Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?

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Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?

James York
Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes

I’ve just finished reading “The Color of Law” which is an eye opening look in to government sponsored segregation through housing policy. With section 8 being an actionable step in the right direction, why are some landlords refusing it? The inspections I’ve experienced look for things I’d demand for my family. The allowance for rent meets or sometimes exceeds market rent in my area.  The tenants are often more qualified than market tenants. They often have incomes 6-8x their portion of the rent vs the 3x I typically require. Aside from places where vouchers don’t match market rent, why aren’t you taking section 8 tenants?

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Lam N.
Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
5y

(1) Inspectors have to justify their job.  So, they will always find something.  One time, we showed them a recently renovated unit.  They literally did not find a single thing wrong with the unit.  But they dinged us on peeling paint on the wooden post as divider for the garden area.  Remediation for that was easy enough.  We just painted over it.  But the point remains.  You can give them a perfect unit and they will still find something wrong with it.

(2) Section 8 tenants are lazy and demanding.  They will literally demand that you come out to press the reset button on the gfi.  

(3) No accountability at all.  Every section 8 tenant I have ever had ended up trashing the place.  They also live in filthy conditions.  

Sorry, will never do section 8 ever again.  Too much of a headache dealing with this segment of the tenant pool.

Edit.

Section 8 tenants are kings and queens of the learned helplessness examples.  They never ever want to improve their lives.  The tragic thing is they pass this learned helplessness onto their children.  It's sad to watch them not able to do the simplest things.  They don't even have the common sense for the simplest things.  


For example, one time they poured grease down the drain and clogged it.  They told us the kitchen sink was clogged.  When I got there, the kitchen was semi-flooded.  Why?  Because they continued to use the sink anyway and it was overflowing onto the kitchen floor.  Honestly, do you really want to deal with people like this?  I was going to say they are dumber than rocks but I'm sure social justice warriors on here will kill me over it.  But how would you describe people who continue to use the kitchen sink that was clogged even though it was flooding the kitchen floor?

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  • Bill O'Donnell
    Rental Property Investor · Newburgh, NY · Member since 2018 · 160 posts · 117 votes
    5y

    @James York

    This seems like a setup. .

    Don't write anything that you don't want to speak about in housing court.

    0Reply
  • Jorge VazquezBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 685 votes
    5y

    Base on my experience after doing this for 20 years, I've noticed that section 8 tenants do not care about the property as much as private pay does. No matter how much more you get them to market rent at the end of the long term, it cost you more. IT IS NOT PERSONAL IS A BUSINESS DECISION. 

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  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    @James York 
      After reading this book, I’ve come to realize that the problems are greater than I had imagined    .

    I only read through the first page of comments, its Long thread.  Sadly I think many in this thread  missed your point. I am always amazed when I learn how late some prejudicial laws survived and how much predudice still remains.

    To answer your question, landlords are business people looking to make a profit. Many don't accept section 8 because of the perception of the type of tenants and the cost and effort they will cause.

    We have had very good luck with section 8, because we screen them (and all our tenants) thoroughly. When I read some of the comments it sounds like they didn't screen the tenants very well.

    The other reason many don't like section 8 is the bureaucracy and inefficiency of how some housing authorities are run. In my area, inspectors are unreasonably picky. They will fail you for nothing that has to do with health and safety.  Extreme example; inspector cited a landlord for not having a soap dish for the bathroom sink.

    For the record, in my area section 8 often pays more than market rent. 

    6Reply
  • Nigel Dean
    Houston, TX · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 3 votes
    5y

    @James York just wanted to say I just started read the the Color of Law as well. Very informative book so far to say the least.

    3Reply
  • Brandon DeVega
    Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2021 · 50 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    You are truly a Blessing🙏🏽. Thank you for bringing this up and making this an important topic of discussion👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽. @James York

    2Reply
  • Brandon DeVega
    Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2021 · 50 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    Extremely well said👍🏽 @Will Stewart

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Rich Hupper:

    All the section 8 I have dealt with are completely helpless individuals. They have zero accountability. I have seen them sign leases upside down, before I have to correct them. All they want to do is paint their nails and watch a reality tv shows. They are exactly what the government wants. A dependent automaton. 

    Ok. Lets take your comment seriously for a moment. Why do you think the government wants helpless dependent automatons? Will they contribute to the government in any way? If they are as lazy as you say, will they even vote? Even if they do how can you make sure they will vote for you?  Maybe you are the automaton buying into the great lie that all poor people are poor because they are lazy and all rich people are rich because they are smart and work hard. When all the statistics show that your chance of making it out of the income quartile you are born in is very very slim. Maybe the government wants you to believe that the rich deserve not to pay any taxes and that corporations should be allowed to buy and own the government. Maybe it is YOUR beliefs that are EXACTLY what the government wants..ever think about that? Because that does benefit the government and people in power greatly.

