Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?
Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes
Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?
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Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
5y(1) Inspectors have to justify their job. So, they will always find something. One time, we showed them a recently renovated unit. They literally did not find a single thing wrong with the unit. But they dinged us on peeling paint on the wooden post as divider for the garden area. Remediation for that was easy enough. We just painted over it. But the point remains. You can give them a perfect unit and they will still find something wrong with it.
(2) Section 8 tenants are lazy and demanding. They will literally demand that you come out to press the reset button on the gfi.
(3) No accountability at all. Every section 8 tenant I have ever had ended up trashing the place. They also live in filthy conditions.
Sorry, will never do section 8 ever again. Too much of a headache dealing with this segment of the tenant pool.
Edit.
Section 8 tenants are kings and queens of the learned helplessness examples. They never ever want to improve their lives. The tragic thing is they pass this learned helplessness onto their children. It's sad to watch them not able to do the simplest things. They don't even have the common sense for the simplest things.
For example, one time they poured grease down the drain and clogged it. They told us the kitchen sink was clogged. When I got there, the kitchen was semi-flooded. Why? Because they continued to use the sink anyway and it was overflowing onto the kitchen floor. Honestly, do you really want to deal with people like this? I was going to say they are dumber than rocks but I'm sure social justice warriors on here will kill me over it. But how would you describe people who continue to use the kitchen sink that was clogged even though it was flooding the kitchen floor?
212 Replies
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
@Kevin R. I get it but it's all relative. Multiple people have figured out this formula. Its like any other aspect in investing. There are people who have financed their entire portfolios over decades with section 8 alone and if they are achieving optimal profits, they would argue its without question worth it
- Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Why are y’all even bothering trying to reason with keyboard warriors? You do know that most of the people saying the most disgusting things about Section8 tenants don’t even have a full profile with their full name, real picture and location?
“They’ll say that for the sake of privacy they don’t want their names, etc. out there....”
“Never argue with the ignorant, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.”
I think you’ll find a higher level of reasonable discussion with the ones that are not in hiding behind their partial profile. I know I do. I may not always agree with them, but they do seem to be more sound and logical than the “keyboard warriors”.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
I have a question for you. I am on section 8 and I have been in the same house for 20 years, done a lot of upgrades out of my pocket, such as glass tile backsplash, crown molding, new carpet and lots more, I am a clean freak and I take care of the house I'm in, my land lady loved me. unfortunately she passed away and the family wants to sell the house. I live in California, bay area, where you now have to take section 8. I put in a application for a 2 bedroom house and I was the first one to submit an application. my credit is good , no evictions , pay all my bills on time, great landlord referral, I was denied because she said I did not qualify, when I talked to her and asked why, she said housing denied me the 2 bedroom . my voucher is for 1 bedroom up to 2766.00, if you can get a five bedroom for that amount. Great. now the process took 10 days for her to tell me I was denied but, the place was off market 2 days before that, when I got ahold of housing ,my worker told me she never said that, she told them to send in the package and she would run the comps, This place was 2550.00. The PM did not send it in and just said housing denied it. are they allowed to do that or do they have to send it in. Is that not a form of discrimination
- Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 41 votes5y
Relating to your question Debbi Mims, California is a different kind of animal, but it is always important to process everyone's application the same or a landlord could be in for a discrimination lawsuit. As long as all applications are processed fairly and equally, you may choose the renter based on your own criteria. From what you described, it sounds like your situation needs to be looked into.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
Thank you Lee Carrell, I thought it was first come, first served, that is what I was told by another property manager, I filled out another application about 10 days ago, they called today and haven't even run the app, but he took my money, and on another site for the same place , it says No Section 8, I know most owners don't like section 8, and I don't blame them, because they take forever too ,but I am a good tenant, keep my place clean, for 20 years I have lived here and never called my lady to fix anything, I am frustrated going through this process. Nobody wants me to live in their property because of section 8, but they just string you along instead of telling you the truth.
- Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 41 votes5y
Based on your description, you sound like the kind of tenant that I would love to have! Again, good luck!
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes5y
@Debbie M Mims If you want to move to Baltimore let me know, we gladly take section 8 and would love to have a tenant like you.
It is LEGAL to discriminate, you just can't discriminate on certain classes of people. Federal law says those classes are: race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, and familial status. Notice that section 8 is not mentioned. So under federal law it is legal to discriminate against section 8 tenants.
However many, if not most states, add to that list. California law adds "source of income" as a protected class. to quote this website https://www.gblafairhousing.or... it says:
"Sources of income can include . . . public benefits, " In other words, section 8. They did note however that it is legal for Kern County landlords to refuse section 8.Click the link to that website and I think you will find it helpful. You can get a landlord in big trouble for breaking fair housing laws. Good Luck.
- Member since 2020 · 57 posts · 24 votes5y
Housing voucher can be great if you get the right tenant. HUD pays a certain portion of the rent, tenant pays the rest.
Some cons are: the annual inspection where they make you fix certain things, the voucher pool consists of 90% bad tenants in my opinion so finding the correct tenant can take long. Voucher tenants generally don't upkeep the property as well because they are financially strapped. HUD prioritize parent with children so most voucher recipients are single mother and children cause more wear and tear and moms need more maintenance requests. Court eviction can take longer for voucher tenants because if they are in California or New York they qualify for free legal aids and can drag the case for months while forcing you to fold because you cant afford your own attorney fees.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
@NedCarey thank you, I already looked into that, I applied for another rental and after 10 days of not hearing a thing and finding the listing on another site that said no section 8, I reached out and asked if they are running my app and what is going on, no response, after 3 times of doing this I told them that I was going to report them, they called the next day, ran my app in 1 hour and I was approved. I hate doing that but if he had called and said we don't really want to rent to section 8, I would have moved on. but he hadn't even run my app. I have been stressing for days, cause the new owner of the house I'm in ( my landlady's grandson) wants to get in and get ready for the sale of the house, and they have been so good to me I wanted to get out by may 1st. I just don't understand why they don't just answer someone. Ive left messages for tons of realtors on their sites for homes, no one answered, soon as I left out that Im on housing, Everyone called me.
- Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
As has already been pointed out, how smoothly this program will go for a landlord is dependent on the local office handling these vouchers. In my area there are a number of people on this program (the waiting list for a voucher is now up to five years) and the workload for each caseworker is considerable. As a result the reimbursement is far below market rate, the wait for the initial inspection is typically 8 to 12 weeks, the wait for the final paperwork is even longer and it is extremely difficult to contact a problem tenants caseworker. Many landlords simply give up attempting to deal with the local HUD office.
The HUD VASH program can be a different animal. While my local program provides the vouchers for the homeless veterans and does the inspections, it is the social workers in the local VAMC's that monitor these applicants. Thus contact between landlord and "caseworker" is much easier. The downside is that many of these homeless veterans are single and this qualify for only a one bedroom unit.
- Member since 2021 · 5 posts · 5 votes5y
This is illegal in California now. But at one time I did not accept ...
1.) tenants with pets (some properties I still don't accept pets)
2.) Co-Signers (usually tenants that have co-signers do not take care of the property, other times the co-signer might be able to pay the tenants rent anymore, such as like during COVID)
3.) Section 8 (until 2020 I did not have any section 8 tenants and did not know about the law. I still thought that people who were on section 8 were in "project based housing" and all their neighbors were also on section 8. I quickly learned the new laws and mandates though and as a result accepted my first section 8 in December before the mandate started. By March of 2020 I had 3 tenants on section 8 scattered in units between my 9 buildings across Los Angeles city and county. Now I currently have 5 section 8 tenants, because the law states I can not refuse them as a tenant if their voucher covers the rent.)
What I learned from this experience, and what my assumptions were in the past are very different. I have had ZERO problems with any of my section-8 tenants. During the pandemic they were the only tenants who were able to pay their rent 100% every month. So they actually helped me.
