get calls for slow draining sinks anymore.

  • Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
    13y

    I know you think you are in the right but that is not how it looks to me. I'd take all the advice given here and apply it in the future. For right now, I think you should settle with the tenant out of court.

  • Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes
    13y

    Rob K Thanks for the grid drain link. This will come in very handy.

  • Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes
    13y

    Hilarious!!! My wife choked on her gum when reading. Thanks for the comedy.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    12y

    @Bruce L. - do you have an update on this one?

  • NV · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 6 votes
    12y

    Basically, I stood my ground and reply back to the tenants that it is what is it and that they are only going to get the security deposit I set.

    They never reply back to me and never checked the cash. So, I put a stop on the check and got my money back.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    You got lucky. I am sure it wasn't intentional on your part, but you pretty much had the whole gougers checklist going there:

    Calling wear-and-tear item damage? Check

    Unreasonable number of hours for repairs? Check

    Unreasonable hourly wage? Check

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