    2Reply
  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Richard A Gibboney Jr its not always guaranteed income.  People can lose their assistance, and they can stop paying their portion.  Then you are evicting anyway.  Its perhaps more of a guarantee for rent in high risk areas. 

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  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    This is a great venue but I sincerely hope the admins take heed to all the bigoted and discriminatory comments expressed by inexperienced investors. It´s tragic, but when you hear others expound on their racist or prejudiced experiences don´t be so quick to dismiss them. So much of the view points are coming from a scope of ignorance and people with inadequate business ability. It´s truly sad but something I always knew was present and thriving...............

    4Reply
  • Kevin R.
    Attorney · Mobile Alabama · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @James York. I saw just about everything you can imagine in your worst real estate nightmares via Section 8, other than a dead body. I had 14 rental units at the pinnacle, and I was close to losing my mind. Why risk your safety and sanity dealing with people who give zero F@cks about you or your property?

    0Reply
  • Kevin R.
    Attorney · Mobile Alabama · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @James York. Buddy, you wouldn’t last 1 week in the hood where I owned properties. They would literally eat you alive. The ignorance on display here is mind blowing !!!

    0Reply
  • Kevin R.
    Attorney · Mobile Alabama · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G. I had a section 8 property so full of roaches that you couldn’t blow in insulation behind the walls. The millions of roach carcasses were packed in that tight. There were thousands running up and down the walls when I got back in after evicting the tenant ( West 103rd Street in Cleveland Ohio). The tenant was so disgusting that every home surrounding this house got roaches.

    0Reply
  • Jay Hunt
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    5y
    Candidly, some of these responses are gross.  Not saying the people who wrote them are, but some of this rhetoric about people needing section 8 housing automatically being idiots or by default stupid for needing to be on the program are some really trash hot takes.

    I've had two section 8 tenants in the last 15 years.  One was great and the other one was just there but neither of them tore up my place.

    The administration of it, though, juuuust sucked.  I also didn't particularly like the feeling of what felt like the mighty hand of government suddenly having a complete and utter right to enter my property without my knowledge as they administered the program. 

    in California as of 2020 it's not legal to turn anyone down because of section 8 usage but you still can have tenant requirements like good credit or minimum credit score that you follow for everyone that the section 8 tenant likely won't meet.

    I waived those for the section 8 tenants that I mentioned above and thankfully it worked out but when I had done so for other tenants not on assistance it has bitten me on the butt.

    Long story short: if you screen section 8 tenants like you screen your other tenants (with a little wiggle room for their financial situation), interview them/their current landlord (if you can), and you don't mind more government intrusion into your business (property), then try it as a one-off to see if you're okay with the level of administration required.  
    3Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y


    @Kevin Ryan

    if you encounter all those horrific elements and many others tell you they dont, couldn´t it be suggested that it may a flaw in the way you operate your business? 

    5Reply
  • William Bucklin
    Rental Property Investor · Waterville, ME · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 19 votes
    5y

    I’m pretty sure it’s illegal not to accept section 8 tenants based on them having section 8.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Irish-Jones:

    @Richard A Gibboney Jr its not always guaranteed income.  People can lose their assistance, and they can stop paying their portion.  Then you are evicting anyway.  Its perhaps more of a guarantee for rent in high risk areas. 

    Exactly for landlords to think Section 8 is guaranteed rent is just not correct for the situations you mentioned..  We had a heck of a time with our copays.. but what are you going to do  you have 800 rent 750 hud 50 co pay and the co pay never pays. you going to do an eviction and turn over ??  And the thought that section 8 will kick them out of the program and they lose the voucher.. I never saw that once.. I only saw them lose vouchers when they earned to much money. 

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  • Karla Simmons
    Vacaville, CA · Member since 2019 · 218 posts · 140 votes
    5y

    @James York We don’t accept because we know others that have and they say the house usually gets beat up pretty badly and neighbors complain about the tenants being loud, having too many guests over, etc. Not worth it.

    0Reply
  • James York
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes
    5y

    @Kevin R. I appreciate your opinion of me based solely on a conversation-provoking post. I’m sure, to your point, you’re far smarter than I am and will always be far more successful. Congratulations and thanks for the feedback. 

    2Reply
  • James York
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes
    5y

    @Mark Cruse no it’s not Kevin’s fault. I know because he’s decided I’d never survive a day in his market based on this conversation. He’s got it figured out. 

