Tenant threatens to sue me for $20 000

Real Estate Agent · McAllen, TX · Member since 2017 · 382 posts · 281 votes

Wow! He is probably BSing you though. All tenants claim to be lawyers bla bla bla! I would have taken the same route you did. Offer them one months free rent or offer them to allow them to break the lease and move out. You are doing what you can and in a reasonable time. Most states would recognize this and help you out. However there are some states that protect tenants a lot...

Nontheless do take care of the issues! Having you tenant living in extreme heat or cold is a big No No!

8 Reply

Chris Matthew

Rental Property Investor · Waterville, NY · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 26 votes

5y

@Maciej G in my opinion you have gone above and beyond with attempting to mitigate the situation.

Did you supply the ac unit? Is it functioning properly? Is it sufficiently sized to cool the space? Is air conditioning required? In my area, heat is required, AC is not. So, if you didn’t supply the ac unit it could just as easily be argued that the unit is failing and pumping heat into the unit creating the condition(tenants fault). Your attempts to increase insulation is more than reasonable. If this guy is an attorney he should be smart enough to know that top level apartments get hot in the summer. And to know that he signed a contract to rent the apartment in the condition it was in. Those conditions did not change by any act of you or anyone else. He decided the conditions were unfavorable.

I don’t think I’d have offered the free months rent. You were made aware of undesirable conditions and made immediate attempts to address the problem through a capitol improvement not just a simple repair.

If it was an ac unit you supplied then yes, it would be your responsibility to ensure it was functioning properly.

I really don’t think he has a leg to stand on in court. You went above and beyond in a short timeframe.

15 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

Hello everyone

I am relatively new to being a landlord and today I had very unusual situation that I don't exactly know how to tackle.

I own a 3 story building with poor attic insulation and during the summer the attic gets very hot, since there is only one window the tenant can only have 1 AC unit that can't cool the entire place down. Recently the thermostat was showing 90 degrees for couple of days and tenant was very upset about it (understandably) and informed me about the excessive heat in the unit. I immediately called the contractors to see what can be done, and decided that best option would be to insulate the attic. I was very fast and scheduled 3 contractors the next day. This job should cost me about 1400$ for blown insulation. Later I called an HVAC guy for estimate and he said to install central AC it would cost about 3500 - 4000$. I went to talk to the tenant today and he was very angry at me, and started to make threats. He said he used to be a lawyer with big experience but had to quit due to his temper. He later said that he wants to sue me for 20 000 $ an amount that will include move out/in fees, lawyer fees, days off he took when contractors were doing their job and place was too hot. He demanded of me to install central AC or he will have to take this matter to court. When I went to see him today after part of the place was already insulated he gave me all this talk and under the pressure I said I would waive the next month's rent, and if the place is still hot we will install central AC.

I wanted to ask more experienced landlords how should I have handled this situation. Does the tenant have basis to sue me if I do everything I can to fix the issue ASAP. Last question I have is that what should happen in a situation where tenant asks for upgrades that I cannot afford ?

I would have asked for his BAR # and which state. Then I'd check to see if indeed he had been a lawyer and what his disciplinary actions were. If he wouldn't give that information, I'd call it B.S. Taking you to court will cost him a lot more than he can receive in court. That one is a no starter, just a threat. He has to prove damages and you haven't stated anything a judge would award damages over.

Putting in insulation is a good investment for you long term. It should cut down on costs and complaints.

If the tenant demands upgrades you can't do, I'd give him whatever notice is applicable in the jurisdiction to tell him to go pound sand and find another place to live. But, I would do it nicely. ;-)

9 Reply

David P.

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

5y

I thought if a tenant got the unit without AC then he is getting the unit As Is condition and can not ask for upgrades later on. If he wants to do them on his own then he can get your permission.

2 Reply

Karl B.

Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

I'd start by telling him that most lawyers will be spending eternity in a place that's always hot so get used to it.

Then I'd tell him I'll gladly let him out of his lease if he doesn't like the place. After all, there wasn't A.C. in the unit when the clown decided to move in. And then after the jabroni moved out I would consider installing A.C. for the nice, appreciative tenant I replaced him with.

25 Reply

Allen L.

Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes

5y

Central AC sounds like the long term solution. The tenant needs to go, don't offer him next month free, offer him his last month free and he's allowed to break lease now. Chance he hates the place he will take it. Keeping picky tenants is a headache you don't want to deal with. Attic insulation is one of those things that I am not sure how much practical effect there is, I only add attic insulation whenever the government subsidizes the cost, and after it's done I don't see any cost saving in my utilities bills (student rentals).