If I believed some of the stories I heard in the past I would have been afraid to rent to anyone with a section-8 voucher, but ironically the people I have had the most issues with were young adults that used their parents as co-signers. The young adults would not take care of the property because their parents would pay the rent. I also had most of my complaints from other tenants about young adults being loud and noisy.
With section 8 they are monitored by the city, so they have to be on their best behavior or they lose their voucher. Also they are already pre-screened from the government/city. I still have do perform a background check though...which is usually criminal history, previous references from their landlord, credit score. If they pass the inspection then I simply accept them. The process is quick, and the inspection takes about 5 minutes. It is a piece of cake. The first RFTA packet I had to fill out I had accounting handle. Now they are pros at it because it is a mandatory form of income by the state.
As I mentioned in another post...if my asking rental price is within means of the voucher amount then I take them. These are often class B properties, some are older units that are in class A properties. If the rental market for that area meets the requirements for the voucher amount and they pass a background check, then I approve them. Legally I, nor my management team can say no.
There are harsh penalties for owners, and managers, or management companies if they say no or treat the prospective tenant who is a voucher holder unfairly. Those penalties go on record and if any other prospective tenant does research in the future, they will see a violation against that manager or owner. Another thing is...we now live in a day of reviews...a bad review can make or break your business. it is like a domino. If others see bad reviews online they will not want to rent from you.
But I think of this whole new law as a win-win situation....I not only get more tenants instead of losing them to my competition, but I also have guaranteed rent from the city, right now they are also paying landlords $2,500 extra dollars for new section 8 applicants, which covers the holding deposit and then some. So I end up making more money in the long run. Some properties I can also raise my asking price to the amount of the section 8 voucher if I chose to do so (although I have not done that yet, some of my competition has).
The only thing I can now legally disqualify a tenant for is if they have a pet (although if it is an Emotional Support Animal that is a protected right by the city/state) ,and I can still not approve them if they have criminal history or a credit score below a certain amount. Which oddly my section 8 tenants seem to all have had 750 or better credit scores, so i'm still learning something new. Either way I make more money from having more tenants, it is guaranteed income if it is from section 8, and with that extra money I can invest in more properties.
I got into real estate, bot to cherry pick my tenants, but to help them, build a good reputation and expand my business. If you are too thin skinned to handle that you are in the wrong business. Especially since the laws are changing all the time. A good owner, landlord, and management company knows this is the way to survive in the world.
- Member since 2021 · 7 posts · 1 vote5y
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:
However many, if not most states, add to that list. California law adds "source of income" as a protected class. to quote this website https://www.gblafairhousing.or... it says:
"Sources of income can include . . . public benefits, " In other words, section 8. They did note however that it is legal for Kern County landlords to refuse section 8."
You are correct, yes in California you cannot refuse a section 8 applicant! You can get in A LOT of trouble for refusing a tenant that has a housing voucher or treating them unfairly compared to other applicants.
I am assuming this will eventually happen in other states as time goes on.
Here is how things have changed in housing in the last 50 years...
1.) You can no longer discriminate an applicant based on race/ethnicity.
2.) You can no longer discriminate an applicant based on age (years ago lanlords did not want to rent to older tenants because they feel there were too much of a headache as they felt older people would complain more and have issues more).
3.) You can no longer discriminate against an applicant that is homosexual, transgender, etc...
4.) (In most states) You can no longer discriminate against an applicant with an Emotional Support Animal.
5.) (In many states) You can no longer discriminate against source of income. (If you can pay the portion of the rent a landlord is not allowed to refuse you as a tenant).
As another poster mentioned, today it is much harder to be a landlord than it was years ago. New laws and city requirements are much more strict than they were before. Plus, A simple negative review from a tenant can break you and hurt your business. That is the world we live in now. But a good landlord should be prepared for this.
- Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
@Debbie M Mims I own Section 8 rentals right here in the East Bay Area and you sound like a great tenant!