    3Reply
  • Brandon Ingegneri
    Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    5y

    Over the years I would say that the majority of my subsidized tenants have been a good experience if they were not inherited from a previous owner, and I was the one that screened them. There is definitely a pool of hard working responsible people out there who qualify for the program if you look. By the same token, there are those lifelong victims who believe the world owes them everything, will never be satisfied, and who display zero respect for anyone or anything. They do not last long at all.

    I have had a continuous Section 8 tenant since 2013. She has lived in two of my buildings, and she is the absolutely among the most respectful and attentive tenants I have had. Her Section 8 has nothing to do with that aspect of her personality, her sense of responsibility, and the meticulous nature that she cares for our units.

    2Reply
  • Chuck Bigham
    Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 10 votes
    5y

    Meh. Section 8 tenants ..got to take em one at a time like everyone else. 2 experiences..

    1. PM asks me to take a sec 8 tenant. Old lady, ill. So infirm she needs constant nurse presence, her daughter to move in, has tubes attached to her, etc. (In CA you can get paid to take care of a relative) I agree. The daughter probably fits previously mentioned profile. Her kids (adults) begin to move in not on lease. A daughter (late 20's) with 2 babies, 2 different men...just there temporarily. (so they said) Then the "nurse's " son moved in who began to deal drugs. (Late 20's) Working to resolve that was fun. 

    2. PM asks me on another bldg I just rehabbed if I would take sec 8 tenant. Had an ideal one. Cautious at first (my first sec 8) I agreed. She was a handicapped woman, 2 kids. During the course of rehabbing another unit, I stopped by to meet her unannounced late afternoon. I must have looked workmanlike. Rang the bell. . After some time door opens..no one there. I look down, there she is.  On floor with a skid where pants would be. No legs. Looked up, 2 kids were studying on table one I guess 6th grade, other 8th, 9th. We chatted a bit, told her who I was, asked if she needed anything? Nope. Thanked me for taking her in. House was immaculately clean. Story I got she lost her legs in a car accident, husband(?) lost his life.  Each time I stopped by was same calm, clean. 

    Section 8! Never know whatchu gonna get.

    0Reply
  • Lam N.
    Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mark Cruse:

    This is a great venue but I sincerely hope the admins take heed to all the bigoted and discriminatory comments expressed by inexperienced investors. It´s tragic, but when you hear others expound on their racist or prejudiced experiences don´t be so quick to dismiss them. So much of the view points are coming from a scope of ignorance and people with inadequate business ability. It´s truly sad but something I always knew was present and thriving...............

     I'm sorry you feel this way.  

    My properties happen to be in whiter than white area.  I actually have 1 honest-to-god black tenant... and he's only half black.  White mother.

    So, my experiences with section 8 in the past had nothing to do with race.  And I'm neither black nor white.

    It is great that some people on here have had great experiences with section 8.  But for me, the worst experiences I've had with renters have been strictly section 8 people.  Not to mention the bureaucratic nightmare that surrounds this program.

    Where I am at, there are plenty of landlords who participate in this program.  The market really doesn't miss me, I don't think.

    0Reply
  • Lam N.
    Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @William Bucklin:

    I’m pretty sure it’s illegal not to accept section 8 tenants based on them having section 8.

     Depends on where you are.  Where I'm at, we can choose not to participate in the program.

    0Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Lam N. Hey, I understand. Many of my low income tenants are white and several mentalities are more synonymous with income class level as opposed to race, but I´m sure you know what country you live in. Many of the perspectives here without question are being attached to pigmentation, justifying their own failure and ability to manage operations in their business. An administrative paper voucher does not take control of an individual´s mind and automatically make them have the desire to tear up your property, move in their baby daddy or be too dumb to fill out applications. It was on Bigger Pockets where I heard multiple times that section 8 rentals need animal cages.  These are the very same dog whistles that were put out, making it justifiable in some minds to openly discriminate against certain segments of society. Some of it may be subconscious and some may feel more emboldened to voice open prejudice due to the current political climate but like stated before; if all these things happen to some landlords who deal with section 8 and it rarely happens to others, it would be intelligent to see what those other people are doing differently. 

    2Reply
  • Kevin R.
    Attorney · Mobile Alabama · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 15 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mark Cruse:


    @Kevin Ryan

    if you encounter all those horrific elements and many others tell you they dont, couldn´t it be suggested that it may a flaw in the way you operate your business? 

    From personal experience, Section 8 is not worth the investment, in my own opinion and from my own experiences with it, for several years.  If you have the magic formula by all means, take it on. I'm not stopping you.     

    0Reply
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