Hey y'all, I know this post is going to seem so rookie to a lot of you but here we go I need your help... I had a potential tenant come by last week (alone) and fell in love with the property... It's not rented yet and she wanted to come by again with her husband and 2 children, which they did tonight... They were pretty much instant friends with me, my mom, and niece and applied before even leaving my house... Well low risk credit scores, no evictions, but wait spouse has a murder conviction?!!!... Oh boy... So it was explained to me what happened by the wife he was 17 and went to jail for 25 years and got out 2 years ago... I'm not a type of person that won't give someone a shot... He left the state it happened when he got out started a new life has a job for nearly a year and is ready to be done with that part of his life... My question is what type of liability could this open me up to if any? I read that in some states landlords have been sued for knowing about a violent past and something happening at the unit... This is a 2 unit current house hack but I won't be here forever... Am I opening myself up to potential liability issues in the future? Or is it okay to rent to someone that is done with their past and just wants to move on????

Renting to a violent felon?

Minooka, IL · Member since 2013 · 353 posts · 85 votes

Nope nope nope. There are too many qualified tenants out there right now. Anyone I’ve rented to with any kind of violent criminal history has been trouble in one way or another.

12 Reply

Nam Trang

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2020 · 106 posts · 89 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter For me it depends on the crime committed and the time that has passed. I would consider Non violent offenders who reestablish good work history.

8 Reply

Tammy Mason

Investor · Fontana, CA · Member since 2020 · 128 posts · 94 votes

5y

As a woman owner who manages my own properties, I will never rent to anyone who has committed a crime against a women or children for my own safety.
My application asks if they are a convicted felon. If they are honest and the crime was long ago, I will usually rent to them. I have a tenant now who was in a violent fight 20 years ago and another guy who had a drug crime when he was way younger. Both are in their 40's and haven't been in trouble since.

5 Reply

Mikel Kaubfa

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 50 posts · 31 votes

5y

Personally I don't rent to people that are fresh out of prison because it's too easy for them to quickly relapse and have their life fall apart again leaving me to deal with the drama. On the other hand someone that has been out for 10 years and hasn't gotten in any trouble since and has their life together would probably pass.....but then again it may depend on what that person was locked up for (murdering his landlord would probably result in him being disqualified).

14 Reply

Adam Martin

Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Hard pass on this one, do you personally feel comfortable living next door to a murderer, even if so many others won't but at least with this it may be hard for others to find out. Yes this was a long time ago however he has only been out for 2 years. Out of pure curiosity do you have any background of the crime as to why he felt the need to murder someone because I guess that could sway my decision but it has to be pretty severe to be convicted of murder vs. getting it dropped to manslaughter. Of course they fell in love with the property and of course they were on their best behavior because they are having a hard time finding a place to stay. If they are in violation of your lease how comfortable are you going to be addressing it with them knowing that he has killed someone. I understand forgiveness, second chances, and that everyone has to have a place to live however I also believe actions have consequences. Someone else will take them in however it is not a risk I am willing to take. I encourage you to think hard on this, especially since it looks like you live in CA which is a tenant friendly state.

16 Reply

Sean Kuhn

Minooka, IL · Member since 2013 · 353 posts · 85 votes

5y

What you should also consider is not just the crime but the ramifications of it. Being in prison for 25 years will change you, usually for the worse. It’s a rough place. Also, is he going to be able to find employment with this record? Paying rent is number 1 and if he can’t do that what’s the point?

9 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes

5y

I will flip it around a little bit, if you develop your screening standards beforehand, you won't have this dilemma on your hands. I haven't run into this myself, but if you decline one applicant for reason X, but accept another applicant even though they also had reason X, someone might make the case it was due to the first applicant being part of a protected class.

There is a mega-landlord in my state that publishes their rental criteria, and I like their document for being a good model to work off of when developing your own criteria: https://www.vinebrookhomes.com... Page 3 has a nice table. (I am not at all connected to this company)

20 Reply

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

5y

@Account Closed They need to check their logic on that table. pending cases/deferred adjucation - 5 years after parole/probation complete? Not possible but I know its not your table. Otherwise it is a decent table.

As for the original question on liability. It seems like you can be possibly liable for anything just go with your criteria whatever that is.

1 Reply

MarieChele PorterPro Member

OP

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 193 posts · 98 votes

5y

@Adam Martin

The specifics are the thing... So his sister was killed by her boyfriend.. Him and his best friend went to beat the guy up... Best friend pulled the trigger but they were both charged with the crime for being involved... I mean it's not like he was a gang banger just in foolishness... I guess that's the thing and I understand what you're saying...

10 Reply

MarieChele PorterPro Member

OP

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 193 posts · 98 votes

5y

@Sean Kuhn

So he's actually been working for almost a year and I have the paystubs... I will of course verify employment but they are also on section 8... Prison is a rough place to be I get that...

1 Reply

Michael Temple

Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 262 posts · 215 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter perhaps not an answer to your question, but some things to think about or consider as you come to an answer...