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
I finally got a place and walked in and it had roaches everywhere, I walked out and said NO. found another place after being in hotel for a month. its very nice but I gave up my housing cause it was such a pain in the butt. i got a roomate to help with rent. If it doesnt work out I will let you know, and thank you Brian, I believe I am a good tennant.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
Gretchen EM Swanson because some people do not know you have to. I asked that same question befor I found out you had to accept it. and a lot of people told me NO
- Member since 2021 · 5 posts · 5 votes5y
@Debbie M Mims Well then you can legally go after those landlords/management companies who say that to you. My guess is they do not know the new laws. That is discrimination if they say that or treat you unfairly so that you can't apply or talk to them on the phone. That is also unprofessional. A good landlord/property manager knows the latest laws and how to run a business.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
Todd Straussberg I know but i dont want to be where I am not wanted, Their loss. One lady told me no and I told her it is illegal to not accept housing, She replied that she could rent her house to who ever she pleased, so I sent her a copy of the law, she came back with the reason I dont want to rent to you is beacause you said you di a lot of up grades and I dont want that done to my property. I told her I would not do anything with out her permission, and I dont want to rent her house anyways because I dont want to be where Im not wanted, I just wanted to inform you of the law. It has been a nightmare finding and getting a place, either they dont call you back or they say no they dont accept housing, between housing and the PM s I eventually just said screw it , I will go off housing and get a place with a room mate. and that is what I did
- Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes5y
Originally posted by @Debbie M Mims:
I finally got a place and walked in and it had roaches everywhere, I walked out and said NO. found another place after being in hotel for a month. its very nice but I gave up my housing cause it was such a pain in the butt. i got a roomate to help with rent. If it doesnt work out I will let you know, and thank you Brian, I believe I am a good tennant.
Debbie, the severely obese tenant who stopped paying 3 months before moving out, broke the toilet seat with her weight, and then filed a lawsuit about the broken toilet seat thought she was the best tenant in the world.
Every bad tenant I have ever ran across think they are the best tenant in the world. Just sayin'.
- Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 3 votes5y
I can show you pics of all the upgrades I did and i stayed in my house for 20 years so I must have been doing something right, Never once called landlady about anything, fixed it my self or my brother in law , who is a contractor for the last 40 years, fixed it for me. My landlady would bring her friends over to see all the improvements ive done, Just Saying
- Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes4y
Originally posted by @Debbie M Mims:
I can show you pics of all the upgrades I did and i stayed in my house for 20 years so I must have been doing something right, Never once called landlady about anything, fixed it my self or my brother in law , who is a contractor for the last 40 years, fixed it for me. My landlady would bring her friends over to see all the improvements ive done, Just Saying
Debbie, you have to understand something. This is a numbers game. Each one of us have to deal with dozens/hundreds of potential tenants and tenants. Yes, we try to look at each individual and background, but at the end of the day we have to have certain "rule of thumb". Otherwise, we'd be bogged down with every little thing.
For example, I always look both ways when I go through an intersection that I have the green. Yesterday, as I was going through a green, I saw the car coming in from the right wasn't stopping. So, I slammed on my brakes and saved myself from a t-bone collision. I don't have time and mental capacity to evaluate each driver on the road as an individual. This is why I blanket assume everyone who drives on the road is a dumbass and unpredictable. And that rule of thumb saved my life yesterday.
Many of us here have had enough housing tenants in the past to have a sour taste in our mouths. I say this fully aware that there are honest-to-god good housing tenants out there. But at the end of the day, it's a numbers game. The percentage of bad housing tenants make it a big risk that many of us simply cannot afford. Especially when section 8 don't seem to hold anyone on section 8 accountable.
