Tenant threatens to sue me for $20 000

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Tenant threatens to sue me for $20 000

Maciej G.
Chicago · Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 17 votes

Hello everyone

I am relatively new to being a landlord and today I had very unusual situation that I don't exactly know how to tackle.

I own a 3 story building with poor attic insulation and during the summer the attic gets very hot, since there is only one window the tenant can only have 1 AC unit that can't cool the entire place down. Recently the thermostat was showing 90 degrees for couple of days and tenant was very upset about it (understandably) and informed me about the excessive heat in the unit. I immediately called the contractors to see what can be done, and decided that best option would be to insulate the attic. I was very fast and scheduled 3 contractors the next day. This job should cost me about 1400$ for blown insulation. Later I called an HVAC guy for estimate and he said to install central AC it would cost about 3500 - 4000$. I went to talk to the tenant today and he was very angry at me, and started to make threats. He said he used to be a lawyer with big experience but had to quit due to his temper. He later said that he wants to sue me for 20 000 $ an amount that will include move out/in fees, lawyer fees, days off he took when contractors were doing their job and place was too hot. He demanded of me to install central AC or he will have to take this matter to court. When I went to see him today after part of the place was already insulated he gave me all this talk and under the pressure I said I would waive the next month's rent, and if the place is still hot we will install central AC. 


I wanted to ask more experienced landlords how should I have handled this situation. Does the tenant have basis to sue me if I do everything I can to fix the issue ASAP. Last question I have is that what should happen in a situation where tenant asks for upgrades that I cannot afford ?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

I really don't mean to insult you, but I'm giving you the cold, hard truth. This is a great example of how some people are too inexperienced or ill-suited for managing their own rentals. Tenants love to threaten lawsuits, particularly tenants that can barely afford their rent. I literally laughed out loud when I read that he lost his license due to a bad temper!

You shouldn't have given him anything. It's not your fault that it's hot. You weren't negligent. You didn't lie. You're not purposefully causing the sun to expend energy on the home. And you're doing what you can to seek solutions, which is far beyond what you need to do.

My #1 recommendation is that you find a good property manager to take over until you learn a little more about how to handle renters. If that's not an option, my recommendation is that you at least tell this tenant that he's clearly not going to be happy in the rental, you can't afford central A/C, and he should just move to something better suited for his hot head.

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  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    First, you probably are not required to provide cool air.  You are required to provide heat.  However temperatures as high as stated can cause damage to your property, so you may want to consider that in responding.

    Second, to lower the temperature, you should start with the cheapest options that will work first.  The insulation was a great start.  Next do not go straight to a $5k solution, look at attic fans or roof vents.  Then look at mini-splits, which will help with the Winter heat too, then more window/bigger window/wall units, then lastly forced air.

    And NEVER give in to a tenant who threatens you.  Once you do they will use that every time they want something.  So expect a request for a new frig, new stove, maybe a laundry room upgrade...they will keep coming until you get the ability to say "what you had when you signed the lease is all you get for the lease duration".  Its hard at first, you want to please, but you need to know when you do give in, you are training your tenant on how to work with you.  

    2Reply
  • Polo VazquezPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · McAllen, TX · Member since 2017 · 382 posts · 281 votes
    5y

    This post has become quite fun to read hahaha. The tenant threats scenarios are too funny. I once posted a "Pay or we will start the eviction process in 3 days" notice and the wife immediatelly called me to tell me that I didn't know what I was doing and that what I had done was illegal. She also said she knows all of this because she is a lawyer (she isn't even an American citizen :S). Fortunately her husband called afterwards and we worked it out. He paid the rent that same day.

    So it appears that tenants being "Professional Lawyers" happens way more often than I thought.

    0Reply
  • Pete Harper
    Rental Property Investor · Streetman, TX · Member since 2018 · 528 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    @Maciej G.

    Just a thought. $20,000 is the limit for small claims court in my state. Your tenant is likely smart enough to know he can file a claim for under $150. Additionally you don’t need to hire a lawyer in small claims. He can represent himself further reducing his costs. By the same virtue you don’t need a lawyer either. You can represent yourself. If you loose in small claims you have the right to appeal. He is likely bluffing anyway.