First, depending on where your rental is the local government may have passed regulations that make ex-felons a protected class that you must rent to if they are otherwise qualified. That would be something you would want to investigate or you may risk bringing a fair housing complaint down on your head.

Second, In my area felons are not protected and I choose to not rent to them. My reasons for this is the fact that I don't think *most* people wake up one morning after being normal decent citizens and decide to become a felon. Rather they have a life pattern, personal life decisions, friends they hang out with, etc. that eventually leads to this outcome. While I realize that is a broad generalization and certainly not true in all situations I figure I just can't take the risk. As a property owner and investor I need to manage risk and this is taking on extra risk with no corresponding rate of return to compensate me for that risk. I know this may sound harsh, but that is the reality. You could do it and it might turn out fine. You could also do it and suddenly his old patterns begin to emerge and you have a real problem on your hands.

Now, having said all that I am going to contradict what I just said, sort of, I have an acquaintance I know who killed someone in a drunk driving accident many years ago. Not murder, but someone still lost their life. He was an alcoholic and while driving home one night hit a pedestrian and killed them. What made it worse is he just drove away, which is why his crime was upgraded to a felony with prison time. He did 5 years in prison for this. Now that he is out he is a totally different person. He doesn't drink, got married to a wonderful lady, has become a very successful real estate investor (rehabbed and owns 20 properties) and runs a successful contracting business. He is not at all the same person that did that crime years ago, but it still happened and someone is still gone because of his decisions. However if nobody ever gave him a second chance no telling where he would be today. Because some people did he is a different person with a different life.

So, now that I have talked out of both sides of my mouth I will have to say this is going to come down to (assuming he is not in a protected class) your personal decision and criteria. You have to decide what risk you are willing to take and if he is telling the truth of how this went down. I can see why it is conflicting to you and wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make.

11 Reply

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter IF the story checks out and he has a job and she does I think you could have an excellent tenant who would stay a long time.

9 Reply

Dennis BurianPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 36 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter

The family clearly made a good impression or you wouldn’t be here. We have some experience with this as within our longest term tenant family, the husband was convicted of manslaughter in his youth and did his time. Wife with 3 kiddos stuck by him while he was away which was a big factor in their favor. I don’t remember his sentence but it wasn’t trivial, several years.

Your question regards your liability but if they’re really trying to fly right and not gaming you, that won’t be an issue. At the end of the day, your screening criteria are much the same as any other applicant. Verify the story your being given as best you can. I’d pay attention to the wife as much as the husband because her past performance is the best predictor of the future that you have. If they are new to the current state of residence, I’d dig into public records in previous states best you can. If it costs a couple bucks, you can add it to their app fee.

Two things in favor of the candidate, he already has a job (I assume they qualify financially, my guy couldn’t find work for years because of the conviction). Second, assuming they pass and you rent to them, they’ll likely be model tenants because they’ll know their choices are limited if they screw it up: an ex-con with an eviction would be poison to most landlords.

Are we still having fun?

Dennis Burian

Rent OKC Metro, LLC

PS. The tenant I referred to above has been with us 14 years.

[email protected]

7 Reply

Dennis Wayne

Member since 2020 · 339 posts · 356 votes

5y

Normally I’d say $&@@ NO !! but your in the people’s republic of San Fran sicko so I imagine they’d force you to take this dangerous piece of crap in and probably hand him the deed to your house .

5 Reply

Bridget Brazelton

Denver, CO · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 50 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter

Trust 👏 Your 👏 Instincts 👏!

Then, develop your criteria for what does and doesn’t pass muster in the future. Let me ask you this: If you were developing these criteria now, would ‘murder conviction’ fall into the pass or fail column? Personally, I wouldn’t touch this one. You’re already worried about how it could burn you. Even if it doesn’t, you might lose sleep constantly wondering if it will, and that’s bad enough.

0 Reply

Nicole W.

Rental Property Investor · L.A. Ca · Member since 2020 · 121 posts · 43 votes

5y

I have a criteria and keep to it with everyone. Violent criminal is not on my list. There is no scarcity of tenants anywhere. I rather wait to get someone who fits my criteria than not. It saves more time in the end.

0 Reply

Ola Dantis

Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

Shesssssh!!! I literally had to think about it for a good second and I actually asked my wife as well.

Look, at the face of it. Who wants to live next to a murderer? Of course, no one. But as a society, we should try to give people a second chance before tossing them to the sidelines. This person has done their time and possibly trying to do life properly this time.

My question is what has this person been doing since he got out 2 years ago? I mean the crime was committed by a 17-year-old 25 years ago and society wants to condemn him for the rest of his life?

Yes, they are many tenants out there but it is ok to give second chances and I know a murder conviction is a hard one to overlook. Listen to your gut on this one, as you met this person and hopefully you were able to discern their character a lot more.

12 Reply

Hadley FisherBusiness Member

Rental Property Investor · Boca Raton · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 28 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter

Hope your well and thank you for posting !