- 4yJorge VazquezBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 684 votes
If a rental property is in a good location and well rehabbed, you can generally rent it out to a private pay tenant more quickly than you can obtain a Section 8 voucher. Therefore it’s often more profitable to be more selective in choosing investment properties and do a better job with the rehab, so you can more quickly rent to a private pay tenant. Take Away: Is Section 8 Worth It? There are significant advantages to Section 8 housing that all real estate investors should consider. However, there are disadvantages and risks inherent in Section 8 investment properties. If your property is in a good location and you do a great job with the rehab, you’ll probably make more money renting it to private individuals. But some of the best real estate investors take the negatives of Section 8 housing that warrant higher rents and turn them into higher profits. If you decide to invest in Section 8 housing, make sure you understand the advantages and disadvantages and have a solid plan to profit.
Graystone Investment Group4.6271 Reviews - Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 2 votes3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
I'd rather rent to a hardworking undocumented immigrant that's working hard.
As someone said, section 8 rabbit hole.Sounds like you only rent to your kind
- Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 2 votes3y
Quote from @James York:
Originally posted by @James Elden:
Honestly it sounds like the poster is trying to start some kind of political argument. Section 8 has it's positives and negatives, any real estate investor should be aware of this already, acting like it's all roses is a bit ridiculous.
This has nothing to do with starting a political debate. It has to do with starting a discussion. I feel certain that, much like myself, many of you aren’t aware of all the previous injustices done in housing. Anyone who knows me would expect me to make all the same statements seen in other comments. After reading this book, I’ve come to realize that the problems are greater than I had imagined. It goes far beyond calling someone lazy and assuming they could easily do better. I realize in the context of a forum it’s hard to fully understand, but if you knew me you’d know that I am absolutely an advocate for working hard and helping yourself over handouts. I simply think there is a case for public assistance far greater than what I had previously believed. You’re welcome to disagree and I’m most certainly NOT here for a political debate. Regardless of your thoughts on section 8, I’d encourage you to check out that book. It was eye opening to say the least.
Whats the name of the book?
- Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 2 votes3y
Quote from @Jonathan Satizabal:
I like having a few tenants that hold section 8 vouchers. I market my properties at market rents and I put all the applicants to the screening process. If a section 8 tenant happens to be the best applicant then they get the unit. I have had some really good experience with section 8 tenants. I had one bad experience with a section 8 tenant but that was my fault. I never should have moved her in.
I have had some really good section 8 tenants. Example, working mom that put her self through college, a Vietnam vet that was the most clean and organized tenant I have ever had, another one actually priced her self out of the program because she started making too much money at her job.
You have to treat them like any other tenant credit check, back ground check and employment verification. This information builds a story on how responsible they are and gives you an idea of their past rental history.
I feel that the people with bad experiences do not properly screen their tenants. There's definitely a trick to making it work. Remember, anyone can qualify for section 8 but that doesn't automatically qualify them for your property.
Thank you for saying this. My parents exclusively rent to section 8 tenants. Screening and buying the property right negates most of these landlords complaints
- Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 2 votes3y
Quote from @Brian Garlington:
@James York Different people will always have different views about this and there's the saying that
"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
My experience initially with Section 8 in Cleveland was very negative because of the inspectors. No standardization, being very unorganized, etc. I call it short term pain for long term gain. Deal with some red tape, unorganization and nonsense up front.....to know that you will have a tenant that (in my experience) will stay longer on average than many cash tenants and most (if not all) of your rent money is guaranteed.
Luckily I had also dealt with Housing Authorities in Alameda County and Contra Costa County here in the Bay Area so I knew NOT to expect to pass the inspection the first or even second time. I also know that when you screen the tenants properly that makes a world of difference. I personally screened the Section 8 tenants in all of my rentals, including the ones in Cleveland. Many of my colleagues have asked why am I personally screening them when I have a PM that should be doing this. My answer is simple. Nobody will care about your property as much as you. After I screen them, then I turn it over to my PMs to actually work with the housing authority to sign the packet, place the tenant, etc.
Nobody can guarantee a perfect tenant, cash or Section 8. But I sure sleep well at night....especially this past year knowing that none of my Section 8 tenants went on a "rent strike". In fact a few of them lost their jobs....and the Housing Authorities simply started covering their entire rent.
Thank you for saying this. I know several investors that only work with section 8 tenants
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