    Best option is the get rid of him. He’s going to be more trouble in the future. Offer to break his lease, cash for keys or last months rent free.

    0Reply
  • Shiva Bhaskar
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 476 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    I rented to a work-from-home attorney and I quickly learned why he worked from home. He was late on rent for the third time, and this is the response he sent me:

    Dear Nathan:

    Thank you for your recent correspondence. You have contacted me on several occasions to collect an outstanding debt you claim is owed. I am contacting you to formally request validation of the alleged debt concerning this account and to inform you that I hereby dispute the validity of this debt.

    I am also requesting you provide documentation showing I am, and should be, the party responsible for paying for improvements made to the property I rent. As you recall, I spent $1,130.00 for the removal of the tree, stump, petrified wood, installation of more gravel and labor associated therewith. See attached Invoice.

    Through this letter, I hereby request proof that I am indeed the party you are asking to pay this alleged debt, and for proof that there is a binding contractual obligation to pay this alleged debt. Please provide adequate validation of this alleged debt, including but not limited to documentation of:

    • Complete payment history, the requirement of which has been established via Spears v. Brennan, 745 N.E. 2d 862 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001);
    • The agreement bearing the signature of me, wherein I agreed to pay;
    • The letter of sale or assignment from the original creditor to your company. (Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt.) Coppola v. Arrow Financial Services, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26788 (D. Conn. 2002) - Information relating to the purchase of a bad debt is neither proprietary nor burdensome. Debtor must clearly phrase their request to obtain: the source of a debt and the amount a bad debt buyer paid for plaintiff’s debt; how amount sought was calculated; where in issue a list of reports to credit bureaus; and documents conferring authority on third party to collect debt.
    • Documentation of the creation of the debt with your collection agency.

    Under FDCPA Section 809 (b), you are not allowed to pursue collection activity until the debt is validated. You should be made aware that reporting a collection account is indeed considered a collection activity. Boatley v. Diem Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 5089 (D. Ariz. 2004.

    Please be advised that I am enforcing my rights under the FDCPA and under Wyoming's Landlord/Tenant Act, and that this correspondence shall in no way reflect a waiver of any of the rights prescribed under either of those Acts which are not expressly asserted herein. Please cease your collection activity until I receive confirmation through the above information requested. Please also direct any future correspondence to me in writing.

    Sincerely,

    Ambulance chaser (name changed to protect the guilty)

    Here's my response:

    Dear Ambulance Chaser,

    Our lease agreement allows you the use of the property at 123 Straight St in exchange for rent. That's my authority.

    The landscaping improvements were requested by you and approved by the owner. You specifically told us - in writing - that you would pay for these improvements yourself. Perhaps the attached agreement signed by you will jog your memory.

    I'm a simple guy and don't feel threatened by legal jargon or $5 words. Pay according to our agreement or we can finish this discussion in front of Judge Hammer. Perhaps he'll be more easily swayed by your legal gymnastics.

    Best regards,

    Nate

    Needless to say, he paid and he stayed for another six months.

    Nicely done. I'm a lawyer who deals with consumer credit issues, and the FDCPA does not even apply to an original creditor (i.e. a landlord). This lawyer could not even bother to do some basic research. My profession truly attracts some morons. 

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

    Hello everyone

    I am relatively new to being a landlord and today I had very unusual situation that I don't exactly know how to tackle.

    I own a 3 story building with poor attic insulation and during the summer the attic gets very hot, since there is only one window the tenant can only have 1 AC unit that can't cool the entire place down. Recently the thermostat was showing 90 degrees for couple of days and tenant was very upset about it (understandably) and informed me about the excessive heat in the unit. I immediately called the contractors to see what can be done, and decided that best option would be to insulate the attic. I was very fast and scheduled 3 contractors the next day. This job should cost me about 1400$ for blown insulation. Later I called an HVAC guy for estimate and he said to install central AC it would cost about 3500 - 4000$. I went to talk to the tenant today and he was very angry at me, and started to make threats. He said he used to be a lawyer with big experience but had to quit due to his temper. He later said that he wants to sue me for 20 000 $ an amount that will include move out/in fees, lawyer fees, days off he took when contractors were doing their job and place was too hot. He demanded of me to install central AC or he will have to take this matter to court. When I went to see him today after part of the place was already insulated he gave me all this talk and under the pressure I said I would waive the next month's rent, and if the place is still hot we will install central AC. 