It sounds like a guy who went do something To avenge his sister because her boyfriend had killed . Bad judgement to say the lest !

My brother was killed serval years ago and I wanted to kill the kid that did it for years.

I did not act on my brotherly impulses because it would of done nothing to bring him back and two wrongs don’t make a right ! I know pray for kid !

It’s a hard Decision because I am big family guy .

It’s one of those heart and mind questions

Heart tell him welcome as a tenant !

Mind no way !!

4 Reply

John Teachout

Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

My biggest concern with the situation is that he hasn't been out of prison long enough for me to feel comfortable with him. I realize the crime was a long time ago but maybe he would have slain someone every two years if he wasn't locked up. Another factor is that 25 years seems like a long time to serve so I'm curious as to what his record was in prison? ie, how come he wasn't paroled sooner? It would be a hard no for me because I'm all about mitigating risk. That's hard enough in any circumstances, let alone a known felony history. Keep repeating to yourself that this is a business, not a ministry.

4 Reply

Mailei MaloaPro Member

Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 4 votes

5y

This is a good learning situation for me. (Note to self Make sure I have a criteria down) Criteria is one thing and your personal feelings and impressions are another. If @MarieChele Porter had criteria and just stuck to it she could still have poor or bad tenants. If she goes with her gut could have a great tenant or another loser.

Just thinking outside the box could there be something that gets put into the lease agreement about police being called to the residence, a failed parole or parole/ probation violation? Anything in there about aggression to the neigbors? Maybe adding something into the lease agreement to aleviate some of the what ifs? Just a question with possibly some additional ideas.

I live in San Francisco and I have rented in some of the harder neighborhoods Hunters point/ Bayview and the Inner Mission. There are some that have been rehabilitated and others that are career criminals. Time will tell but do you take the chance?

Good luck with your decision.

1 Reply

Henry Lazerow

Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

You should have a set screening criteria and not be making case by case decisions. But would definitely pass on this tenant.

2 Reply

Waylon Zook

Etna Green, IN · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 157 votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter

This would be a tough one.... Kudos to you if you decide to give him a second chance ! Would there be a chance you could talk to his parole officer if he is still on parole ?

My thought is where do you stay if in that situation...hes going to live somewhere.

0 Reply

Melissia Larson

Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 1 vote

5y

@MarieChele Porter

Go with your gut; he and his family made a good impression on you. Having family support is critical for ppl re-entering society; just like having employment is. Additionally don’t let the 25 years scare you; the system (sentencing guidelines) are always changing. What for you 25 years then might get you 12 today. It is what it is; he’s served his time.

I do think neighbors would be concerned if they found out before getting to know him. When my neighbor moved in I was a bit concerned finding out her ex was in prison for trying to kill her. In my mind, I was still nervous for a second.

If they meet your criteria and there’s no liability, go for it.

1 Reply

Ali Boone

Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

I'm incredibly biased because I volunteer in California prisons on the regular... I literally probably hang out with murderers (and otherwise) more than I do people on the outside. I mostly work with the men, and most of them are in with life sentences. In the last few years, many of them have gotten out. And I will tell you that when someone has had a life sentence (which is usually the case for murder charges) and they are released, they can be damn motivated to perform well. When you've been told that you're going to die in prison, and you're given the chance to get out, there's a lot of motivation there to behave. It's why the recidivism rate for lifers is extremely low compared to most (~1%). That's by no means to say that every single lifer who gets out will perform to the highest of standards, or even try, but so far all of the guys I've worked with who've gotten out absolutely have. Yes, being in prison for that long can have some effects in regards to maybe some things they aren't used to or logistics or whatever, but those things may have no bearing on paying rent. If it were a repeat offender for smaller crimes, I'd actually be more concerned about them than I would someone who went in at 17 for being an accomplice to murder and was in for 25 years. It's a tough one to call-- they could literally be your dream tenants.

I would say that if all of the normal screening processes check out, and you got a great vibe with the family... that's hard to beat. I'd be tempted to go for it. I think another big clue would be talking with his employer when you verify his employment and asking him/her how he is as an employee. If he/she says he's an insanely hard worker and never misses a day, that'd be it for me and I'd let him move in.

Let me know his name or what prison he was at (privately of course) and maybe I know him! :) I know quite a few guys who have been paroled to San Fran in the last couple years. And the ones I do know who have been paroled-- I would absolutely rent my property to them.

7 Reply

Jill F.

Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes

5y

@MarieChele Porter Who did he put down for references? Have you talked to them? Have you read the criminal complaint and court docs? I would do those things. I also use honestrenter.com in an effort to weed out tenants with entitlement issues. If you do go with them, I'd only do month-to-month so you can get them out faster if you have issues. Wait. I see you are in CA; is that where your rental is located? It's so hard to get people out in CA that I don't think I'd take the chance especially with the eviction moratorium dragging on.

0 Reply

Renting to a violent felon?

Renting to a violent felon?

Most Popular Reply

101 Replies