7 Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

I really don't mean to insult you, but I'm giving you the cold, hard truth. This is a great example of how some people are too inexperienced or ill-suited for managing their own rentals. Tenants love to threaten lawsuits, particularly tenants that can barely afford their rent. I literally laughed out loud when I read that he lost his license due to a bad temper!

You shouldn't have given him anything. It's not your fault that it's hot. You weren't negligent. You didn't lie. You're not purposefully causing the sun to expend energy on the home. And you're doing what you can to seek solutions, which is far beyond what you need to do.

My #1 recommendation is that you find a good property manager to take over until you learn a little more about how to handle renters. If that's not an option, my recommendation is that you at least tell this tenant that he's clearly not going to be happy in the rental, you can't afford central A/C, and he should just move to something better suited for his hot head.

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25 Reply

Gail K.

Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

You'll often hear tenants who are upset say they are going to "call their lawyer" like they've got Mr. Biggie Lawyer right on their speed dial. These are often tenants who (excuse my english) don't have a pot to piss in.

This is the first time I've heard an tenant claim to be a lawyer (before he lost his license).

Ignore the threats on this clown. It appears you are addressing the poor insulation in the attic situation. That may help the heat situation although we've been having unusually hot weather in many parts of the country. Install central air and the next thing this guy is likely to complain about is his high electric bill.

Keep in mind that in many states a landlord must provide reliable and working plumbing, electrical and heat. Often air conditioning is not a requirement (and certainly not central air). It appears he does have the benefit of a window unit.

If you do fork over the big bucks for central air; don't renew this guys lease when it normally ends and increase the rent for the next tenant as you are now providing central air in your property.

Gail

3 Reply

Linda Thomas

Rental Property Investor · Allentown PA · Member since 2021 · 159 posts · 36 votes

5y

Tell him to buy window ac units if it's too hot and you didn't rent him a unit with central ac or anything in the lease states that ac is included in the lease agreement. You did more than most would have done.

0 Reply

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

5y

Put in an attic fan and have a ridge vent installed , it will move heat from the attic space . Then tell the tenant he is free to leave

1 Reply

Eric James

Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

"Since you're suing me we can no longer communicate directly. All communication most be from your lawyer to mine. We can't speak directly anymore." He isn't really going to sue you, but you can use that to stop talking with him, lol.

18 Reply

Craig Janet

Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes

5y

Can you just get a bigger window unit. They make them up to 20,000 BTUs that would make most apartments cold as a meat locker. You may have to do some electric work. Even a 115 volt 12,000 BTU should keep it well below 90 degrees.

3 Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Eric James:

"Since you're suing me we can no longer communicate directly. All communication most be from your lawyer to mine. We can't speak directly anymore." He isn't really going to sue you, but you can use that to stop talking with him, lol.

I've done this many, many times. I send them my attorney's contact information, but for some reason he never hears from their attorney. Interesting.

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Daniel SmythPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2019 · 471 posts · 342 votes

5y

@Maciej G.

Used to, could a, would a, didn't!

Anything you do to accommodate your tenant is a positive thing. The tenant is in your property because he cannot afford a place with central air and a nice pool!

Let him sue you!

Unless you made promises in writing that his whole living area would be 68 degrees or something, he has no case!

The window unit you had when he moved in, should be good enough, unless it does not function as it did.

However, there are larger air conditioners and there are fans to help circulation from the other rooms. I do this in my house right now.

Insulation of the attic. If you have the cash, do it right, and you will save on more that your tenant's temper.

I had my attic vacuumed of all old insulation.

I then sprayed foam around every junction box and other penetration. I got up there in the day time, shut off the lights, and sealed off all light!

I did this so I could understand what it takes to do the job. I will hire it done in the next house I buy.

I blew insulation inside the house and also found some roof areas that were leaking a small bit. I fixed the leaks before the insulation was installed!

Lots of work! I know it was done right, and I know what I will have done the next time.

If the A/C unit is your responsibility, buy a new unit, perhaps a bit larger than the old. If the air conditioner is not your job, advise your tenant of this, and offer suggestions.

I would seek to seal and insulate your attic in September, as it's a bit hot right now, even though it's nice and cool today outside.

Message me directly if you need more advice or ideas.

If the expense is too great now, work on a budget to do it in the spring. Investments are best done before it's an emergency!

[email protected]

0 Reply

Curtis Mears

Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes

5y

@Maciej G.

Did he rent the property knowing it has no ac? I live in the south, so evert house has ac, but in cooler areas, do all houses have ac? If the property was rented as not having ac, then he should kniw that he will be uncomfortable in warmer weather. I would never rent a place without ac as I do not like sleeping in the heat, so why did he rent it if he knew there was no ac?

0 Reply

Russ B.

Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes

5y

When someone gets all huffy and says they're gonna "call their lawyer" in a big scary voice, I simply pull up the contact information for mine.

Usually shuts em right up 🙂

1 Reply

Jeffrey Donis

Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 691 votes

5y

I agree with @Polo Vazquez. I think you were reasonable. It doesn't seem like you did anything that was unjust. Also, depending on the state, central AC is not required. So, you don't NEED to provide it (but, check your local laws to be safe)!

0 Reply

Jim K.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

I really don't mean to insult you, but I'm giving you the cold, hard truth. This is a great example of how some people are too inexperienced or ill-suited for managing their own rentals. Tenants love to threaten lawsuits, particularly tenants that can barely afford their rent. I literally laughed out loud when I read that he lost his license due to a bad temper!

You shouldn't have given him anything. It's not your fault that it's hot. You weren't negligent. You didn't lie. You're not purposefully causing the sun to expend energy on the home. And you're doing what you can to seek solutions, which is far beyond what you need to do.

My #1 recommendation is that you find a good property manager to take over until you learn a little more about how to handle renters. If that's not an option, my recommendation is that you at least tell this tenant that he's clearly not going to be happy in the rental, you can't afford central A/C, and he should just move to something better suited for his hot head.

I am forced to agree 100% with this. I suspect you need to step away from property management and focus on your strengths. Handling tenants is a difficult, thankless job and there's a learning curve.

1 Reply

Dan H.Pro Member

Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

I really don't mean to insult you, but I'm giving you the cold, hard truth. This is a great example of how some people are too inexperienced or ill-suited for managing their own rentals. Tenants love to threaten lawsuits, particularly tenants that can barely afford their rent. I literally laughed out loud when I read that he lost his license due to a bad temper!

You shouldn't have given him anything. It's not your fault that it's hot. You weren't negligent. You didn't lie. You're not purposefully causing the sun to expend energy on the home. And you're doing what you can to seek solutions, which is far beyond what you need to do.

My #1 recommendation is that you find a good property manager to take over until you learn a little more about how to handle renters. If that's not an option, my recommendation is that you at least tell this tenant that he's clearly not going to be happy in the rental, you can't afford central A/C, and he should just move to something better suited for his hot head.

I did not see one post on asset protection. There are many ways to have asset protection. We have an LLC that would get pierced by any lawyer that is worth their pay, but may discourage some lazy lawyers. Our primary asset protection is that we have a $10M umbrella policy. I like the umbrella policy because any lawsuit will result in my insurer providing lawyers to protect their assets.

There are 1000s of units that do not have any AC. When it gets hot, they are not great places to be. There in no merit for a lawsuit. Having an AC that cannot keep up does not merit a lawsuit. Having an AC that breaks and is fixed in a timely manner does not merit a lawsuit.

I get threats of being sued almost monthly. Most, such as the threat of lawsuit you received, have no merit. A few have minimal merit. I have never been sued as a landlord. More importantly, because I have solid asset protection, threat of lawsuit does not bother me.

There is a local lawyer who has threatened lawsuits multiple times. I have started calling him two-bit, short of two-bit lawyer. The last time he threatened lawsuit I told him "Two-Bit, I hope you have a lot of money because I have expensive lawyers and will be counter suing for legal fees". His response was to curse at me (more justification of the nickname I have given him). I have considered posting a big sign for his birthday saying "Happy Birthday Two-Bit".

So, 1) I think the threat of lawsuit is only a threat; it has no merit. If it did have merit, 1000s of tenants without AC would have the same case. 2) Make sure your assets are protected. I use an umbrella policy for that purpose, but do the research (or pay someone who already knows) for the right protection for you 3) consider using a professional PM or recognize that you need to increase your knowledge related to managing properties.

Good luck

2 Reply

Patrick Knapp

Contractor · Wake Forest, NC · Member since 2019 · 138 posts · 132 votes

5y

@Karl B. Damn that's funny hahahahahaha

Ya I would tell him ok sue me or leave your choice.

0 Reply

Derrick Dill

Investor · Hawaiian Gardens, CA · Member since 2015 · 308 posts · 386 votes

5y

just upgrade the window unit to 15000-20000 BTU.

1 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

5y

You're doing more than enough......and whatever advice you choose to take, make sure you get rid of this clown. Once an Ahole, always an Ahole.....

0 Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

5y

I rented to a work-from-home attorney and I quickly learned why he worked from home. He was late on rent for the third time, and this is the response he sent me:

Dear Nathan:

Thank you for your recent correspondence. You have contacted me on several occasions to collect an outstanding debt you claim is owed. I am contacting you to formally request validation of the alleged debt concerning this account and to inform you that I hereby dispute the validity of this debt.