    I wanted to ask more experienced landlords how should I have handled this situation. Does the tenant have basis to sue me if I do everything I can to fix the issue ASAP. Last question I have is that what should happen in a situation where tenant asks for upgrades that I cannot afford ?

     lol don't worry about this fool. If I had a dollar for every time a tenant threatened to sue me I'd be a rich landlor.....uhhhh nvm.

    0Reply
  • Henry Lazerow
    Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Just offer a free month and allow them to break the lease. Ignore any legal threats unless you get actually served 99% of time tenants are BS'ing about suing. You do need to have the unit lower temperature but the fact you immediately got contractors out which is the right thing to do shows you aren't negligent. 

    0Reply
  • Christina M.
    Rental Property Investor · PA · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 60 votes
    5y

    @Maciej G can you install a larger BTU unit in window or there are floor size units I see in older homes or mini-splits? You need an immediate solution to give you time to think this through best long term solution.

    0Reply
  • Christina M.
    Rental Property Investor · PA · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 60 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G. I manage my properties and I manage by tenants. None of my tenants would ever speak to me that way. The one in 30 years that tried was evicted. Ten years ago I tried a property management company fired them within months. That's not always a solution. We learn by experience. This Tenant needs to be managed clear communication and a mutually agreed reasonable solution.

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:

    And NEVER give in to a tenant who threatens you.  Once you do they will use that every time they want something.  

    ^^^^ As the old saying goes - 'we teach people how to treat us'

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Maciej G.  Unless the AC is provided by you there is no obligation by you, let him sue. You state this is 3 units so central air will create problems for you if you are adding AC to all units (who pays electric?).  I would just say you aren't happy here, I will let you leave in x days without penalty or you can stay knowing this is the setup here and I don't want to hear anymore. He can get an 18 or 20, 000  BTU AC if he wants.  If you are providing the AC then you need to upgrade it and probably not provide next time.

    0Reply
  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Karl B. Well said. That tenant is begging to break the lease and probably using the AC issue as leverage to do so. You had me laughing with the jabroni comment.

    1Reply
  • Justin H.
    Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    5y

    @Jim K.

    Normally I agree with you guys as your comments have provided me with plenty of knowledge and education. However the poster is admittedly a new landlord and is seeking advice on how to handle this matter appropriately. How is he supposed to become a good landlord without going through these management situations. Learning on the job and asking for advice along the way is the best way to learn. This is a great learning situation on how to not be passive, knowing your lease terms and local laws, and sticking to your guns when a tenant thinks he runs the show. I don’t think hiring a property manager is necessary at this stage.

    1Reply
  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    @Maciej G. - things that immediately concern me, why is there one window in the whole unit?  Is the unit legal on the zoning cert?  Does it have 2 forms of egress?

    Is air conditioning included in your lease?  Do you occupy the building?  According to the RLTO you have 48 hours to correct a problem like this and 90 degrees would not be considered habitable by the city

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  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Justin H.:

    @Jim K.

    Normally I agree with you guys as your comments have provided me with plenty of knowledge and education. However the poster is admittedly a new landlord and is seeking advice on how to handle this matter appropriately. How is he supposed to become a good landlord without going through these management situations. Learning on the job and asking for advice along the way is the best way to learn. This is a great learning situation on how to not be passive, knowing your lease terms and local laws, and sticking to your guns when a tenant thinks he runs the show. I don’t think hiring a property manager is necessary at this stage.

    I think this poster needs a hands-on helping hand at this point, and it will be a lot cheaper than trying to figure things out on his own. There a significant deficit of technical and professional knowhow to get past here. So you definitely have a point, Justin, but this teachable moment is more of a nightmare now.

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Eric James:

    "Since you're suing me we can no longer communicate directly.  All communication most be from your lawyer to mine. We can't speak directly anymore." He isn't really going to sue you, but you can use that to stop talking with him, lol.

     I was waiting for this answer^^ This is what an attorney will recommend. Once someone threatens litigation, you should not talk to them. Most the time tenants will quickly retract their threat once they realize their escalation was met with another escalation. 

    Bottom line, there are three solutions to this problem and none of them involve him getting free rent or you being liable. Let him pick the option that works best:

    1. Accept the property as, with no central air as his lease is written. People lived in that property for probably over 50 years with no AC or just window unit. We didn't have AC when I was a kid and it would get to over 90 degrees in the house. We went shopping at KMart to cool down. 

    2. Be appreciative that you are taking actions to improve the situation with insulation and installing the AC unit. Work with you on this improvement since it is not your responsibility to go beyond the lease. 

    3. Let him break the lease and move out. This is probably the preferred situation since this tenant is likely to continue causing problems. 

    Those are the options. Have your attorney contact him and ask him what he wants to do. 

    Keep in mind that when people get hot, they get stressed and crabby. It is very common for tenants to be nasty when the air conditioning goes out. Cut a little slack for that and focus on a solution.

    1Reply
  • Matt Bishop
    Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2020 · 50 posts · 41 votes
    5y

    @Maciej G. I have hired a professional property management company with genuine legal professionals on tap to handle everything. You don’t need this stress. Hire a great professional property manager and enjoy your life. When you get a chance, improve the comfort of your rental with improved attic ventilation, spray foam insulation Central Heat- Air Conditioning. Quality windows and solar window screens. An investment in your future. You’re going to attract better quality tenants, improve rents, happy tenant will not move.

    1Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I think this individual senses that you are new and knows he can get away with talking sht to scare you into doing stuff. Believe me, if you do foot the bill for central AC, he will run you through the mill for dozens of other things. It is your property and you are the boss. You should NEVER allow them to feel they have that kind of leverage over you, especially if there is no negligence involved. There are no laws that I know of in this nation which says you have to provide AC in the first place let alone a specific temperature. From that vantage point, Id be fair and offer possible mitigation and light concessions. If they don't like it, happy trails. I'd let them roll out. My goodness! I have condos at a ski resort that I Airbnb out. One has a problem and gets steamy at times. I cant imagine a client telling me they will sue me for 20k. 

    0Reply
  • Joseph Hummel
    Rental Property Investor · Crystal Bay · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 38 votes
    5y

    @Maciej G.

    Maybe someone with a local jurisdiction could chime in but at far as international building code goes- there is a heat minimum for a home - but like I said some local areas could have their own laws regarding this.

    What I would check is your lease - did they move in with any expectation that a/c would be provided or included?

    And of course they are just upset- a civil suit would cost them so much more- but maybe you could pay them to leave and get someone into the newly outfitted unit and avoid the headache.

    0Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Joseph Hummel if there was a heat minimum, would that make every building from the Mid Atlantic all the way down south in some kind of violation if their buildings have no AC? I mean I do understand if there is negligence or something like a a malfunctioning boiler which pushed temps to 120 degrees, but many places have no AC. There would be millions of 20k law suits all over this nation. 

    0Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I apologize if I skipped through this but I am unclear who owns the AC.  If it is yours, you need to get a better one if it was agreed upon you were providing AC.  I don't think anyone who rented an apartment that advertises AC would expect the apartment to get over 90 but after this tenant leaves I would suggest removing it and having the tenant provide their own.  If the tenant is providing their own AC this really changes things, they need to get a better one but it was still nice of you to upgrade the insulation.  The current one is not adequate but the question is whose fault is that and that is whoever is providing it.  I would offer the happy clause and let the tenant know they are free to leave since they are not happy, no notice necessary.  If they refuse you can't non-renew based on requests as that can be seen as retaliation however it may be about time to make some upgrades that need to be done while the unit is empty.  

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2021 · 11 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Any lawyer worth their salt doesn't threaten to sue, they spring it on you if they can.

    1Reply
  • Nicki Shelton
    Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2021 · 92 posts · 32 votes
    5y

    @Maciej G a radiant barrier for the attic might be an option unless the insulation is all ready completed. That will help keep the heat out and the cool in.

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Maciej G.   Hi,  I wonder if you are reading this and what did you wind up doing??