I am also requesting you provide documentation showing I am, and should be, the party responsible for paying for improvements made to the property I rent. As you recall, I spent $1,130.00 for the removal of the tree, stump, petrified wood, installation of more gravel and labor associated therewith. See attached Invoice.

Through this letter, I hereby request proof that I am indeed the party you are asking to pay this alleged debt, and for proof that there is a binding contractual obligation to pay this alleged debt. Please provide adequate validation of this alleged debt, including but not limited to documentation of:

Complete payment history, the requirement of which has been established via Spears v. Brennan, 745 N.E. 2d 862 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001);
The agreement bearing the signature of me, wherein I agreed to pay;
The letter of sale or assignment from the original creditor to your company. (Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt.) Coppola v. Arrow Financial Services, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26788 (D. Conn. 2002) - Information relating to the purchase of a bad debt is neither proprietary nor burdensome. Debtor must clearly phrase their request to obtain: the source of a debt and the amount a bad debt buyer paid for plaintiff’s debt; how amount sought was calculated; where in issue a list of reports to credit bureaus; and documents conferring authority on third party to collect debt.
Documentation of the creation of the debt with your collection agency.

Under FDCPA Section 809 (b), you are not allowed to pursue collection activity until the debt is validated. You should be made aware that reporting a collection account is indeed considered a collection activity. Boatley v. Diem Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 5089 (D. Ariz. 2004.

Please be advised that I am enforcing my rights under the FDCPA and under Wyoming's Landlord/Tenant Act, and that this correspondence shall in no way reflect a waiver of any of the rights prescribed under either of those Acts which are not expressly asserted herein. Please cease your collection activity until I receive confirmation through the above information requested. Please also direct any future correspondence to me in writing.

Sincerely,

Ambulance chaser (name changed to protect the guilty)

Here's my response:

Dear Ambulance Chaser,

Our lease agreement allows you the use of the property at 123 Straight St in exchange for rent. That's my authority.

The landscaping improvements were requested by you and approved by the owner. You specifically told us - in writing - that you would pay for these improvements yourself. Perhaps the attached agreement signed by you will jog your memory.

I'm a simple guy and don't feel threatened by legal jargon or $5 words. Pay according to our agreement or we can finish this discussion in front of Judge Hammer. Perhaps he'll be more easily swayed by your legal gymnastics.

Best regards,

Nate

Needless to say, he paid and he stayed for another six months.

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8 Reply

David Dachtera

Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Maciej G.:

Hello everyone

I am relatively new to being a landlord and today I had very unusual situation that I don't exactly know how to tackle.

I own a 3 story building with poor attic insulation and during the summer the attic gets very hot, since there is only one window the tenant can only have 1 AC unit that can't cool the entire place down. Recently the thermostat was showing 90 degrees for couple of days and tenant was very upset about it (understandably) and informed me about the excessive heat in the unit. I immediately called the contractors to see what can be done, and decided that best option would be to insulate the attic. I was very fast and scheduled 3 contractors the next day. This job should cost me about 1400$ for blown insulation. Later I called an HVAC guy for estimate and he said to install central AC it would cost about 3500 - 4000$. I went to talk to the tenant today and he was very angry at me, and started to make threats. He said he used to be a lawyer with big experience but had to quit due to his temper. He later said that he wants to sue me for 20 000 $ an amount that will include move out/in fees, lawyer fees, days off he took when contractors were doing their job and place was too hot. He demanded of me to install central AC or he will have to take this matter to court. When I went to see him today after part of the place was already insulated he gave me all this talk and under the pressure I said I would waive the next month's rent, and if the place is still hot we will install central AC.

I wanted to ask more experienced landlords how should I have handled this situation. Does the tenant have basis to sue me if I do everything I can to fix the issue ASAP. Last question I have is that what should happen in a situation where tenant asks for upgrades that I cannot afford ?

Is there any place within the unit where you could add a through-the-wall A/C unit such as a ductless system or a window unit in a wall sleeve?

1 Reply

Drew SygitBusiness Member

Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 13k+ posts · 9k+ votes

5y

Wow, so many of you responders are obviously NOT taking the time to read the expert responses!

Additionally, many of you are shoing you have no clue how to manage tenants! Let's just hope none of your tenants read your response and figure out what a pushover and easy target you are.

Not aware of any laws in Chicago or Illinois that require a landlord to provide a property with a MAXIMUM temperature. Many states in the south have these requirements. Most states in the north only have laws requiring the landlord to provide enough heat to keep a minimum temp.

So, tell the tenant the deal is off and you'll see him in court if he doesn't pay.

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Tenant threatens to sue me for $20 000

Tenant threatens to sue me for $20 000

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