    0Reply
  • Russ B.
    Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes
    5y

    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    I rented to a work-from-home attorney and I quickly learned why he worked from home. He was late on rent for the third time, and this is the response he sent me:

    Dear Nathan:

    Thank you for your recent correspondence. You have contacted me on several occasions to collect an outstanding debt you claim is owed. I am contacting you to formally request validation of the alleged debt concerning this account and to inform you that I hereby dispute the validity of this debt.

    I am also requesting you provide documentation showing I am, and should be, the party responsible for paying for improvements made to the property I rent. As you recall, I spent $1,130.00 for the removal of the tree, stump, petrified wood, installation of more gravel and labor associated therewith. See attached Invoice.

    Through this letter, I hereby request proof that I am indeed the party you are asking to pay this alleged debt, and for proof that there is a binding contractual obligation to pay this alleged debt. Please provide adequate validation of this alleged debt, including but not limited to documentation of:

    • Complete payment history, the requirement of which has been established via Spears v. Brennan, 745 N.E. 2d 862 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001);
    • The agreement bearing the signature of me, wherein I agreed to pay;
    • The letter of sale or assignment from the original creditor to your company. (Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt.) Coppola v. Arrow Financial Services, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26788 (D. Conn. 2002) - Information relating to the purchase of a bad debt is neither proprietary nor burdensome. Debtor must clearly phrase their request to obtain: the source of a debt and the amount a bad debt buyer paid for plaintiff’s debt; how amount sought was calculated; where in issue a list of reports to credit bureaus; and documents conferring authority on third party to collect debt.
    • Documentation of the creation of the debt with your collection agency.

    Under FDCPA Section 809 (b), you are not allowed to pursue collection activity until the debt is validated. You should be made aware that reporting a collection account is indeed considered a collection activity. Boatley v. Diem Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 5089 (D. Ariz. 2004.

    Please be advised that I am enforcing my rights under the FDCPA and under Wyoming's Landlord/Tenant Act, and that this correspondence shall in no way reflect a waiver of any of the rights prescribed under either of those Acts which are not expressly asserted herein. Please cease your collection activity until I receive confirmation through the above information requested. Please also direct any future correspondence to me in writing.

    Sincerely,

    Ambulance chaser (name changed to protect the guilty)

    Here's my response:

    Dear Ambulance Chaser,

    Our lease agreement allows you the use of the property at 123 Straight St in exchange for rent. That's my authority.

    The landscaping improvements were requested by you and approved by the owner. You specifically told us - in writing - that you would pay for these improvements yourself. Perhaps the attached agreement signed by you will jog your memory.

    I'm a simple guy and don't feel threatened by legal jargon or $5 words. Pay according to our agreement or we can finish this discussion in front of Judge Hammer. Perhaps he'll be more easily swayed by your legal gymnastics.

    Best regards,

    Nate

    Needless to say, he paid and he stayed for another six months.

    For a minute, I thought you actually replied, "Dear ambulance chaser".. that would have been pretty funny 😀

    0Reply
  • Julian Colvard
    Property Manager · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 83 posts · 42 votes
    5y

    Don't let his guy punk you, and never let them see you to be so quick to give out incentives to not complain (such as waiving rent). I've found that many people will test you just to see how much they can get away with, so out your foot down, and let him know, that if thinks that he can sue, then he should do what he thinks is best for him. 

    Make sure to document EVERYTHING you do and all communications with him. You're moving fast to take care of the issue, so as long as you can prove this, he does not have a case unless you let the problem linger on.
    If the tenant demands or ask for upgrades, it's your call if you will allow them to pay for those themselves. You are not obligated to make upgrades -- especially if they saw the property and walked it before they signed the lease and or if they sent you back the property inspection sheet from when they first moved in and did not request anything be repaired or upgraded. PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN. I like to be emotionless when dealing with tenants face to face, and I always let them know that I'm the property manager and not the owner.

    Some tenants deserve to be treated better than other, and from what you have posted, this one doesn't. Keep everything black and white with him, only communicate through text & emails, and think about whether or not to allow him to renew his lease. Don't be scared or let a tenant punk you, ever. They will only continue the behavior if they see they can get results from it.

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